Stadler preffered bidder for new Enterprise

[zwk500]

Will the electric mode be able to work on both the current 1500VDC and the planned 25KV AC for north of Drogheda?

In earlier reporting, it was mentioned that the Diesel system would need to be removed to allow for the 25KV AC Equipment. However it is designed for such an event.

On delivery, it will be 1.5KV DC, Diesel, Battery.
Once 25KV OLE is in place it can be converted to 1.5KV DC, 25KV AC, Battery.

 

[TheWierdOne]

In earlier reporting, it was mentioned that the Diesel system would need to be removed to allow for the 25KV AC Equipment. However it is designed for such an event.

On delivery, it will be 1.5KV DC, Diesel, Battery.
Once 25KV OLE is in place it can be converted to 1.5KV DC, 25KV AC, Battery.

What is the news on electrification in Northern Ireland? Plans and talk have been floating around for years but it always seems to be a few years away.

 

[zwk500]

What is the news on electrification in Northern Ireland? Plans and talk have been floating around for years but it always seems to be a few years away.

I don't know any firm information. There's a lot of strategies floating around.

 

[bangor-toad]

As zwk500 says, there are a lot of strategies out there.
They are all actually quite consistent with electrification being an aspirational target and a timeline given of typically in 10 to 15 years time. That gives plenty of time to prepare a new strategy resetting the date with remarkably similar timelines...

As for now, the NI Class 3000 and Class 4000 units work well. They're comfortable enough for commuting and the reliability seems good - it's very rare that a service is cancelled. There really isn't any push to even consider replacement trains of any type. Whilst this stable and pleasant enough situation continues I cannot see any major capital investment in electrification.

Looking forward to the 2040's the trains will start to show their age and replacement may be considered. That'll be the window for any electrification. Personally I think it would be, at best, charging islands around the network and a load of BEMUs rather than full, continuous electrification.

Cheers,
Mr Toad

 

[Backroom_boy]

In earlier reporting, it was mentioned that the Diesel system would need to be removed to allow for the 25KV AC Equipment. However it is designed for such an event.

On delivery, it will be 1.5KV DC, Diesel, Battery.
Once 25KV OLE is in place it can be converted to 1.5KV DC, 25KV AC, Battery.

Would be interesting to know which bit of the route is going to be on the battery

 

[Snow1964]

Would be interesting to know which bit of the route is going to be on the battery

The plan is for battery in Belfast Central area and York Road depot areas.

Diesel north of Drogheda,
1.5kv dc electric Drogheda - Dublin

Two diesel engines (in end power car, not underfloor), generally only one needed for normal speeds, but provision to swap diesels for pantograph and transformer for 25kv ac at later date.

Still an Ireland plan (by 2050) to fully electrify through to Belfast, and open/reopen the Newry-Hillsborough direct route, and electrify via Portadown, plus open and electrify Portadown - Derry/Londonderry (via Omagh and Strabane), but is dependent on Northern Ireland funding

 

[MarkyT]

The plan is for battery in Belfast Central area and York Road depot areas.

Diesel north of Drogheda,
1.5kv dc electric Drogheda - Dublin

Two diesel engines (in end power car, not underfloor), generally only one needed for normal speeds, but provision to swap diesels for pantograph and transformer for 25kv ac at later date.

Still an Ireland plan (by 2050) to fully electrify through to Belfast, and open/reopen the Newry-Hillsborough direct route, and electrify via Portadown, plus open and electrify Portadown - Derry/Londonderry (via Omagh and Strabane), but is dependent on Northern Ireland funding

Ireland once again leading the way, first with level boarding new DART trains. Now, a rolling stock order that also delivers that and can cope flexibly with the uncertain timelines of a nonetheless planned strategy for mainline electrification. Many useful lessons here for Great Britain. Thinking Scotland, Chiltern, Cross Country. Batteries will also remain useful for emergencies and depot shunting following completion of wiring. Also future boundaries between AC and DC areas can be clean, with a substantial gap between energised wires of the different supplies and their conflicting earthing and return current strategies; trains will be able to proceed under power as necessary across the gaps using stored energy. Batteries may also be able to help regulate peak demand from these express trains on the DC section, perhaps being able to maintain full performance even when the supply is heavily loaded and dragged down briefly by other trains accelerating or hill climbing in the substation locality, and to better manage regen braking energy if the local substation area is not receptive and is unable to export to the wider grid.

 

[TheWierdOne]

Ireland once again leading the way, first with level boarding new DART trains. Now, a rolling stock order that also delivers that and can cope flexibly with the uncertain timelines of a nonetheless planned strategy for mainline electrification. Many useful lessons here for Great Britain. Thinking Scotland, Chiltern, Cross Country. Batteries will also remain useful for emergencies and depot shunting following completion of wiring. Also future boundaries between AC and DC areas can be clean, with a substantial gap between energised wires of the different supplies and their conflicting earthing and return current strategies; trains will be able to proceed under power as necessary across the gaps using stored energy. Batteries may also be able to help regulate peak demand from these express trains on the DC section, perhaps being able to maintain full performance even when the supply is heavily loaded and dragged down briefly by other trains accelerating or hill climbing in the substation locality, and to better manage regen braking energy if the local substation area is not receptive and is unable to export to the wider grid.

As repeatedly proven, the answer to any mainline non-high-speed rolling stock question: just buy FLIRTS

 

[craigybagel]

What is the news on electrification in Northern Ireland? Plans and talk have been floating around for years but it always seems to be a few years away.

I don't know any firm information. There's a lot of strategies floating around.

As zwk500 says, there are a lot of strategies out there.
They are all actually quite consistent with electrification being an aspirational target and a timeline given of typically in 10 to 15 years time. That gives plenty of time to prepare a new strategy resetting the date with remarkably similar timelines...

As for now, the NI Class 3000 and Class 4000 units work well. They're comfortable enough for commuting and the reliability seems good - it's very rare that a service is cancelled. There really isn't any push to even consider replacement trains of any type. Whilst this stable and pleasant enough situation continues I cannot see any major capital investment in electrification.

Unfortunately, you've got to deal with Northern Irish politics first. Stormont will have probably collapsed another 5 times over increasingly petty disputes before someone is brave enough to put forward a railway investment plan all sides can agree on.

 

[mmh]

As repeatedly proven, the answer to any mainline non-high-speed rolling stock question: just buy FLIRTS

Stadler will happily build you a rubbish train if you ask them to though, given the class 777. (Yes I know they're not a FLIRT, but they very much show Stadlers aren't all great).

 

[Snow1964]

As repeatedly proven, the answer to any mainline non-high-speed rolling stock question: just buy FLIRTS

Doesn't have to be Flirts (which I think is a Stadler marketing name) as similar types of trains are available from multiple manufacturers.

Just the UK tends to micro-manage its specs (rather than just specify minimum standards) so what could be UK loading gauge version of existing European design that is proven, becomes something fitted with all sorts of bespoke untested equipment and software.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just the UK tends to micro-manage its specs (rather than just specify minimum standards) so what could be UK loading gauge version of existing European design that is proven, becomes something fitted with all sorts of bespoke untested equipment and software.

I'd probably say the 777 is highly custom whereas the other UK FLIRTs are indeed just a scaled down Euro FLIRT. This one looks to be the latter, albeit with a custom element of having a power car at one end rather than in the middle, something they offer but wouldn't do by default.

The 777 isn't a FLIRT officially, but it does appear to use FLIRT body components rather than METRO ones (e.g. the large rubber-surrounded windows). Thus it looks very different to other METRO products.

 

[JonasB]

As for now, the NI Class 3000 and Class 4000 units work well. They're comfortable enough for commuting and the reliability seems good - it's very rare that a service is cancelled. There really isn't any push to even consider replacement trains of any type. Whilst this stable and pleasant enough situation continues I cannot see any major capital investment in electrification.

Looking forward to the 2040's the trains will start to show their age and replacement may be considered. That'll be the window for any electrification. Personally I think it would be, at best, charging islands around the network and a load of BEMUs rather than full, continuous electrification.

While electrification certainly costs money, electric trains are cheaper to operate. And when I look for trains I see six trains per hour between Belfast and Bangor during rush hour, it's in my opinion really strange to run that service with diesel trains. And it's such a short route and frequent service that battery trains seems like the wrong choice.

 

[AlastairFraser]

While electrification certainly costs money, electric trains are cheaper to operate. And when I look for trains I see six trains per hour between Belfast and Bangor during rush hour, it's in my opinion really strange to run that service with diesel trains. And it's such a short route and frequent service that battery trains seems like the wrong choice.

The problem is having to accommodate a separate fleet, given the suburban lines like Belfast-Larne/Portadown/Bangor (plus potentially Antrim via Belfast International) use the same fleet as the longer distance services to simplify maintenance and operations.

Electrifying the whole way to Derry/Londonderry, Newry and Portrush wouldn't present good value for money at the moment, especially when you could spend the money on the proposed new line to Derry/Londonderry via Dungannon, Omagh and Strabane or reopening Antrim to Lisburn and increase passenger numbers much more significantly, not to mention the wider connectivity and regeneration benefits of putting regional NI towns back on the rail network.

I think Dublin - Belfast - Derry/Londonderry + the proposed second route to Derry/Londonderry deserve 25kV OHLE at some point personally, but most of the rest of the NI rail network has a max line speed less than 90mph and frequent stops, it's well suited for batteries if you exclude the first 2 routes.