Are there any countries other than the UK and Ireland that don't publish train numbers?

[AY1975]

In most countries in mainland Europe (and, I believe, many countries in the rest of the world) train numbers (often including a one-, two- or three-letter prefix to denote the category of train, e.g. IC for Intercity, EC for Eurocity, ICE, TGV, NJ for Nightjet, etc) are published in timetables and shown on departure indicators and on the digital information displays on the sides of trains (or on the boards displaying this information in the train window, often in the window on an external door, where these are still used).

AFAIK this has never been done in Britain or Ireland (North or Republic), though. Does anyone know of any other European countries (or countries in the rest of the world) that don't do this? The only other European countries I can think of that don't are Belgium and the Netherlands, at least for domestic trains. They do for international trains, though. Not sure if BE and NL used to do it for domestic trains in the past.

 

[The exile]

In most countries in mainland Europe (and, I believe, many countries in the rest of the world) train numbers (often including a one-, two- or three-letter prefix to denote the category of train, e.g. IC for Intercity, EC for Eurocity, ICE, TGV, NJ for Nightjet, etc) are published in timetables and shown on departure indicators and on the digital information displays on the sides of trains (or on the boards displaying this information in the train window, often in the window on an external door, where these are still used).

AFAIK this has never been done in Britain or Ireland (North or Republic), though. Does anyone know of any other European countries (or countries in the rest of the world) that don't do this? The only other European countries I can think of that don't are Belgium and the Netherlands, at least for domestic trains. They do for international trains, though. Not sure if BE and NL used to do it for domestic trains in the past.

Belgium certainly used to in timetables at least.
The further down the pyramid you get (towards metro-type operation), the less likely they are to be generally used - route numbers being preferred once you’ve got regular interval standard stopping patterns and no seat reservations.

 

[DanielB]

The Netherlands never displayed train numbers on trains and on departure boards for domestic trains, but they have always been displayed in the paper timetables and are also in the journey planner though you'll need to click through to the train details.

Several regional services do nowadays have a route number which is displayed on trains and departure boards, but these are nowhere to be found in the NS planner. Though they are in some planners using the available open data.

Even the train numbers for international trains are a relatively recent addition to the departure boards by the way. And recently there has been a proposal in the NS Panel for route numbers for domestic NS trains utilising the first two digits of the train number, which are indeed unique for a certain route.

 

[rmHawk765]

While this doesn't answer the question, I've never seen how these numbers, which appear random to passengers, are easier to remember than, say, the 16:53 to Moorgate. A more sensical approach in my opinion is to have route numbers/IDs, such as what Germany has with their regional routes.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

IIRC Elizabeth line trains have the headcode in the destination indicators on the sides of each unit

 

[rmHawk765]

IIRC Elizabeth line trains have the headcode in the destination indicators on the sides of each unit

They do indeed, but I've never really understood the point.

 

[The exile]

While this doesn't answer the question, I've never seen how these numbers, which appear random to passengers, are easier to remember than, say, the 16:53 to Moorgate. A more sensical approach in my opinion is to have route numbers/IDs, such as what Germany has with their regional routes.

On routes where there is a regular interval service with standard stopping pattern and no seat reservation / booked train only route numbers are indeed easier. The advantage of train numbers over departure times is that they are unique (so no confusion. At Birmingham New Street between the 13.30 to Edinburgh via The WCML and the 13.30 to Edinburgh via York) and consistent. It stops being the 13.30 the minute it leaves Birmingham, but it remains IC93, or whatever. It’s also advantageous during disruption, where the train numbers can remain the same even though today’s destination is only Dunbar. Your example “the 16.53 to Moorgate” - from where?

 

[Bemined]

In the Netherlands using train numbers on departure boards for domestic trains will probably not be very useful as the numbers often change due to engineering works. Sometimes they even change last minute for operational reasons, e.g. if there is a disruption which results in the service being cut in two, the first part keeps the original train number while the second part gets a 300000 added to the original train number. If you want to use train numbers for communication to the customers you probably want to ensure the numbers tend to be the same most of the time. For international trains that is the case, but domestic trains less so over here.

 

[DanielB]

The advantage of train numbers over departure times is that they are unique (so no confusion.

The disadvantage is however that they may change, for example with an adjusted timetable during engineering works or even for a reason @Bemined mentioned.

A nice example thereof for this week is the Dutch station of Veenendaal-De Klomp: normally the 8.22 to Arnhem would be IC 3223 and the 8.37 direction Utrecht would be IC 3224. But this week there are engineering works near Amsterdam which lead to an adjusted timetable. Departure times have remained the same but the train numbers now are SPR 7423 (to Arnhem) and SPR 7424 (direction Utrecht).
So mentioning train numbers would only lead to confusion, but route numbers you could keep the same in these cases. That would also have avoided the notifications regarding skipped stations, as the alternate trains are now named Sprinter but actually skip all Sprinter-only stops between Arnhem and Driebergen-Zeist. Would they have been called IC32, that would have immediately been clear.

 

[StephenHunter]

While this doesn't answer the question, I've never seen how these numbers, which appear random to passengers, are easier to remember than, say, the 16:53 to Moorgate. A more sensical approach in my opinion is to have route numbers/IDs, such as what Germany has with their regional routes.

NJ 420 to Amsterdam does at least have the advantage of being funny if you know your slang.

 

[jpl]

In Norway, trains have train numbers for scheduling and operational purposes, but those aren't generally included in public faced information. Route codes and departure times are enough anyway.

 

[The exile]

The disadvantage is however that they may change, for example with an adjusted timetable during engineering works or even for a reason @Bemined mentioned.

A nice example thereof for this week is the Dutch station of Veenendaal-De Klomp: normally the 8.22 to Arnhem would be IC 3223 and the 8.37 direction Utrecht would be IC 3224. But this week there are engineering works near Amsterdam which lead to an adjusted timetable. Departure times have remained the same but the train numbers now are SPR 7423 (to Arnhem) and SPR 7424 (direction Utrecht).
So mentioning train numbers would only lead to confusion, but route numbers you could keep the same in these cases. That would also have avoided the notifications regarding skipped stations, as the alternate trains are now named Sprinter but actually skip all Sprinter-only stops between Arnhem and Driebergen-Zeist. Would they have been called IC32, that would have immediately been clear.

That’s because of the way the operator chooses to use the train numbering, which is not customer friendly, not because of train numbering itself. Times would also be of little use if the 08.22 were now the 08.33, at which time under the normal timetable there would be another service to the same destination but with a different stopping pattern.

 

[DanielB]

That’s because of the way the operator chooses to use the train numbering, which is not customer friendly, not because of train numbering itself.

No, it's because actually a different train is running which had it's route extended to serve as a replacement service, coincidentally resulting in the same timing.

The basic problem with train numbers is that they need to be unique as they also serve a purpose for the signallers. In Germany, where they do display train numbers on departure boards, I've seen those number changes happen as well which can be rather confusing.
Once I got a message in DB Navigator stating something like "Instead of ICE 567, today ICE 9523 is running. Your ticket remains valid". Though in terms of route, there wasn't even any change visible.

 

[Bemined]

I think the problem in the Netherlands is that even at major stations, a lot of trains are just passing through rather than terminating. That means it is more likely that routes need to change when there are engineering works as a service is forced to continue as another service instead. In theory they can solve this by using different train numbers for each segment of the route, they did this in the past with some routes (until 2 years ago, sprinter trains between Woerden and Geldermalsen changed train number in Utrecht for example) but that has some drawbacks as well (it often went wrong with timetable changes where the journey planner would show a 2 minute samen platform change).

 

[MarcVD]

The only other European countries I can think of that don't are Belgium and the Netherlands, at least for domestic trains. They do for international trains, though. Not sure if BE and NL used to do it for domestic trains in the past.

Train numbers are not displayed in station announcers because it take up too much valuable information space that can be dedicated for better uses. Not that many people care about those numbers. However, where space is available, they are displayed on the trains themselves, inside and/or outside, in the SNCB app, and on paper schedules available in PDF format from the SNCB website.

 

[89-763-733]

Irish Rail train numbers can be found via their "live trains" page

Live Trains

Iarnród Éireann Irish Rail live train arrival and departures real-time information

www.irishrail.ie

 

[stadler]

New Zealand is exactly the same as the UK and Ireland in that they do not publicise any train service numbers.

 

[signed]

RER services in Paris don’t have train numbers

They have a 4 letter code that is publicly shown that reflect 1. the destination and 2 the stopping pattern, the rest 2 are phonetics only (except on RER D where they now carry information as of 26)

You can absolutely find multiple trains with the same service code following each other at times.