Named passenger trains, please help

[BR Traction]

I would be really grateful if anyone could be please help me with the following ;
The Welshman, LMS from Euston to Holyhead. The date the service commenced.
The Harrogate Sunday Pullman. BR from Kings Cross. The year it commenced. All I have is 1950’s.
Thank you to everyone who reads this and may be able to help.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Various contemporary local newspapers make reference to the "Harrogate Sunday Pullman" being added to LNER's summer services and starting as early as July 1927. Express train from Kings Cross to Harrogate (via Leeds).

 

[gazthomas]

The Welshman was introduced in 1927 as well

 

[Harvester]

A ‘Harrogate Pullman’ was introduced in July 1923 running daily to Newcastle via Leeds (Central) and Harrogate. This service was extended to Glasgow in July 1925, and was a forerunner of the ‘Queen of Scots’ It seems that from 1927 the spare Pullman stock was used on Sundays, on a Kings Cross to Harrogate return working, establishing the ’Harrogate Sunday Pullman’.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Surely 'The Welshman' was Euston-Pwllheli?
I returned from a family holiday in 1963 on it!

 

[Gloster]

Surely 'The Welshman' was Euston-Pwllheli?
I returned from a family holiday in 1963 on it!

The Summer 1961 timetable shows it having portions to Llandudno, Pwllheli and Portmadoc, the latter two via Afonwen. There were also coaches, presumably including the Restaurant Car, detached and attached at Bangor.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

The Summer 1961 timetable shows it having portions to Llandudno, Pwllheli and Portmadoc, the latter two via Afonwen. There were also coaches, presumably including the Restaurant Car, detached and attached at Bangor.

Thanks,that's what I thought, didn't think my memory had failed me!

 

[BR Traction]

Did a portion of the train continue to Holyhead ?

 

[nw1]

The Summer 1961 timetable shows it having portions to Llandudno, Pwllheli and Portmadoc, the latter two via Afonwen. There were also coaches, presumably including the Restaurant Car, detached and attached at Bangor.

As an aside, that was the spelling back then I presume? Was definitely Porthmadog by 1979, when I remember going on a primary-school trip ostensibly to ride the Ffestiniog Railway, though we couldn't for some reason. Not sure why, fully booked?

A related point admittedly OT, when did Conwy become Conwy in English, rather than the archaic "Conway"? I swear I remember seeing "Conway" in 1978 outside Chester, though it's possible my childish brain may have seen Conwy and understood it to be Conway.

 

[Gloster]

Did a portion of the train continue to Holyhead ?

The weekday train appears to have had a portion to and from Holyhead (NOW A CORRECTION), and there was also one on Saturday, but no Llandudno portion on Saturday.

As an aside, that was the spelling back then I presume? Was definitely Porthmadog by 1979, when I remember going on a primary-school trip ostensibly to ride the Ffestiniog Railway, though we couldn't for some reason. Not sure why, fully booked?

I used the spellings in the timetable I used.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

A related point admittedly OT, when did Conwy become Conwy in English, rather than the archaic "Conway"? I swear I remember seeing "Conway" in 1978 outside Chester, though it's possible my childish brain may have seen Conwy and understood it to be Conway.

Upon reopening in 1987 (on or around Saturday 27th June 1987). The station had been closed for 21 years between 1966 + 1987.

 

[The exile]

The station had been closed for 21 years between 1966 + 1987.

Had it remained open, it would have probably have been changed in the early 1970s - as was Llanelly, for example (and probably one or two others where all but the most pig-headed Anglophile would have no difficulty realising where they were from the Welsh spelling - Porthmadog being one, of course).

 

[Mcr Warrior]

As an aside, that was the spelling back then I presume? Was definitely Porthmadog by 1979,

Portmadoc (station) was renamed as Porthmadog in May 1975.

 

[BeijingDave]

As an aside, that was the spelling back then I presume? Was definitely Porthmadog by 1979, when I remember going on a primary-school trip ostensibly to ride the Ffestiniog Railway, though we couldn't for some reason. Not sure why, fully booked?

A related point admittedly OT, when did Conwy become Conwy in English, rather than the archaic "Conway"? I swear I remember seeing "Conway" in 1978 outside Chester, though it's possible my childish brain may have seen Conwy and understood it to be Conway.

Conway is still written on a road sign on the Lache/Handbridge roundabout (don't know its proper name). Noticed it myself.

 

[30907]

As an aside, that was the spelling back then I presume? Was definitely Porthmadog by 1979, when I remember going on a primary-school trip ostensibly to ride the Ffestiniog Railway, though we couldn't for some reason. Not sure why, fully booked?

The first spelling change I recall was Barmouth Jn to Morfa Mawddach which W.... says was changed in 1960, I would have said 1962ish. Others were piecemeal IIRC until the present bilingual policy was introduced.

A related point admittedly OT, when did Conwy become Conwy in English, rather than the archaic "Conway"?

Has that actually happened?

 

[Gloster]

Upon reopening in 1987 (on or around Saturday 27th June 1987). The station had been closed for 21 years between 1966 + 1987.

According to Quick’s Chronology the official opening was on the 27th and the actual (presumably first regular train) was 29th.

The first spelling change I recall was Barmouth Jn to Morfa Mawddach which W.... says was changed in 1960, I would have said 1962ish. Others were piecemeal IIRC until the present bilingual policy was introduced.

According to Quick the station was renamed on 13 June 1960, based on an entry in Railway Magazine. The signalbox appears to have remained as Barmouth Jcn until renamed Morfa Mawddach 17 January 1962, according to Cooke’s Diagrams (Section 62).

 

[The exile]

The first spelling change I recall was Barmouth Jn to Morfa Mawddach which W.... says was changed in 1960, I would have said 1962ish. Others were piecemeal IIRC until the present bilingual policy was introduced

Though that one is hardly a mere spelling change (however politically charged those were, the change was visually minor - which is why they were done so early) - more of a complete renaming (and switch of language in the process).

 

[nw1]

Has that actually happened?

It's always IIRC been referred to as Conwy in English since at least the 80s, but if you look at older maps it's referred to as Conway. The reopened station was always Conwy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2026 ==

Conway is still written on a road sign on the Lache/Handbridge roundabout (don't know its proper name). Noticed it myself.

The one I remember was on the A55 Chester bypass in 1978, and read "Conway 40, Bangor 55". As a child my main thought on seeing the sign, and why it stuck in my mind, was just how far away these mysterious places were. At that point I was used to seeing only distances of up to around 20 miles.

Almost certain it was still spelt Conway.