Misuse of passenger sockets and how to address it?

[PG]

Yeah I heard similar. I thought it was odd with the limited life of the HST fleet and given Scotrail can't afford to staff them anyway. I'll take a cold beer over a tepid coffee any day!

This reminds me of the stickers that Virgin had next to the electrical sockets - no hairdryers, toasters etc.. Wonder if anyone has tried to use a kettle for their hot drinks

 

[Rick1984]

Wonder if anyone has tried to use a kettle for their hot drinks

Not on an HST, but my brother has seen someone doing just this

 

[tfw756rider]

Not on an HST, but my brother has seen someone doing just this

And blew a fuse with the 3000 watts?

 

[duffield]

And blew a fuse with the 3000 watts?

FWIW you can get 300W mini-kettles - and some monster laptops have 330W chargers! So would both or neither trip the circuit?

 

[D365]

FWIW you can get 300W mini-kettles - and some monster laptops have 330W chargers! So would both or neither trip the circuit?

Fused sockets for IT equipment are typically fused between 1.5 and 3 amps. But for passenger sockets you will typically find that groups of sockets are protected by a circuit breaker and/or residual current device. If each socket was drawing 330W, the circuit would trip, but one or two sockets drawing 330W each would typically not cause an issue.

 

[Rick1984]

Found picture of said kettle

 

[godfreycomplex]

Found picture of says kettle

Good lord why

It is indeed true that using high current items (straighteners are typically the miscreants, but some others do occur, including kettles it would appear) trips out the plug socket system. This mainly affects HSTs and 385s, but I’ve seen it on 390s as well.

 

[scotraildriver]

The 156s on the West Highlands are constantly tripping due to inappropriate use. A stupid journalist posted an article of her using a plug in heater on the first train of the day and now everyone's at it. Fortunately on 156s the train crew can reset them, they can't access the circuit breaker on HSTs so they stay out of use until the train reaches a depot.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they weren't so cold on board...

 

[158715]

There was a news article recently about someone cooking a steak with hair straighteners on a train!

 

[LowLevel]

The 156s on the West Highlands are constantly tripping due to inappropriate use. A stupid journalist posted an article of her using a plug in heater on the first train of the day and now everyone's at it. Fortunately on 156s the train crew can reset them, they can't access the circuit breaker on HSTs so they stay out of use until the train reaches a depot.

The answer there is once they trip, declare that the breaker has been blown by misuse and refuse to reset it until after the end of the journey in question. Repeat until they get the message.

 

[superalbs]

The answer there is once they trip, declare that the breaker has been blown by misuse and refuse to reset it until after the end of the journey in question. Repeat until they get the message.

Yes what a wonderful idea, let's make everyone suffer because of one misuse!

 

[LowLevel]

Yes what a wonderful idea, let's make everyone suffer because of one misuse!

I knew someone would say that. My alternative position is to reset it once, issue suitable words of advice and if it goes again, leave it.

For context - on quite a few of the train I work on the breaker is quite literally in the roof and requires standing on chairs whilst dropping the ceiling panels to reset. It isn't a simple job for anyone let alone anyone less than 6 ft tall and whoever installed them chose to put them in a bizarre place.

 

[yorksrob]

The answer there is once they trip, declare that the breaker has been blown by misuse and refuse to reset it until after the end of the journey in question. Repeat until they get the message.

Ah, collective punishment. My junior school teachers were very fond of that

 

[Pigeon]

One obvious answer would surely be to supply each socket through an individual self-resetting circuit breaker, which trips if you try and draw >1A and then delays for 5 minutes before it tries to reset itself.

Another one would be to only provide sockets where they may fulfil an actual need, ie. in the disabled area for recharging wheelchairs, mobility scooters and the like. Improvident mobile phone addicts won't suffer any harm from going cold turkey for a bit, but someone who needs a charged battery to get about or for some other medical purpose is a different matter.

Good lord why

Well in my case it would be because of the impossibility of getting a decent pot of tea other than by making it myself (and the swingeing cost of any commercial alternative). But I would be deriving the necessary heat from the combustion of butane, not from an electrical supply. There wasn't one in compartment stock anyway.

 

[gordonthemoron]

20 or so years ago, I saw someone using a desk top computer in first class, on MML

 

[ClivePage]

Some years ago when I was a student attending a 9 O'clock lecture, one of my fellow students plugged in a toaster in a socket (probably intended for an overhead projector) at the back of the lecture theatre in order to make his breakfast. He did this very quietly but of course the small of toasted bread soon wafted over the entire lecture room. There was a certain amout of disorder as we all became aware of his efforts - and envied him. The lecturer, as far as I remember, pretended not to have noticed what was going on. Perhaps he had seen it all before.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Well in my case it would be because of the impossibility of getting a decent pot of tea other than by making it myself (and the swingeing cost of any commercial alternative). But I would be deriving the necessary heat from the combustion of butane, not from an electrical supply. There wasn't one in compartment stock anyway.

I know this is a bit of a vignette but butane gas is extremely forbidden on trains

 

[Ken X]

Some people shouldn't be allowed electrical items.

In a past life I was working with a GAL electrician out on one of the piers at Gatwick. He had an emergency call to say a gate near us had lost all 230v power, holding up a flight. We shot round and determined the trip had activated.

A bit of deduction found that the offending device was a faulty Virgin laptop which was tripping the power when plugged in. He gave the Virgin team strict instructions to remove the laptop, not to use it until fixed, and reset the power.

We had barely got back to our workplace when engineering were back on the horn to say the gate had gone down again and could we attend.

On arrival we immediately spotted the laptop plugged back in again. Strong words were had and it was made very clear that if the offending device was not removed from the pier it would be dealt with.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know this is a bit of a vignette but butane gas is extremely forbidden on trains

Theoretically, but due to the absence of baggage checks it will be in many campers' rucksacks. If not in use it's no more danger than the butane propellant in a can of hairspray.

 

[edwin_m]

Theoretically, but due to the absence of baggage checks it will be in many campers' rucksacks. If not in use it's no more danger than the butane propellant in a can of hairspray.

It depends how much escapes. Butane is heavier than air so will tend to pool at ground level, rather than dispersing upwards as hydrogen and methane do. Once the butane exceeds 1,4% it will be liable to explode. A gas cylinder contains much more butane than an aerosol, so is that much more dangerous if it springs a leak.

 

[Topological]

Some years ago when I was a student attending a 9 O'clock lecture, one of my fellow students plugged in a toaster in a socket (probably intended for an overhead projector) at the back of the lecture theatre in order to make his breakfast. He did this very quietly but of course the small of toasted bread soon wafted over the entire lecture room. There was a certain amout of disorder as we all became aware of his efforts - and envied him. The lecturer, as far as I remember, pretended not to have noticed what was going on. Perhaps he had seen it all before.

These days lecture theatres have a lot more power sockets to handle student laptops etc. Disappointingly, I have never seen any of my students attempt cooking anything in the class. In my case they certainly would not be "noticed", though I would enjoy seeing it privately. As academics, we tend to worry a lot less about discipline, especially anything which does not impact the rest of the class. All the students are adults and the time is much better spent on the content of the class.

Trains are different because of the limited power available. There is a clear impact on "the class" when the whole power circuit is taken out. I would still hope a quiet word is sufficient to solve the problem.

I value having sockets for my laptop on the train. It would definitely be a step backwards to remove sockets from seats.

 

[saismee]

My problem is that people seem to jam just about anything into the USB ports on trains, rendering 50% of them useless. I always bring a charging brick because of how unreliable the USB ports are now. Also, I've had a funny tingle from holding my charging phone (plugged into the USB port of a 745) and resting my elbow on the metal armrest. Not quite a shock, just an uncomfortable tingle.

 

[Trackman]

My problem is that people seem to jam just about anything into the USB ports on trains, rendering 50% of them useless. I always bring a charging brick because of how unreliable the USB ports are now. Also, I've had a funny tingle from holding my charging phone (plugged into the USB port of a 745) and resting my elbow on the metal armrest. Not quite a shock, just an uncomfortable tingle.

There's no way I'd plug anything into a public USB port especially on a train after what happened in France, which I think was a deliberate action.

 

[yorksrob]

There's no way I'd plug anything into a public USB port especially on a train after what happened in France, which I think was a deliberate action.

What happened there, out of interest ?

 

[Trackman]

What happened there, out of interest ?

After a bit of googling, it turns out it was in Germany.
It was actually discussed on these forums at the time.

Baden-Württemberg: Frau erleidet in Zug Stromschlag – Polizei prüft weitere Fälle

Haben Unbekannte weitere Steckdosen in baden-württembergischen Zügen manipuliert? Am Freitag erlitt eine Frau einen Stromschlag, nun haben sich weitere mutmaßlich Betroffene gemeldet.

www.spiegel.de

Translation:

On Friday, a woman suffered an electric shock, now more allegedly affected have come forward.

14.08.2023, 12.49 pm



After a woman got electrocuted last Friday because of a manipulated socket on a train, police are investigating possible further cases. "People have contacted us who have experienced something similar," said a spokesman for the Federal Police in Stuttgart.
They are two other victims. However, these incidents would not have occurred in the past few days, but would have already been several weeks and months ago. It is now being examined whether it was also manipulated sockets or possibly a technical defect, said the spokesman. The incidents would have occurred on other railway lines in Baden-Württemberg and also on trains of other railway operators. The spokesman did not give further details for investigative reasons.

Investigation into dangerous bodily harm​

A woman had received an electric shock on the train of a private train operator on Friday during a train journey from Stuttgart to Karlsruhe after she had touched a manipulated socket. According to the information, the perpetrator or perpetrators had pulled thin metal wires out of the socket or plugged them in. The Federal Police are investigating, among other things, for dangerous bodily harm and advised to check sockets on trains before using for manipulation. These should not be touched, but informed by the officials or the train staff.
bbr/dpa

 

[yorksrob]

Oh dear - Thanks for posting !

 

[Elecman]

Some people shouldn't be allowed electrical items.

In a past life I was working with a GAL electrician out on one of the piers at Gatwick. He had an emergency call to say a gate near us had lost all 230v power, holding up a flight. We shot round and determined the trip had activated.

A bit of deduction found that the offending device was a faulty Virgin laptop which was tripping the power when plugged in. He gave the Virgin team strict instructions to remove the laptop, not to use it until fixed, and reset the power.

We had barely got back to our workplace when engineering were back on the horn to say the gate had gone down again and could we attend.

On arrival we immediately spotted the laptop plugged back in again. Strong words were had and it was made very clear that if the offending device was not removed from the pier it would be dealt with.

The second time I would have cut the plug off