[DE/DK/SE/NO] Direct trains Berlin–Oslo

[JonasB]

I haven't seen a source in English, but it's widely reported today that DB plans to launch direct trains between Berlin and Oslo, in cooperation with DSB and Vy. Starting in 2028 there will be two daily pairs between the cities, a journey that will take 14-15 hours from end to end. ICE Ls will be used for the trains.

 

[Gloster]

Four intermediate stops in Norway, six in Sweden, five in Denmark and one in Germany. It will be all year round.

 

[NCT]

Goodness me! Interesting to see how the timetabling works - most likely in alternate hours to the Berliner RJs?

 

[JonasB]

Goodness me! Interesting to see how the timetabling works - most likely in alternate hours to the Berliner RJs?

That will be very interesting to see!

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Blimey - back to the good old days when railway operators co-operated. It is a long way round via the Great Belt and will require several loco changes en-route presumably?

I recall in the '80s there were through sleeping cars Oslo - Berlin - Moscow via Trelleborg / Sassnitz, and Copenhagen - Berlin - Moscow via Gedser / Warnemünde.

 

[Amalie]

I’m curious why they’ve chosen to make these 14-15(!) hour long day trains, assuming no delays in Germany, as opposed to night trains.

 

[Gloster]

I’m curious why they’ve chosen to make these 14-15(!) hour long day trains, assuming no delays in Germany, as opposed to night trains.

I would suspect that there won’t be that many journeys all the way through, but it would be difficult to find a night train timing that didn’t give either a too early or too late start or finish for most intermediate journeys. This way you make lot of long-ish intermediate trips convenient.

 

[JonasB]

I’m curious why they’ve chosen to make these 14-15(!) hour long day trains, assuming no delays in Germany, as opposed to night trains.

As a night train it's great for those travelling between Oslo/Gothenburg and Hamburg/Berlin, but as a day train it's useful for many passengers. I don't think there will be many people on it travelling all the way from Oslo to Berlin but it offers direct journeys Oslo-Copenhagen, Trollhättan-Odense, Halmstad-Hamburg and many other combinations.

 

[popeter45]

Goodness me! Interesting to see how the timetabling works - most likely in alternate hours to the Berliner RJs?

like the Berliners, i suspect they will replace an ECE

with how much other carriers are entering the Hamburg-Copenhagen market makes you wonder what DSB will do with its Talgos now?

 

[43096]

Blimey - back to the good old days when railway operators co-operated. It is a long way round via the Great Belt and will require several loco changes en-route presumably?

Why would it need several locomotive changes? Presumably the intention is for the ICE-L locos to be cleared throughout (good luck with that), or there are Vectrons available that can run throughout already available.

 

[andersj]

like the Berliners, i suspect they will replace an ECE

with how much other carriers are entering the Hamburg-Copenhagen market makes you wonder what DSB will do with its Talgos now?

Short term DSB will use many Talgos for national services to compensate for the Alstom Coradia Stream "IC5" delays. From December 2026 or early 2027 there will be multiple daily express trains between Copenhagen and Aarhus with Talgo's.

Aarhus-Hamburg will also get a revival next summer with Talgo's.

 

[JonasB]

with how much other carriers are entering the Hamburg-Copenhagen market makes you wonder what DSB will do with its Talgos now?

So far they haven't been that reliable, so DSB might need to keep a few as spares. There has also been rumours about DSB sending them further south than Germany.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 May 2026 ==

Aarhus-Hamburg will also get a revival next summer with Talgo's.

Do you have a source for that? I've been trying to find information about the Århus-Hamburg route without much success.

 

[jamesontheroad]

So, if all goes to plan, in 5-10 years we might have:

- DSB Talgos Copenhagen-Hamburg, hourly* (i.e. when ⬇️ aren't running)
- DSB Talgos Aarhus-Hamburg, less-than-hourly
- DB Talgos Berlin-Oslo, twice daily
- ČD RailJet Prague-Copenhagen, 2-3 times daily
- Snälltåget Stockholm-Hamburg, daily
- Snälltåget night train Oslo-/Stockholm-Hamburg-Berlin
- RDC EuroNight Stockholm-Hamburg
- And one day, maybe, SJ Delta Stockholm-Hamburg-¿Berlin? (unknown frequency)

Quite an improvement on the 3-5 DSB IC3 per a day when I immigrated to Sweden by train in 2019!

 

[Austriantrain]

I’m curious why they’ve chosen to make these 14-15(!) hour long day trains, assuming no delays in Germany, as opposed to night trains.

It‘s a lot easier to run long-distance daytime trains economically than night trains. Much higher capacity und you will get a lot of of custom between intermediate stations. They won’t primarily carry Berliners to Oslo.

 

[doc7austin]

- RDC EuroNight Stockholm-Hamburg -> I doubt that train would survive beyond 2027.

The DB Talgo will most likely complement the 2-3 CD Comfortjet journeys between Berlin and Copenhagen, allowing for a 6am'ish departure from Berlin towards Copenhagen/Oslo.

 

[RailWonderer]

I'm suprised they're starting these services before the Fehmarn tunnel is built, which they think will only be operational for trains in 2032. 4.5 hours will be cut to 2.5 hours Copenhagen - Hamburg when it opens which will be a massive gain for all the other through journeys which I'm sure will help these services in the longer term.

 

[doc7austin]

Well, I think the trend in Central and Northern Europe is still strong for people to avoid the stresses of shorthaul flying (security theater, weather woes, baggage restrictions, space constraints etc.). So it's smart to cater to these market demands - and not wait until the mid-2030s.
The big big advantage that one train covers multiple interesting city-pairs (e.g. Hamburg-Gothenburg, Berlin-Copenhagen, Copenhagen-Oslo).

 

[Austriantrain]

Well, I think the trend in Central and Northern Europe is still strong for people to avoid the stresses of shorthaul flying (security theater, weather woes, baggage restrictions, space constraints etc.). So it's smart to cater to these market demands - and not wait until the mid-2030s.
The big big advantage that one train covers multiple interesting city-pairs (e.g. Hamburg-Gothenburg, Berlin-Copenhagen, Copenhagen-Oslo).

That trend was always there in Central, if not Northern Europe. It was the rest of the continent that thought they had reinvented the wheel before realising that demand for long-distance day trains is there and strongly increasing.

This trend is however much easier to accommodate on what are mostly classic, medium high-speed networks. A 330 kph-train is simply a very expensive kit to run a large part of its way at 160 or 200 kph maximum speed. Paris - Cologne - Copenhagen is still a long way off.

 

[kaspertron]

I’m curious why they’ve chosen to make these 14-15(!) hour long day trains, assuming no delays in Germany, as opposed to night trains.

Of the 3 companies involved, two don't own any night train carriages (DB and DSB). Vy own night train carriages for domestic Norwegian use, but don't have any going spare as far as I know.

The obvious follow-up question is "why haven't any of them ordered any night train carriages" which is a more difficult one to answer. But one way of thinking of it is that from the perspective of the train companies night trains have only recently become popular again after decades of decline. For the train companies it's impossible to know if this is a temporary blip or if night trains are back on the agenda for good, which makes them hesitant to place a very expensive order for new carriages which were need heavy usage for decades to break even.

DSB and DB have absolutely no interest in running a night train ever again. But I wouldn't say it was impossible that Vy at some point put in an order for some new night trains to get Norwegians down to continental Europe is a climate friendly way.

 

[doc7austin]

DSB and DB have probably followed the news around ÖBB Nightjet - the fact how much money you can loose with night trains.

 

[kaspertron]

I haven't seen the news about ÖBB Nightjet (do you have a link?) but if it is current news I don't think it's had any impact on DSB and DB, they've exited the night train market long ago. DB stopped running night trains about 10 years ago, in fact selling a lot of the carriages to ÖBB.

 

[Austriantrain]

I haven't seen the news about ÖBB Nightjet (do you have a link?) but if it is current news I don't think it's had any impact on DSB and DB, they've exited the night train market long ago. DB stopped running night trains about 10 years ago, in fact selling a lot of the carriages to ÖBB.

It didn’t and it doesn’t. DB never had any intention to reenter the night train market, except for cooperating on NJ services.

And I don’t believe there is any kind of information that ÖBB has lost „much money“ on NJ. It is not a cash earner, granted, and in hindsight, the new NJ sets in their current form surely were a mistake (also because of their indirect impact on the „not very fit for purpose“ RJ2 sets).

 

[mad_rich]

Is there any reason why all of these services - day and night - are focussing on the East?

Surely there's a market for Frankfurt/ Cologne and other points West to be connected to Scandinavia?

 

[jamesontheroad]

Is there any reason why all of these services - day and night - are focussing on the East?

Surely there's a market for Frankfurt/ Cologne and other points West to be connected to Scandinavia?

It's a good question. I think Berlin continues to have the biggest cultural/social draw for Nordic tourists. Hamburg is a good interchange for the west/south. DSB might have something planned, but I think they will need to get all the Talgos operational and reliable before they announce anything more.

 

[rvdborgt]

IIRC DSB also had a plan for Copenhagen-Amsterdam, but maybe they'll wait until their Talgo sets are working properly.

 

[43096]

IIRC DSB also had a plan for Copenhagen-Amsterdam, but maybe they'll wait until their Talgo sets are working properly.

They’ll need a bit more than the Talgo sets working properly - the Vectrons that power them are AC only.

 

[Amalie]

IIRC DSB also had a plan for Copenhagen-Amsterdam, but maybe they'll wait until their Talgo sets are working properly.

They did. I suspect that they were hoping that DB’s (ICE-L) Talgo would get certified first for The Netherlands. In any case, the certification of the DB Talgos are delayed and had concerns regarding axle weights for Dutch tracks. The latter concern would also apply to DSB’s Talgo.

 

[30907]

It's a good question. I think Berlin continues to have the biggest cultural/social draw for Nordic tourists. Hamburg is a good interchange for the west/south.

And the extension to Berlin is barely 2h so the trains etc can do it within a day. Amsterdam or Frankfurt are pushing it until the Fehmarnbelt route opens

 

[NCT]

Hamburg - Cologne is more than double the time of Hamburg - Berlin.

 

[DanielB]

Hamburg - Cologne is more than double the time of Hamburg - Berlin.

Though for Copenhagen - Amsterdam the location of Cologne is way to far south, such a connection would continue west from Osnabrück.

I suspect that they were hoping that DB’s (ICE-L) Talgo would get certified first for The Netherlands. In any case, the certification of the DB Talgos are delayed and had concerns regarding axle weights for Dutch tracks.

AFAIK they are not even trying to get the Talgo certified in the Netherlands anymore at the moment.