(Trivia) When is a London Underground train a train, and when is it a service?

[SHD]

(Mods, I did not find a generic LU trivia thread, feel free to move as appropriate!)

Just came back from a quick trip to London with the kids. We used the Underground as much as we could considering the strike.

I noticed that the automated announcements in District or Central lines trains mentioned... "trains", as in "This is a District line train to Richmond" or "This is a Central line train to Woodford via Hainault".

But in Piccadilly line trains, which we could eventually enjoy on Saturday, the announcements went "This is a Piccadilly line service to Wood Green".

Any reason for the difference? A tradition, or a subtle choice from the people in charge of passenger information on each line? Just a random fact of life?

 

[urbophile]

(Mods, I did not find a generic LU trivia thread, feel free to move as appropriate!)

Just came back from a quick trip to London with the kids. We used the Underground as much as we could considering the strike.

I noticed that the automated announcements in District or Central lines trains mentioned... "trains", as in "This is a District line train to Richmond" or "This is a Central line train to Woodford via Hainault".

But in Piccadilly line trains, which we could eventually enjoy on Saturday, the announcements went "This is a Piccadilly line service to Wood Green".

Any reason for the difference? A tradition, or a subtle choice from the people in charge of passenger information on each line? Just a random fact of life?

A train is a physical object. A 'service' is just that; theoretically the train could be replaced by a bus but it would still be (some sort of) service. A service is usually a train, but a train is not always a service.

Your examples seem like a random choice with no logic to them. I don't know if LU have the annoying Merseyrail habit of announcements like this, 'the service approaching the platform is out of service.' It is obviously a train, but equally obviously no longer a service.

 

[SHD]

A train is a physical object. A 'service' is just that; theoretically the train could be replaced by a bus but it would still be (some sort of) service. A service is usually a train, but a train is not always a service.

Your examples seem like a random choice with no logic to them. I don't know if LU have the annoying Merseyrail habit of announcements like this, 'the service approaching the platform is out of service.' It is obviously a train, but equally obviously no longer a service.

"The service approaching the platform is out of service" - that sounds like a quote from railway adventures narrated by Lewis Carroll!

 

[Recessio]

(Mods, I did not find a generic LU trivia thread, feel free to move as appropriate!)

Just came back from a quick trip to London with the kids. We used the Underground as much as we could considering the strike.

I noticed that the automated announcements in District or Central lines trains mentioned... "trains", as in "This is a District line train to Richmond" or "This is a Central line train to Woodford via Hainault".

But in Piccadilly line trains, which we could eventually enjoy on Saturday, the announcements went "This is a Piccadilly line service to Wood Green".

Any reason for the difference? A tradition, or a subtle choice from the people in charge of passenger information on each line? Just a random fact of life?

I don't know when the Picadilly and Central lines last had their announcements re-recorded, but if it turns out Picadilly recordings are the oldest, could it be that the terminology has changed and "train" is the more modern choice?

 

[Dstock7080]

Piccadilly 1973 Stock are/were the only ones to announce ‘service’

 

[SHD]

So my takeaway is that the Piccadilly line use of "service" is either a whimsical choice of that line's management or a carryover from the past!

 

[announcements]

Probably line management decision. However, it is inaccurate to say the Piccadilly line has the oldest announcements, when they were introduced in 2006. The Piccadilly line did receive scrolling destination messages as early as the '90s, which used "this train is for".

When automated announcements first came into being on the Underground in the '80s/90s, the message was "this train terminates at" - without specifying the line name. Chronology wise:
1988 - 1986 stock
1993 - 1992 stock
1996 - 1973 stock (scrolling messages only)
1997 - 1996 stock
1998 - 1995 stock

The C and 1972 stock "Vera" announcements were the first to say "this is an X train to" from 1997. Then the 1967 stock followed suit in 2000/01. In 2003 the Central line announcements were re-recorded, and in 2005 the D stock received. All "train to"...

Then in 2006 the Piccadilly line received announcements, which were the first (and only) to receive "service to".

The 2009 and S stocks were next up, which used "train to". The 1995 stock was re-recorded in 2015, also with "train to".

Turning our attention to other TfL modes, the LO trains from 2009 said "service to" but have recently been changed to "train to" upon receiving individual line names. On the other hand, Elizabeth line started with "train to" in 2022, but has been subsequently re-recorded to "service to". The DLR remains "this train for" and has been since the announcements were introduced in the '00s.

The jury is out in other words! A bit of a mixed economy.

 

[xtmw]

Now a days the announcements are determined by the Customer Experience Team.

 

[Harpo]

Now a days the announcements are determined by the Customer Experience Team.

Passenger or customer?
Train or service?
Railway station or train station?
Depot or train care facility?
Maintenance or production?
Platform staff or reception team?
Staff or people?

Keeps someone in a job! Or is that ‘role’?

 

[Recessio]

Passenger or customer?
Train or service?
Railway station or train station?
Depot or train care facility?
Maintenance or production?
Platform staff or reception team?
Staff or people?

Keeps someone in a job! Or is that ‘role’?

Conductor, guard, on board supervisor, train crew?
Coach or carriage?

 

[A60stock]

One thing I never understood was why the A stock, despite being around for a significant period of time following the introduction of announcements, was never given automated audible announcements following their refurbishment

 

[announcements]

I always wondered why the A stock couldn't have been retrofitted with iBus tech, given it mostly ran outdoors.

Conductor, guard, on board supervisor, train crew?
Coach or carriage?

Most LU on-board announcements say "please move right down inside the car(s)" but the '09 stock says "carriage".

The other one is "alight" Vs "exit":

The first trains to point out a place of interest was the 1995 stock at Old Street: "change here for Moorfields Eye hospital."

Then other lines started to introduce "alights" such as the 1967, 1972 and C Stock. The 1996 stock was the first to use "exit" when its announcements were redone c. 2003. Then the D and 1973 stock announcements from the mid-'00s went back to "alight". Then in the late '00s, the 1967, 1972, C and D stocks were revised from "alight" to "exit", with the '09 and S stocks following suit. I have a feeling the D stock then reverted back to "alight" because that specific recording sounded like "eggs hit" and confused people! The 1995 stock introduced "exits" in a 2015, but retained "change for" at Moorfields Eye Hospital.

Curiously, the newer Sarah Parnell Central line announcements use "alight". However, the male announcements on the CLIP use "exit".

Meanwhile, London Overground uses "alight" and the Elizabeth line uses "exit"

So again, a bit of a mixed economy. However, I do remember asking TfL why some of the lines were consciously changed to "exit" and I was told it was to make it easier for tourists / non-english speakers.

Now, technically "alight" simply means to get off or disembark. So when it comes to interchanging to a different line or exiting for a place of interest, the word "alight" is relevant. However, some may also interpret the "exit" as being exit the train as opposed to exit the vehicle, in which case it is no different to "alight" - however, I interpret "exit" to mean physically leave the station. This, of course, also means "all change please" is also irrelevant as not all termini have an option to change to another service, so it should be "all alight / disembark / exit the train please"!

 

[bramling]

One thing I never understood was why the A stock, despite being around for a significant period of time following the introduction of announcements, was never given automated audible announcements following their refurbishment

It was deemed not a priority given the line is disproportionately used by commuter / regular user types.

ISTR digitised announcers on LU were initially aimed more at tourists than for the visually impaired.

In answer to the original question, I suspect it was simply a line management thing. The various lines were quite autonomous at the time, and this sort of thing would have been done by the Infracos in partnership with LU. So imagine meeting of various internal relevant people, and this was simply what they decided.

Same as the Northern has always managed to keep their “Celia” messages as generally the line management have always been fond of them - and with good reason as they’re generally clear and sound decent. Wouldn’t bank on it forever though, given that line managements on LU have somewhat shrunk over the last few years and don’t have the same level of autonomy that they did a while ago. LU’s org structure is like a revolving door, sadly.

 

[urbophile]

Passenger or customer?
Train or service?
Railway station or train station?
Depot or train care facility?
Maintenance or production?
Platform staff or reception team?
Staff or people?

Keeps someone in a job! Or is that ‘role’?

Some of those are synonyms, and a matter of taste/house style. But a train is not always a service, and a service not always a train. You could say, 'the train approaching platform x is a service for y', but the reverse is clumsy if not confusing. Even worse is 'the service approaching platform x is out of service'.

 

[announcements]

Great Anglia used to say "this train is for" and now say "this is the service to" - a conscious decision to change it.

Meanwhile when it comes to Thameslink, "this train terminates at" is back in fashion!

 

[charles123]

I noticed the Elizabeth line station announcements say, 'the train approaching platform x is the service to x'

 

[Waterlooville]

Fantastic question!

 

[urbophile]

I noticed the Elizabeth line station announcements say, 'the train approaching platform x is the service to x'

That makes sense. The other way round, not so much.