[DE/DK/SE/NO] Direct trains Berlin–Oslo

[rvdborgt]

AFAIK they are not even trying to get the Talgo certified in the Netherlands anymore at the moment.

I haven't heard anything about that, just silence. If they've indeed given up, then that begs the question what they're going to do about the capacity shortage that exists because of the current stopgap measure of using ICE sets.

 

[DanielB]

That's exactly what I meant with not trying, despite the route being in desperate need for more capacity. (I even noticed trains being almost fully reserved for the end of July when making my own reservations almost three months in advance)

 

[Austriantrain]

It's a good question. I think Berlin continues to have the biggest cultural/social draw for Nordic tourists. Hamburg is a good interchange for the west/south. DSB might have something planned, but I think they will need to get all the Talgos operational and reliable before they announce anything more.

Not that I would have the answer, but maybe train capacity on the inner-German segments is also an issue (together with track capacity issues that preclude/slow unattractively down additional services)?. Does DB have a modern train that can go to Scandinavia, apart from the ICE-L? Would that have enough capacity for domestic demand between Cologne and Hamburg? As far as I can see, it's mostly 13-car-ICE4 that serve the existing trains?

 

[doc7austin]

What I would like to add.
It is planed that both DB, DSB, and CD train serve the important Hamburg-Copenhagen route.
Usually, state operators hate to pay hard cash between each other. It is more preferred that the deployment of each other rakes in another country is balancing each other out ("Kilometerausgleich"). Hence, I reason that DB Fernverkehr is offering its kilometers to run in Denmark with its own rolling stock (the ICE L).

 

[Amalie]

Not that I would have the answer, but maybe train capacity on the inner-German segments is also an issue (together with track capacity issues that preclude/slow unattractively down additional services)?. Does DB have a modern train that can go to Scandinavia, apart from the ICE-L? Would that have enough capacity for domestic demand between Cologne and Hamburg? As far as I can see, it's mostly 13-car-ICE4 that serve the existing trains?

It wouldn’t be practical, but barring the installation of extra safety systems and certification (which the ICE-L would also need anyway), they could probably use ICE 3 Neos too.

 

[43096]

It wouldn’t be practical, but barring the installation of extra safety systems and certification (which the ICE-L would also need anyway), they could probably use ICE 3 Neos too.

True, but the ICE-L has a head start as the DSB equivalent is authorised for Denmark already.

There's also the question of whether using 320km/h ICE3neos is a good use of those sets given the lack of very high speed running on the route.

 

[JonasB]

There's also the question of whether using 320km/h ICE3neos is a good use of those sets given the lack of very high speed running on the route.

Probably not, although is hasn't stopped DB from using them on Berlin–Amsterdam. It's a pity the ICE4 is 15 kV only.

 

[DanielB]

Probably not, although is hasn't stopped DB from using them on Berlin–Amsterdam.

There it's probably only because there are no alternatives available (NS has nothing capable of getting past Bad Bentheim, DB only has ICE3neo as NL-capable stock).

Obviously the considerations will have been different for keeping an existing route served compared to an entirely new route. For the latter there is also the option of not introducing it.

 

[43096]

There it's probably only because there are no alternatives available (NS has nothing capable of getting past Bad Bentheim, DB only has ICE3neo as NL-capable stock).

There was an option but DB chose not to continue with it - IC1 stock and Vectrons.

 

[NCT]

Cologne - Hamburg seems to be uniformly (I say uniformly, I've only looked at half a day's worth of trains in one direction) 13-car ICE4s (374m long). An ICE-L is only 236m so wouldn't provide enough capacity. An ICE-4 north of Hamburg would be capacity overkill and wouldn't be technically compatible anyway.

Cologne - Hamburg trains originate from Switzerland or Munich, which are already ~10-hour runs. Sending them further north would make the services too long and unreliable. While I'm not a fan of the Koeln Hbf mid-service reversal myself at least this is a consistent all-day pattern.

Anyway, back to Berlin - Oslo ...

 

[route101]

Cologne - Hamburg seems to be uniformly (I say uniformly, I've only looked at half a day's worth of trains in one direction) 13-car ICE4s (374m long). An ICE-L is only 236m so wouldn't provide enough capacity. An ICE-4 north of Hamburg would be capacity overkill and wouldn't be technically compatible anyway.

Cologne - Hamburg trains originate from Switzerland or Munich, which are already ~10-hour runs. Sending them further north would make the services too long and unreliable. While I'm not a fan of the Koeln Hbf mid-service reversal myself at least this is a consistent all-day pattern.

Anyway, back to Berlin - Oslo ...

Speaking of Koln, not all all services reverse there.

 

[JonasB]

Cologne - Hamburg seems to be uniformly (I say uniformly, I've only looked at half a day's worth of trains in one direction) 13-car ICE4s (374m long). An ICE-L is only 236m so wouldn't provide enough capacity. An ICE-4 north of Hamburg would be capacity overkill and wouldn't be technically compatible anyway.

I'm not sure an ICE4 would be too much capacity north of Hamburg, at least not in the summer. The trains can be pretty full. DB runs a once daily ICE between Frankfurt and Padborg in the summer using a 7 car ICE T, and if the trains could run on 25 kV there is probably enough demand to extend them to Copenhagen.

 

[Austriantrain]

I'm not sure an ICE4 would be too much capacity north of Hamburg, at least not in the summer. The trains can be pretty full. DB runs a once daily ICE between Frankfurt and Padborg in the summer using a 7 car ICE T, and if the trains could run on 25 kV there is probably enough demand to extend them to Copenhagen.

At the moment, I would think going towards hourly would be better than longer trains.

 

[JonasB]

At the moment, I would think going towards hourly would be better than longer trains.

I won't argue with that! If there is enough capacity on the line for it.

 

[andersj]

This summer there are hourly trains during the morning going from Copenhagen to Hamburg (including a connecting Copenhagen-Padborg train to the ICE-T Frankfurt service) and during lunchtime going from Hamburg til Copenhagen.
From Copenhagen
5:22 (seasonal train)
6:22 (RJ to Prague)
7:22 (seasonal train)
8:22
9:22 (to Padborg, connecting to ICE 1187)
10:22 (RJ to Prague)

and then every two hours until 18:22 + 23:35 to Prague (seasonal)

From Hamburg Hbf
6:50
8:55
9:47 (ICE 1186 to Padborg, connecting train to Copenhagen)
10:53
11:52 (seasonal train)
12:28 (RJ from Prague, via Altona)
13:50 (seasonal train)
14:53
16:28 (RJ from Prague, via Altona)
18:50
22:28 (RJ from Prague, via Altona, seasonal).