Altnabreac station and the various legal disputes around it

[Mainliner]

Reported on the YouTube ‘Altnabreac News Channel’ that Appleby & Howe were found guilty on 7 of 11 charges of contempt, sentencing on 12 June.

They were found guilty of contempt on seven issues and found not guilty on four. Sentence has been deferred until 12 June at 12:00pm for the preparation of background reports.

Altnabreac News Channel - 05/05/26 (Ian Appleby + others v Network Rail Contempt Hearing Updates)

Altnabreac News Channel - 05/05/26 (Ian Appleby + others v Network Rail Contempt Hearing Updates)

www.youtube.com

 

[styles]

Reported on the YouTube ‘Altnabreac News Channel’ that Appleby & Howe were found guilty on 7 of 11 charges of contempt, sentencing on 12 June.

Yeah I saw that. Apparently not guilty on publishing the videos to YouTube because it wasn't proven who uploaded them, which I find quite amusing as it's either an admission that they have somebody else uploading videos to their channel, or a lie. I understand it is technically for the prosecutor to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it was them, but I think they've got off lucky being found not guilty there. I also think that even if they hadn't uploaded them themselves, that they are the custodians of the channel and the duration the videos have been online for ought to have been enough to convict, but eh, I'm not a lawyer.

I'll be sunning it up in Lichtenstein the day of their sentencing so no live updates from my side!

 

[greatkingrat]

Yeah I saw that. Apparently not guilty on publishing the videos to YouTube because it wasn't proven who uploaded them, which I find quite amusing as it's either an admission that they have somebody else uploading videos to their channel, or a lie. I understand it is technically for the prosecutor to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it was them, but I think they've got off lucky being found not guilty there. I also think that even if they hadn't uploaded them themselves, that they are the custodians of the channel and the duration the videos have been online for ought to have been enough to convict, but eh, I'm not a lawyer.

I'll be sunning it up in Lichtenstein the day of their sentencing so no live updates from my side!

Is it just that they can't prove whether Appleby or Howe posted the videos? You can't convict both of them for something only done by one of them.

 

[enginedin]

Is it just that they can't prove whether Appleby or Howe posted the videos? You can't convict both of them for something only done by one of them.

Yes you can, that's what Joint Liability covers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_purpose#English_law

> An old example of this doctrine in English law is R v Swindall and Osborne (1846) 2 Car. & K. 230. Two cart drivers engaged in a race. One of them ran down and killed a pedestrian. It was not known which one had driven the fatal cart, but since they were encouraging each other in the race, it was irrelevant which of them had actually struck the man and both were held jointly liable

More generally, as given by wikipedia:

> The doctrine of common purpose, common design, joint enterprise, joint criminal enterprise or parasitic accessory liability[1] is a common law legal doctrine that imputes criminal liability to the participants in a criminal enterprise for all reasonable results from that enterprise.

I think it's more likely in serious crimes, but (afaik, and, ianal) nothing to stop it being used for any crime

 

[styles]

Yes you can, that's what Joint Liability covers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_purpose#English_law

> An old example of this doctrine in English law is R v Swindall and Osborne (1846) 2 Car. & K. 230. Two cart drivers engaged in a race. One of them ran down and killed a pedestrian. It was not known which one had driven the fatal cart, but since they were encouraging each other in the race, it was irrelevant which of them had actually struck the man and both were held jointly liable

More generally, as given by wikipedia:

> The doctrine of common purpose, common design, joint enterprise, joint criminal enterprise or parasitic accessory liability[1] is a common law legal doctrine that imputes criminal liability to the participants in a criminal enterprise for all reasonable results from that enterprise.

I think it's more likely in serious crimes, but (afaik, and, ianal) nothing to stop it being used for any crime

Just to point out that this link talks about English law, which doesn't apply in Scotland. It may be true in Scotland as well, I don't know, but the case law presumably does not apply.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I think it's more likely in serious crimes, but (afaik, and, ianal) nothing to stop it being used for any crime

In English law, joint enterprise complicated but there must be a level of knowledge and intent on the part of all parties. If A says B murdered someone but B says A did it then it would be joint enterprise if they both broke into the victim’s house, for instance.

My understanding is that Scottish law is similar.

But in this case they can’t prove whether it was Appleby or Howe (or A N Other) who uploaded it, and they equally can’t prove whether Appleby or Howe (or A N Other) knew the uploader was going to do it. And given the more obviously provable contempts, it probably wasn’t worth the investigation.

 

[najaB]

Is it just that they can't prove whether Appleby or Howe posted the videos? You can't convict both of them for something only done by one of them.

I think it's more just that it's technically possible that someone else uploaded the video to the channel without their knowledge. And it wasn't worth the effort to try and prove it given that they would definitely be found guilty of other offences.

 

[EYFanatic]

I think it's more just that it's technically possible that someone else uploaded the video to the channel without their knowledge. And it wasn't worth the effort to try and prove it given that they would definitely be found guilty of other offences.

Youtube would have a record of where a video was uploaded as has been shown in a number of cases before

I can only presume that the Prosecution decided it would be a waste of time and effort to get that data from Alphabet Inc who do seem very reluctant to part with data in legal cases in the UK under both English and Scots

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Reported on the YouTube ‘Altnabreac News Channel’ that Appleby & Howe were found guilty on 7 of 11 charges of contempt, sentencing on 12 June.

Having been found guilty on 7 of 11 charges under the Contempt of Court Act 1981, I wonder what type of sentence may be handed down?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 May 2026 ==

I can only presume that the Prosecution decided it would be a waste of time and effort to get that data from Alphabet Inc who do seem very reluctant to part with data in legal cases in the UK under both English and Scots

Reluctancy attempted to be shown by Alphabet Inc in legal cases held in Scotland to provide required information surely can legally be overcome by powers invested in the judiciary.

 

[PG]

Having been found guilty on 7 of 11 charges under the Contempt of Court Act 1981, I wonder what type of sentence may be handed down?

The act provides the following which indicates either a fine or a period of imprisionment - which, if I am reading it correctly, would be for a period not exceeding three months. However, given that prisioners are currently being released early due to overcrowding, I'd say a fine is likely to be imposed.

15 Penalties for contempt of court in Scottish proceedings.​

(1)In Scottish proceedings, when a person is committed to prison for contempt of court the committal shall (without prejudice to the power of the court to order his earlier discharge) be for a fixed term.​

(2)The maximum penalty which may be imposed by way of imprisonment or fine for contempt of court in Scottish proceedings shall be two years’ imprisonment or a fine or both, except that—

(a)where the contempt is dealt with by the sheriff in the course of or in connection with proceedings other than criminal proceedings on indictment, such penalty shall not exceed three months’ imprisonment or a fine of [F41level 4 on the standard scale] or both; and

(b)where the contempt is dealt with by the district court, such penalty shall not exceed sixty days’ imprisonment or a fine of [F41level 4 on the standard scale] or both.

 

[Buzby]

surely can legally be overcome by powers invested in the judiciary.

But to what end? Foreign firms are well known to be virtually immune from home sanctions (just look at all the unpaid fines Ofcom has levied on enterprises that fell foul of it). We always hear of the fines, not that they've been paid. I would suspect the PF made a judgement call that they had made enough of an effort to get their desired result.

 

[Spaceship323]

The act provides the following which indicates either a fine or a period of imprisionment - which, if I am reading it correctly, would be for a period not exceeding three months. However, given that prisioners are currently being released early due to overcrowding, I'd say a fine is likely to be imposed.

And what is the punishment for non payment of fines?....Because we all know they won't pay it

 

[D6130]

And what is the punishment for non payment of fines?....Because we all know they won't pay it

Imprisonment.

 

[zwk500]

And what is the punishment for non payment of fines?....Because we all know they won't pay it

Fines FAQs | Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service

www.scotcourts.gov.uk

If you don’t pay, we can:

• clamp your car or vehicle and ultimately sell it to repay your fine
• contact your employer and arrest your wages
• contact your bank and arrange for any assets to be frozen
• arrange with DWP for direct deductions from your benefits

It is therefore important to get in touch with us if you are having genuine difficulty paying your fine.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If they are found guilty of other court matters currently pending and a sentence given for a previous matter is still in process, in cases such as this, would it be a sentence to run concurrently or otherwise?

 

[Buzby]

would it be a sentence to run concurrently or otherwise?

Most likely - since jails are bursting at the seams, community service seems most applicable as it’s a sanction that can be delivered .

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Most likely - since jails are bursting at the seams, community service seems most applicable as it’s a sanction that can be delivered .

What is the type of Community Service that could be suitable in the area of Altabreac and who would be monitoring it?

 

[35B]

What is the type of Community Service that could be suitable in the area of Altabreac and who would be monitoring it?

How local would it have to be?

 

[Buzby]

Litter picking? Flow measuring? It’ll all be academic should EE/BT get the property in settlement of their costs.

 

[zwk500]

What is the type of Community Service that could be suitable in the area of Altabreac and who would be monitoring it?

Before it gets to that stage, one imagines an attempt would be made to recover the money involuntarily from the couple.

According to the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service:

If you don’t pay, we can:

• clamp your car or vehicle and ultimately sell it to repay your fine
• contact your employer and arrest your wages
• contact your bank and arrange for any assets to be frozen
• arrange with DWP for direct deductions from your benefits

It's also possible the couple could look for other people to help them cover the fine.

 

[najaB]

What is the type of Community Service that could be suitable in the area of Altabreac and who would be monitoring it?

It wouldn't necessarily have to be local to where they live. If community service was imposed then I can easily see them serving it in Wick.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Having been found guilty on 7 of 11 charges under the Contempt of Court Act 1981, I wonder what type of sentence may be handed down?

The act provides the following which indicates either a fine or a period of imprisionment - which, if I am reading it correctly, would be for a period not exceeding three months. However, given that prisioners are currently being released early due to overcrowding, I'd say a fine is likely to be imposed.

Minor point - I read it as a fine or imprisonment or both.

 

[Stathern Jc]

Anyone serving a Community Service Order needs to get to the designated site in order to do so; and as they are an alternative to a custodial sentence, defaulting would have a clear consequence.
(Maybe sensible to keep any speculation to the most general nature, avoiding specific reference to the cases of particular interest here as far as possible).

 

[duffield]

Anyone serving a Community Service Order needs to get to the designated site in order to do so; and as they are an alternative to a custodial sentence, defaulting would have a clear consequence.
(Maybe sensible to keep any speculation to the most general nature, avoiding specific reference to the cases of particular interest here as far as possible).

Yes, so as a general principle though, I wonder how community service can work when the only options available are such that it would be impractical for someone living in an isolated area to perform it without staying away from their home? How is that situation handled?

 

[Buzby]

There would be some accommodation so that justice would ‘be seen to be done’ (whether practical or not).

 

[najaB]

Yes, so as a general principle though, I wonder how community service can work when the only options available are such that it would be impractical for someone living in an isolated area to perform it without staying away from their home?

Alnabraec to Wick is about an hour by road. I'm sure that the authorities could send a van to pick them up if needed.

 

[Spaceship323]

Alnabraec to Wick is about an hour by road. I'm sure that the authorities could send a van to pick them up if needed.

Part of community service is to show that you can get there on time, a minute late and you're sent home and marked as did not attend, so I would think they would need to be in Wick by 10am

 

[najaB]

Part of community service is to show that you can get there on time, a minute late and you're sent home and marked as did not attend, so I would think they would need to be in Wick by 10am

Exceptional circumstances require exceptional measures. The measure could be if they are at the assigned meeting point on time or not.

 

[Dai Corner]

What is the type of Community Service that could be suitable in the area of Altabreac and who would be monitoring it?

Perhaps they could help Network Rail staff maintain and improve the station and public access thereto?

 

[AlterEgo]

Perhaps they could help Network Rail staff maintain and improve the station and public access thereto?

Network Rail would not allow that and getting a probation officer out there to supervise is a bigger waste of time then them - the offenders - getting to Wick.