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The Labour Party under Andy Burnham

Harpo

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I was delighted to see the Tories booted out in 2024 but I’ve been appalled by Labour’s ineptitude since.

Today shows what the public thinks about the last two years but Labour still has three years and a big majority - I sense it will still duck it up.
 
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swj99

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Quite.

The fear of the Reform bogeyman doesn't really cut through if you spend most of your time trying to ape what Reform are saying about migration and welfare benefit recipients.


But that's resulted in all the landlords selling up and so everyone who was renting is now homeless. Or something.
I don't know about all landlords, but certainly some of them are selling up. I suppose it therefore raises the very good question of who is buying them, ie private buyers who want to live there, or another buy to let landlord ?
An old friend of mine owns rental properties and sometimes when a tenant leaves, he has the place done up and then sells it. I don't know the intricate details of his business, but I would guess there is capital gains tax he'd have to pay on the sale of at least some of the properties, if he's owned them for several years and the value of the equity has increased during that time.
 

H F Stephens

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This is the reason I do not want either the Prime Minister or the Chancellor to walk away.

Quite.

Occasionally, leadership isn’t about cheerleading and flagwaving; it’s about avoiding icebergs, calming waters, steadying ships and saving lives.

Yet countless are apparently still ready to believe any rehashed hubris du jour, and stand ready to board RMS Titanic II.
 

Richard Scott

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Quite.

Occasionally, leadership isn’t about cheerleading and flagwaving; it’s about avoiding icebergs, calming waters, steadying ships and saving lives.

Yet countless are apparently still ready to believe any rehashed hubris du jour, and stand ready to board RMS Titanic II.
In that case we still don't the have right people in the job.
 

The Ham

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In that case we still don't the have right people in the job.

Which comes down to who would be the right people and how much of a change would it create (positive and negative) to get them there.

Are we taking a new general election so it's (say) Reform or the Greens?

Are we taking a change at the top of Labour and potentially taking time away from focusing on cost of living, USA, Iran, and Ukraine.

Of those last 4 I'm not sure that anyone else would be significantly different with Iran or Ukraine (as generally the political classes are aligned with the population).

The USA, again being told what we were told about the Falklands isn't likely to change much regardless as to who's in charge.

Cost of living is likely the significant one, so what are others suggesting with that. Other than drilling for more oil which will still be sold on the global market vs action which removed costs on the 1st April from my actual electcity bill, there's not a lot of cut through on other measures from others.

We don't like:
Being part of the EU
Johnson
Truss
Starmer

Isn't necessarily a good reason to just ditch them without knowing what the alternative is and what the implications ofchange might be.

Unfortunately, it does appear that lesson maybe slow in being learnt.
 

johntea

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Kier has decided Gordon Brown and Harriet Harman will help matters...just double checking we're in May 2026 still!
 

Richard Scott

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Which comes down to who would be the right people and how much of a change would it create (positive and negative) to get them there.

Are we taking a new general election so it's (say) Reform or the Greens?

Are we taking a change at the top of Labour and potentially taking time away from focusing on cost of living, USA, Iran, and Ukraine.

Of those last 4 I'm not sure that anyone else would be significantly different with Iran or Ukraine (as generally the political classes are aligned with the population).

The USA, again being told what we were told about the Falklands isn't likely to change much regardless as to who's in charge.

Cost of living is likely the significant one, so what are others suggesting with that. Other than drilling for more oil which will still be sold on the global market vs action which removed costs on the 1st April from my actual electcity bill, there's not a lot of cut through on other measures from others.

We don't like:
Being part of the EU
Johnson
Truss
Starmer

Isn't necessarily a good reason to just ditch them without knowing what the alternative is and what the implications ofchange might be.

Unfortunately, it does appear that lesson maybe slow in being learnt.
Don't disagree, problem with current crop of politicians is, apart from Farage, they don't have a vision and keep changing their minds. They're more interested in their image than making decisions, some of which may be unpopular but necessary in the long term.
This is why Reform are, unfortunately, so popular at the moment.
 

Uncle Buck

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I have a lifelong low opinion of the Labour Party. I expected this government to do badly and it has done so.

However, I do feel that the public in this country need to have reasonable expectations.

The previous government was very unsuccessful and Labour have only been in for two years. They cannot be expected to improve everything in this time.

Moreover there have been multiple major challenges in the last decade: Brexit, covid, the Ukraine war and now the Iran war, the latter two causing energy crises. A government led by a grand coalition of Winston Churchill, Clement Attlee, Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair would have struggled with these.

In particular, lockdown was the most popular policy of all time. I remember grumbling “just wait til the bill for this has to be paid”. Now many of those who shouted loudest for longer and harder restrictions are the same people moaning the loudest about cuts to public services.

It seems that in every election the public throw a tantrum and expect the government to solve every problem. There is always a cry for an amorphous “change” and an ensuing massacre of the government’s party in local and by-elections by voters who seem to be permanently angry- no matter that they live in what is for all its flaws one of the richest countries in the world, in material conditions unimaginable to their grandparents.

It is particularly ridiculous that excellent local councils can be thrown out to “send a message” to the government in Whitehall. Maybe council elections should be non-partisan?

No doubt in 2031 we will be reading stories about prime minister Farage coming under pressure to resign after massive losses in favourable councils.

As I say, I do not support this government and I think many of its errors are self-inflicted, but I do think that there is a great lack of seriousness and sense of entitlement among much of the population. In a democracy, the majority get the government they deserve.
 

Oxfordblues

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What has irritated me over the years is those little men lurking in the background, telling prime ministers what to do but keeping their heads down. Alistair Campbell urging Tony Blair to go to war, that dreadful Dominic Cummings standing-in for Boris Johnson when he was indisposed and the awful Morgan McSweeney manipulating Keir Starmer to appoint the oleaginous oik Peter Mandelson. These Rasputin figures are never elected but hold real power. At least Gordon Brown is someone we know a bit about.
 

Purple Train

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I have a lifelong low opinion of the Labour Party. I expected this government to do badly and it has done so.

However, I do feel that the public in this country need to have reasonable expectations.

The previous government was very unsuccessful and Labour have only been in for two years. They cannot be expected to improve everything in this time.

Moreover there have been multiple major challenges in the last decade: Brexit, covid, the Ukraine war and now the Iran war, the latter two causing energy crises. A government led by a grand coalition of Winston Churchill, Clement Attlee, Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair would have struggled with these.

In particular, lockdown was the most popular policy of all time. I remember grumbling “just wait til the bill for this has to be paid”. Now many of those who shouted loudest for longer and harder restrictions are the same people moaning the loudest about cuts to public services.

It seems that in every election the public throw a tantrum and expect the government to solve every problem. There is always a cry for an amorphous “change” and an ensuing massacre of the government’s party in local and by-elections by voters who seem to be permanently angry- no matter that they live in what is for all its flaws one of the richest countries in the world, in material conditions unimaginable to their grandparents.

It is particularly ridiculous that excellent local councils can be thrown out to “send a message” to the government in Whitehall. Maybe council elections should be non-partisan?

No doubt in 2031 we will be reading stories about prime minister Farage coming under pressure to resign after massive losses in favourable councils.

As I say, I do not support this government and I think many of its errors are self-inflicted, but I do think that there is a great lack of seriousness and sense of entitlement among much of the population. In a democracy, the majority get the government they deserve.
Well said.

I don't know if I've missed anything, but I'm quite pleased at Brown and Harman being brought in. Better experienced parliamentarians than some vague "political advisor", although I do admit to being biased as I have a lot of time for both.
 

brad465

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Quick, hide the gold!
Jokes aside gold is actually at the sort of price you could sell it for, however very few would while dementia Don is in charge.

More seriously, given Labour's current low popularity, they could have appointed Attenborough as an environmental advisor in No.10 and it won't do them much good, so I wouldn't read much into how effective these appointments are just yet.
 
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The Ham

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Kier has decided Gordon Brown and Harriet Harman will help matters...just double checking we're in May 2026 still!

I thought he said he was too old for British politics and too young for American politics!

Again, putting the jokes aside, feels like the two of them should bring some stability in two areas where I suspect that they could be useful in putting a mark in the ground as to how they are different to others.

For example, not sure that Reform would appoint someone for women and girls.
 

YorkshireBear

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I have a lifelong low opinion of the Labour Party. I expected this government to do badly and it has done so.

However, I do feel that the public in this country need to have reasonable expectations.

The previous government was very unsuccessful and Labour have only been in for two years. They cannot be expected to improve everything in this time.

Moreover there have been multiple major challenges in the last decade: Brexit, covid, the Ukraine war and now the Iran war, the latter two causing energy crises. A government led by a grand coalition of Winston Churchill, Clement Attlee, Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair would have struggled with these.

In particular, lockdown was the most popular policy of all time. I remember grumbling “just wait til the bill for this has to be paid”. Now many of those who shouted loudest for longer and harder restrictions are the same people moaning the loudest about cuts to public services.

It seems that in every election the public throw a tantrum and expect the government to solve every problem. There is always a cry for an amorphous “change” and an ensuing massacre of the government’s party in local and by-elections by voters who seem to be permanently angry- no matter that they live in what is for all its flaws one of the richest countries in the world, in material conditions unimaginable to their grandparents.

It is particularly ridiculous that excellent local councils can be thrown out to “send a message” to the government in Whitehall. Maybe council elections should be non-partisan?

No doubt in 2031 we will be reading stories about prime minister Farage coming under pressure to resign after massive losses in favourable councils.

As I say, I do not support this government and I think many of its errors are self-inflicted, but I do think that there is a great lack of seriousness and sense of entitlement among much of the population. In a democracy, the majority get the government they deserve.
Very well said.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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So a stalking horse in Catherine West has appeared laying down the challenge to the cabinet to find a contender for leader by Monday otherwise she will stand

https://www.itv.com/news/2026-05-09...rine-west-bring-down-keir-starmers-leadership

Labour MP Catherine West tells me she will put herself up as a “stalking horse” candidate on Monday morning, even though supporters of Andy Burnham have asked her to hold off.

She fears there is no certainty that the Manchester mayor will get a seat in parliament and says the “current situation has to be addressed with urgency”.

The “radical change” needed by the government cannot be delayed, she told me.

She says she is nervous but has been inundated with messages of support from fellow MPs.

You have to wonder whose put her up as its gives them air cover to launch a bid without being seen to undermine Starmer directly. That said the Burnham camp must be irritated as hes not in a position to move.
 

Yew

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Well said.

I don't know if I've missed anything, but I'm quite pleased at Brown and Harman being brought in. Better experienced parliamentarians than some vague "political advisor", although I do admit to being biased as I have a lot of time for both.
So out of curiosity, what is making you think positively about Gordon Brown? The pithy take would be that yes he's experienced, but unfortunately that experience is mostly in taking Labour from in power to in opposition.
 

Bevan Price

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Unfortunately a lot of people are gullible and will vote for people / parties who claim they can make life "better". The lessons of history show that the consequences can be bad - sometimes disastrous. I don't imagine the German people realised what would happen when they voted against the failing Weimar government.
I distrust anyone who thinks that Trump-like policies might be a good idea,
 

Richard Scott

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Unfortunately a lot of people are gullible and will vote for people / parties who claim they can make life "better". The lessons of history show that the consequences can be bad - sometimes disastrous. I don't imagine the German people realised what would happen when they voted against the failing Weimar government.
I distrust anyone who thinks that Trump-like policies might be a good idea,
I doubt many think Trump policies are a good idea but at least a government who is willing to make some tough decisions and not go along the popularist route, which seems to certainly have been Johnson and Starmer tactics.
I know lots of people who are unhappy with current situation but also would never support someone like Trump in a million years.
 

Purple Train

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So out of curiosity, what is making you think positively about Gordon Brown? The pithy take would be that yes he's experienced, but unfortunately that experience is mostly in taking Labour from in power to in opposition.
Purely that he's always been a political hero of mine, so it's just tinted glasses on my part.
 

Snow1964

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Initially put this under the local elections thread, but more relevant here, because it could affect Kier Starmer position

Just spotted that Catherine West (the Labour MP threatening to start a Starmer replacement process tomorrow) is going to be on the Laura Kuenssberg TV show at 9am

For completeness, show also has Bridget Phillipson, James Cleverly, Richard Tice, Rhun ap Iowerth
 

JonathanH

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The soundbites from Angela Rayner this afternoon seem to be based on raising living standards for 'working people'. How is this going to be done?

Aside from the idea of introducing a wealth tax, what avenues exist to shift the tax burden away from the working class to those who are better off? Also, not upsetting those in the Labour Party who don't want to see welfare cuts?

In her first public comments since Thursday's elections, Rayner called for Sir Keir to take more action to tackle inequality and "squeezed living standards".

"We are in danger of becoming a party of the well-off, not working people," she added.

"What we are doing isn't working, and it needs to change. This may be our last chance."

In her 1,000 word statement, she called for Labour to offer regional mayors more economic powers, raise the minimum wage, and be "unafraid to promote new forms of public, community and cooperative ownership across the board".

Is there a way in which cooperative ownership could deliver a more competitive outcome for workers against bigger business and the march of offshoring and automation?
 
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The soundbites from Angela Rayner this afternoon seem to be based on raising living standards for 'working people'. How is this going to be done?

She does not know. She does not have a clue. It is just empty talk.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I note Angela Rayner is now demanding that the Labour Party somehow arranges for Andy Burnham to become an MP.

As the Labour Party would lose any by-election called at present it is not possible to arrange for Andy Burnham to become an MP.

Rayner issues 'last chance' warning to Starmer and backs Burnham to return
Angela Rayner has warned that Labour faces its "last chance" after heavy election losses this week, as she backed Andy Burnham to return to Westminster.
 
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The Ham

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The soundbites from Angela Rayner this afternoon seem to be based on raising living standards for 'working people'. How is this going to be done?

Aside from the idea of introducing a wealth tax, what avenues exist to shift the tax burden away from the working class to those who are better off? Also, not upsetting those in the Labour Party who don't want to see welfare cuts?



Is there a way in which cooperative ownership could deliver a more competitive outcome for workers against bigger business and the march of offshoring and automation?

There's already reasonable tax breaks to convert to Employee Ownership Trusts for owners (generally private owned businesses), the possible issue is the time taken to compleat.

Although that's based on the fact that the business needs to make the profits to buy the owners out whist setting the timetable at a pace which isn't too long that the staff leave before it's finished and isn't too short that it means that the previous owners feel they've not got a good market value.

An alternative tax strategy could be a land value tax. As generally farm land is cheap, and improves in value as there's better nearby infrastructure (roads, railway lines, cities, etc.).

As such, set the tax free value at (say) £15,000 per acre, with anything upto 750 acres (but not averaged, so you can't buy cheap land to offset your tax from an urban area) at this rate being able to be exempt and add 1% for anything above that.

That would mean that a lot of farms wouldn't pay anything, but could be quite costly for people with a lot of land which has buildings on it.

It would mean that land banking of development rights wouldn't be worth doing, as even at the lower end (£300,000 per acre, but can be upto £1 million) that's a tax bill of £2,850 a year (per acre) and so once planning is achieved they will want to get out built.
 

Tezza1978

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As the Labour Party would lose any by-election called at present it is not possible to arrange for Andy Burnham to become an MP.
That really isn't the case. Burnham standing somewhere like Bootle, Merseyside would be almost a shoe in to win given the huge Labour majority, higher turnout the media interest would generate and that a lot of Green/Lib Dem voters would vote tactically to get him in - given his politics are much closer to theirs and that he favours introducing PR before the next election.
 

Kite159

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That really isn't the case. Burnham standing somewhere like Bootle, Merseyside would be almost a shoe in to win given the huge Labour majority, higher turnout the media interest would generate and that a lot of Green/Lib Dem voters would vote tactically to get him in - given his politics are much closer to theirs and that he favours introducing PR before the next election.
Or it might backfire massively with the labour voters of Bootle deciding to turn their nose up at the imported Manchester Mayor attempting to become a MP for a second time.

----

As for Angela Rayner talking about tax... :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Tezza1978

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Or it might backfire massively with the labour voters of Bootle deciding to turn their nose up at the imported Manchester Mayor attempting to become a MP for a second time.

----

As for Angela Rayner talking about tax... :lol: :lol: :lol:
The only "labour" voters it would backfire with are the allegedly Labour ones who have fallen for the Fagash Fuhrer's policies re immigrants /brown people. Bootle is Labour's safest electoral seat statistically.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

He was actually born in Aintree.
Yep. Everton fan.
 

Uncle Buck

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The only "labour" voters it would backfire with are the allegedly Labour ones who have fallen for the Fagash Fuhrer's policies re immigrants /brown people. Bootle is Labour's safest electoral seat statistically.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Taking that title from Coatbridge and Airdrie, which was Labour’s safest seat in 2010, and fell to the SNP in 2015. Nothing lasts forever!
 

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