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Maybe reroute the X4, starting from Seton Sands to Port Seton and Cockenzie then its current, or slightly different route through Prestonpans. Leave the X5 alone! At least two of my relatives would be quite unhappy if it is removed from Longniddry.
This would also work but is reliant on Lothian sending 26's back to Tranent, something they already said wasn't paying. The bonus with using the X4 is giving connections to the trains at Prestonpans and Wallyford for those that want them.
How about a new X3 Edinburgh follows the X7 route to The Jewel, Down A1 comes off at A199 junction - High Street - Ormiston Road - waterloo road - Brotherstone way - south Glynn walk - off to Pencaitland. Everyone get teh faster bus. While the X4 can become hourly and goes to Seaton sands
How about a new X3 Edinburgh follows the X7 route to The Jewel, Down A1 comes off at A199 junction - High Street - Ormiston Road - waterloo road - Brotherstone way - south Glynn walk - off to Pencaitland. Everyone get teh faster bus. While the X4 can become hourly and goes to Seaton sands
There's no need in my opinion. Pencaitland residents would end up losing the 113 which is vital for going to Musselburgh - and thereby increases its viability and Musselburgh's own connections to Musselburgh, with a combined 15 minute frequency alongside the 124 from Wallyford. Two buses to Edinburgh is not sustainable for Pencaitland, the 113 does quite well in terms of passenger numbers and providing an adequate service.
With this change the link between Prestonpans and Tranent is lost entirely, unless you bring back the 26. As I've previously suggested, I wouldn't mind the possibility of the X4 serving Port Seton via Appin Drive in Prestonpans which opens more connections with the 26 going up West Loan. X6 would return hourly with this, perhaps following its current route from Wallyford (with all expresses following the same route from The Jewel), ensuring no duplication for the X4/X6 in East Lothian, which makes them both viable. 106 following the X6 to the A1 junction then continuing onwards to Musselburgh via Inveresk would be an interesting experiment, however I don't know if it would be worth it. Obviously the 113 would return to the Western General if this happened.
Maybe reroute the X4, starting from Seton Sands to Port Seton and Cockenzie then its current, or slightly different route through Prestonpans. Leave the X5 alone! At least two of my relatives would be quite unhappy if it is removed from Longniddry.
I do think a lot of people forget that there are many factors which come into forming a network, including vehicles, driver availability and to an extent the profitability.
The whole reason I suggested changing the X5 was because that is one change, to a low frequency route, and is therefore lower risk until they see if it gets any additional use. The suggestions above are unlikely to happen as it would be too many changes at once.
Had a very bizarre dream last night where Lothian went crazy with the network changes, one instance was cutting the 26 to run between Eastfield and Seton Sands and for some reason the 25 was cut between Waterloo Place to Riccarton.. and was run by East Coast Buses.
It's interesting what the brain comes up with when your not really trying..
ECB proposal trying to smooth the East Lothian network
Majority of routes unchanged except for:
X7 - truncated at Haddington, retains 20 minute frequency, upgraded to deckers. Uses Market Street / High Street to turn.
108 - New route, Dunbar to Haddington (mirroring current day X7) - 40 minute frequency (to allow clean connections in Haddington with X7 on High Street, turns on Market Street) Using single deckers due to 2x low bridge.
If genuine end to end demand exists (which I'm very, very sceptical about) using vehicles/drivers freed up from the current Haddington Peak relief runs to run X8 - Dunbar - Edinburgh (peak time only) - single decker operated, follows current X7 route but omits Haddington, joining/leaving the A1 at Abbotsview instead of Oaktree. I'd much prefer not to though.
I'd upgrade the X5 to deckers also, one as in peaks it needs it, two it enables 124 interworking, and three so all X routes are standardised around having reliable capacity. It's not a premium service if you regularly can't get on it - a current reality on the X5 and X7 at peaks only getting worse due to ongoing housing growth.
This would change the fleet distribution, but based on current orders I would assign ECB less of the incoming Evoras, but specify all at 12.2m long allowing them to work 108/120/1/3, replacing all existing single deck stock (B7/8RLE & E200 MMC)
Close NB outstation as it no longer serves a purpose as isn't decker suitable. It's NB, the land will be worth a few beans. Cash in. Early morning NB originating runs can dead head from Dunbar Depot by taking the A1 to Thistly Cross roundabout then picking up the A199 and then the 120 route from there to NB.
I'd take the appropriate number of the incoming XLBs to allocate to 113 & 124, taking only enough for those two routes. This sees off the remaining B9TLs. Any slack in the ECB B5TL decker allocation after that and my PVR increase can feed LCB to save on repaints.
The remaining part of the Evora order goes to City for 7900H / B7RLE replacement and LCB get the balance of the XLBs to allow B9TL retirement there.
If my head maths is right this is pretty much PVR neutral but I've increased decker PVR by ~9 and reduced single deck by a similar number. If you run the X8 you'll need to accommodate that though.
Intended result, ECB expresses start functioning reliably at the cost of a few convenient connections on an otherwise quiet end of the network.
ECB proposal trying to smooth the East Lothian network
Majority of routes unchanged except for:
X7 - truncated at Haddington, retains 20 minute frequency, upgraded to deckers. Uses Market Street / High Street to turn.
108 - New route, Dunbar to Haddington (mirroring current day X7) - 40 minute frequency (to allow clean connections in Haddington with X7 on High Street, turns on Market Street) Using single deckers due to 2x low bridge.
If genuine end to end demand exists (which I'm very, very sceptical about) using vehicles/drivers freed up from the current Haddington Peak relief runs to run X8 - Dunbar - Edinburgh (peak time only) - single decker operated, follows current X7 route but omits Haddington, joining/leaving the A1 at Abbotsview instead of Oaktree. I'd much prefer not to though.
I'd upgrade the X5 to deckers also, one as in peaks it needs it, two it enables 124 interworking, and three so all X routes are standardised around having reliable capacity. It's not a premium service if you regularly can't get on it - a current reality on the X5 and X7 at peaks only getting worse due to ongoing housing growth.
This would change the fleet distribution, but based on current orders I would assign ECB less of the incoming Evoras, but specify all at 12.2m long allowing them to work 108/120/1/3, replacing all existing single deck stock (B7/8RLE & E200 MMC)
Close NB outstation as it no longer serves a purpose as isn't decker suitable. It's NB, the land will be worth a few beans. Cash in. Early morning NB originating runs can dead head from Dunbar Depot by taking the A1 to Thistly Cross roundabout then picking up the A199 and then the 120 route from there to NB.
I'd take the appropriate number of the incoming XLBs to allocate to 113 & 124, taking only enough for those two routes. This sees off the remaining B9TLs. Any slack in the ECB B5TL decker allocation after that and my PVR increase can feed LCB to save on repaints.
The remaining part of the Evora order goes to City for 7900H / B7RLE replacement and LCB get the balance of the XLBs to allow B9TL retirement there.
If my head maths is right this is pretty much PVR neutral but I've increased decker PVR by ~9 and reduced single deck by a similar number. If you run the X8 you'll need to accommodate that though.
Intended result, ECB expresses start functioning reliably at the cost of a few convenient connections on an otherwise quiet end of the network.
The X7 is standing by the time it gets to Haddington for Edinburgh all of the time. Demand is high, and also remember the train service is quite poor as well.
The X7 is standing by the time it gets to Haddington for Edinburgh all of the time. Demand is high, and also remember the train service is quite poor as well.
I agree. Though if the Train Operators, Network Rail and Transport Scotland could collectively come to a resolution about improving Dunbar and East Linton’s service, the X7 is almost certainly knackered.
The X7 is standing by the time it gets to Haddington for Edinburgh all of the time. Demand is high, and also remember the train service is quite poor as well.
ECB proposal trying to smooth the East Lothian network v2
Majority of routes unchanged except for:
X7 - truncated at Haddington, retains 20 minute frequency, upgraded to deckers. Uses Market Street / High Street to turn.
X8 - New express route, Dunbar to Edinburgh (Frederick Street). All-day 40-minute frequency, upgraded to double-deckers. Starts/Terminates on Dunbar High Street avoiding low railway bridge (have to loop round Dunbar to start via the A1 to start/end the day from Depot.)
Stays on the A199 to bypass East Linton village centre and it's low bridge, serving stops on the main road instead and joining/leaving the A1 at Abbotsview instead of Oaktree bypassing Haddington entirely. Finishes earlier in the evening, handing over to late-night 108 connections like the X5/124.
108 - New local feeder route, Dunbar to Haddington. Consistent all-day 40-minute frequency to allow every 20 minute departures from Dunbar High Street (coordinated with X8) and clean, coordinated connections in Haddington with the X7 on the High Street, turning on Market Street. Operates the old X7 route, going via East Linton village centre to connect the places skipped by the X8 appreciating elderly residents might not manage the additional walk to connect to it. Strictly single-decker operated due to the 2x low bridges on the route. Serves Dunbar Asda to maintain that link.
Both the X8 and 108 run on a complimentary, offset timetable to provide a reliable, combined 20-minute departure frequency from Dunbar High Street throughout the day. (Would love 15 minute for clock face but too much impact on PVR.)
I'd upgrade the X5 to deckers also, one as in peaks it needs it, two it enables better capacity 124 interworking, and three so all X routes are standardised around having reliable capacity. It's not a premium service if you regularly can't get a seat - a current reality on the X5 and X7 at peaks only getting worse due to ongoing housing growth.
This would change the fleet distribution, but based on current orders I would assign ECB less of the incoming Evoras, but specify all at 12.2m long allowing them to work 108/120/121/123, replacing all existing single deck stock (B7/8RLE & E200 MMC).
Close NB outstation as it no longer serves a purpose as isn't decker suitable. It's NB, the land will be worth a few beans. Cash in. Early morning NB originating runs can dead head from Dunbar Depot by taking the A1 to Thistly Cross roundabout then picking up the A199 and then the 120 route from there to NB.
If my amended maths is right this increased PVR by 5 vehicles. Deckers + 14 and singles -9.
I'd take the appropriate number of the incoming XLBs to allocate to 113 & 124, taking only enough for those two routes. This wouldn't allow for the departure of the B9TLs as before, so a solution would need to be found for that (perhaps release B5TLs from City when the current Airlinks XLBs are displaced and refurbished for City.)
The remaining part of the Evora order goes to City for 7900H / B7RLE replacement along with ex ECB B8RLEs and LCB get the balance of the XLBs to allow B9TL retirement there. Again any gap closed with further B5TL/B5LH from City freed by cascading Ex Airlink XLBs. B7RLEs and E200 MMCs can be disposed of.
I will caveat this heavily - I haven't looked at how interworking would function within this, my brain isn't big enough for that. but I've tried to create sufficient overlap to allow for it.
One potential solution to save vehicles and drivers for ECB would be to turn St Andrews Square into a terminating Hub for all express routes, but this would only really work if they smoothed out the ticketing issues the current system would create transferring to City or Tram routes. You'd want to charge people what they currently pay but allow them to finish the journey on the respective connection without penalty.
ECB proposal trying to smooth the East Lothian network v2
Majority of routes unchanged except for:
X7 - truncated at Haddington, retains 20 minute frequency, upgraded to deckers. Uses Market Street / High Street to turn.
X8 - New express route, Dunbar to Edinburgh (Frederick Street). All-day 40-minute frequency, upgraded to double-deckers. Starts/Terminates on Dunbar High Street avoiding low railway bridge (have to loop round Dunbar to start via the A1 to start/end the day from Depot.)
Stays on the A199 to bypass East Linton village centre and it's low bridge, serving stops on the main road instead and joining/leaving the A1 at Abbotsview instead of Oaktree. Finishes earlier in the evening, handing over to late-night 108 connections like the X5/124.
108 - New local feeder route, Dunbar to Haddington. Consistent all-day 40-minute frequency to allow allow every 20 minute departures from Dunbar High Street (coordinated with X8) and clean, coordinated connections in Haddington with the X7 on the High Street, turning on Market Street. Operates the old X7 route, going via East Linton village centre to connect the places skipped by the X8 appreciating elderly residents might not manage the additional walk to connect to it. Strictly single-decker operated due to the 2x low bridges on the route. Serves Dunbar Asda to maintain that link.
Both the X8 and 108 run on a complimentary, offset timetable to provide a reliable, combined 20-minute departure frequency from Dunbar High Street throughout the day. (Would love 15 minute for clock face but too much impact on PVR.)
I'd upgrade the X5 to deckers also, one as in peaks it needs it, two it enables better capacity 124 interworking, and three so all X routes are standardised around having reliable capacity. It's not a premium service if you regularly can't get a seat - a current reality on the X5 and X7 at peaks only getting worse due to ongoing housing growth.
This would change the fleet distribution, but based on current orders I would assign ECB less of the incoming Evoras, but specify all at 12.2m long allowing them to work 108/120/121/123, replacing all existing single deck stock (B7/8RLE & E200 MMC).
Close NB outstation as it no longer serves a purpose as isn't decker suitable. It's NB, the land will be worth a few beans. Cash in. Early morning NB originating runs can dead head from Dunbar Depot by taking the A1 to Thistly Cross roundabout then picking up the A199 and then the 120 route from there to NB.
If my amended maths is right this increased PVR by 5 vehicles. Deckers + 14 and singles -9.
I'd take the appropriate number of the incoming XLBs to allocate to 113 & 124, taking only enough for those two routes. This wouldn't allow for the departure of the B9TLs as before, so a solution would need to be found for that (perhaps release B5TLs from City when the current Airlinks XLBs are displaced and refurbished for City.)
The remaining part of the Evora order goes to City for 7900H / B7RLE replacement along with ex ECB B8RLEs and LCB get the balance of the XLBs to allow B9TL retirement there. Again any gap closed with further B5TL/B5LH from City freed by cascading Ex Airlink XLBs. B7RLEs and E200 MMCs can be disposed of.
I will caveat this heavily - I haven't looked at how interworking would function within this, my brain isn't big enough for that. but I've tried to create sufficient overlap to allow for it.
One potential solution to save vehicles and drivers for ECB would be to turn St Andrews Square into a terminating Hub for all express routes, but this would only really work if they smoothed out the ticketing issues the current system would create transferring to City or Tram routes. You'd want to charge people what they currently pay but allow them to finish the journey on the respective connection without penalty.
I think you exaggerate a bit. The X7 Haddington to Edinburgh is not always full. I used it last week, late morning, and seats were no more than 50 per cent occupied. I'm a regular user of the X5 at all times and only occasionally are there any standees and even then there are some seats usually available, but passengers choose not to use them - especially for short hops within Edinburgh.
I think you exaggerate a bit. The X7 Haddington to Edinburgh is not always full. I used it last week, late morning, and seats were no more than 50 per cent occupied. I'm a regular user of the X5 at all times and only occasionally are there any standees and even then there are some seats usually available, but passengers choose not to use them - especially for short hops within Edinburgh.
Appreciate the opinion, several years ago I would regularly stand from the west side of Haddington on the X7 at peaks and now get to do the same from Blindwells on the X5 so it's reflective of both my experience and trying to accommodate the ongoing housing growth in both areas proactively (like I believe the X4 was/is an attempt to do.)
Appreciate the opinion, several years ago I would regularly stand from the west side of Haddington on the X7 at peaks and now get to do the same from Blindwells on the X5 so it's reflective of both my experience and trying to accommodate the ongoing housing growth in both areas proactively (like I believe the X4 was/is an attempt to do.)
Maybe standing is more common on the first two morning X5s from Blindwells into city? I use those services less often. If it's like the trains from Longniddry maybe they are much more heavily used Tuesday to Thursday - as can be seen by the station car park usage. After 0930 then I'm pretty sure there are normally seats available on the X5, though still some choose to stand.
ECB proposal trying to smooth the East Lothian network
Majority of routes unchanged except for:
X7 - truncated at Haddington, retains 20 minute frequency, upgraded to deckers. Uses Market Street / High Street to turn.
108 - New route, Dunbar to Haddington (mirroring current day X7) - 40 minute frequency (to allow clean connections in Haddington with X7 on High Street, turns on Market Street) Using single deckers due to 2x low bridge.
If genuine end to end demand exists (which I'm very, very sceptical about) using vehicles/drivers freed up from the current Haddington Peak relief runs to run X8 - Dunbar - Edinburgh (peak time only) - single decker operated, follows current X7 route but omits Haddington, joining/leaving the A1 at Abbotsview instead of Oaktree. I'd much prefer not to though.
Bit late to the party on this however as LothianBusesPh has said, the train service is very minimal (~1 train an hour at most), and the X7 tends to be very well used for passengers travelling from east of Haddington into Edinburgh - in the ~15 times I’ve gotten it east of Haddington it has been anyway - so I think EastCoastBuses would be shooting themselves in the foot curtailing it to Haddington.
There might be an argument to made about curtailing it to Dunbar town centre since I’ve never seen more than about four people on an X7 past the station to negate the low bridge problem at Spott Road, but at the same time I’ve seen as much as about 8 people getting on the X7 in East Linton for Edinburgh so omitting the low bridge there aswell just to be able to use deckers wouldn’t be the greatest idea ever.
Off peak the X7 seems to manage fine enough but I definitely think some extra runs should be introduced at peak times between Edinburgh & Haddington since I can’t recall ever seeing a peak X7 that wasn’t at the point of having upwards of 5 standing passengers, decker runs between Haddington & Edinburgh excepted.
Off peak the X7 seems to manage fine enough but I definitely think some extra runs should be introduced at peak times between Edinburgh & Haddington since I can’t recall ever seeing a peak X7 that wasn’t at the point of having upwards of 5 standing passengers, decker runs between Haddington & Edinburgh excepted.
This happens off-peak as well despite the 20 minute frequency. Another issue is Paisley Drive and to an extent Meadowbank and Abbeyhill. I firmly believe X4/5/6/7 should be pick up and drop off only between the city and The Jewel. Last X7 at night on weekends is an example, where there has been many times where buses fail to clear and some passengers heading to Haddington/Dunbar cannot get home whereas there is still dozens of passengers getting off in that section. The current stock's 40 seating capacity doesn't help, mind you.
This happens off-peak as well despite the 20 minute frequency. Another issue is Paisley Drive and to an extent Meadowbank and Abbeyhill. I firmly believe X4/5/6/7 should be pick up and drop off only between the city and The Jewel. Last X7 at night on weekends is an example, where there has been many times where buses fail to clear and some passengers heading to Haddington/Dunbar cannot get home whereas there is still dozens of passengers getting off in that section. The current stock's 40 seating capacity doesn't help, mind you.
I don't want to sound like a scratched record, the housing growth is the elephant in the room.
Let's say for arguments sake every 1,000 houses they add there are two adults in them. Let's say just 1 in 40 of those 2,000 adults want to commute to Edinburgh. That's 50 people. That's enough passengers to fill an empty ECB single to the gunnels.
East Lothian Council has a statutory obligation to add a minimum of 6,500 homes between 2023 and 2033 under NPF4. Haddington is still growing and Blindwells is set to absorb most of the heavy lifting.
Those people will fail to board a bus a few times after they move and then sack it off and go somewhere else. More clogged roads. More clogged trains.
ScotRail need a plan too, and the ECML being choked makes that damn near impossible. I'm hearing nothing in that direction either.
This is why tying to convince people this isn't an issue doesn't land with me at all.
I think the X7 doesn’t warrant meaningful change until the rail service is ever improved. The current route is the best balance and the Evora’s will hopefully provide a better capacity when introduced. If the rail service ever transitions to a proper consistent service, at that point the X7 could realistically drop to being an Edinburgh to Haddington decker shuttle every 30 minutes, with the 106 extended to Dunbar remaining hourly - provided it would work well with singles as a Royal Infirmary to Dunbar route. 120 could tie in nicely with the 106 to offer a half hourly service between East Linton and Dunbar ASDA during the day and connections available between the X7 and 106 for those that need them.
The big question though remains whether or not the train service will actually improve. Unfortunately there are still TransPennine and ScotRail services that run too close together and then massive gaps as a result. It is better now than when East Linton opened, however Dunbar’s overall service is in my opinion actually poorer now.
Space on the East Coast Mainline is tight, but the future hopefully gives a chance to rethink what services stop where and maybe then this poor service for these two stations will actually match their capabilities.
I think the X7 doesn’t warrant meaningful change until the rail service is ever improved. The current route is the best balance and the Evora’s will hopefully provide a better capacity when introduced. If the rail service ever transitions to a proper consistent service, at that point the X7 could realistically drop to being an Edinburgh to Haddington decker shuttle every 30 minutes, with the 106 extended to Dunbar remaining hourly - provided it would work well with singles as a Royal Infirmary to Dunbar route. 120 could tie in nicely with the 106 to offer a half hourly service between East Linton and Dunbar ASDA during the day and connections available between the X7 and 106 for those that need them.
The big question though remains whether or not the train service will actually improve. Unfortunately there are still TransPennine and ScotRail services that run too close together and then massive gaps as a result. It is better now than when East Linton opened, however Dunbar’s overall service is in my opinion actually poorer now.
Space on the East Coast Mainline is tight, but the future hopefully gives a chance to rethink what services stop where and maybe then this poor service for these two stations will actually match their capabilities.
I'm pretty sure that the recast of the ECML rail timetable (implemented last December) does allow for a twice hourly service from North Berwick to Waverley. This has now been taken up by ScotRail on Saturdays and, subject to staffing and rolling stock availability, this could also be the case on Monday to Friday.
I'm pretty sure that the recast of the ECML rail timetable (implemented last December) does allow for a twice hourly service from North Berwick to Waverley. This has now been taken up by ScotRail on Saturdays and, subject to staffing and rolling stock availability, this could also be the case on Monday to Friday.
There have never been any plans to make that service half hourly during the day on weekdays and indeed it probably isn’t even necessary. However, East Linton and Dunbar which currently receive only the 2 hourly ScotRail and 2 hourly TransPennine - with a few extras on top, is nowhere near what they should be getting. During the day on weekdays, these 2 hourly trains typically leave within 5 minutes or so of each other out of Edinburgh, meaning it’s actually a near 2 hour wait for the next service to East Linton.
Here's my ideas for a potential change in an ideal world
Altered Routes
X28 Wester Inch to Edinburgh
Frequency: 3bph
Termini:
Leyland Roundabout, Wester Inch
Regent Road, Edinburgh
Via:
Wester Inch
Bathgate
Tesco Distribution Depot
Deans North
Knightsridge
Ladywell
St. John’s Hospital
Craigshill
Livingston Bus Terminal
Mid Calder
East Calder
Kirknewton
Wilkieston
Hermiston
Calder Road
Balgreen Road
Lothian Road
Princes Street
X17 Blackridge to Edinburgh Airport (Sister route to X18, runs in between it creating a tri-hourly service for the Armadale-Ratho trunk)
Frequency: 1bph
Termini:
Langside Drive, Blackridge
Edinburgh Airport
Via:
Blackridge
Armadale
Bathgate
Tesco Distribution Depot
Dechmont
Uphall
Broxburn
Newbridge
Ratho Station
Ingliston Park and Ride
Edinburgh Airport
72 Fauldhouse to Broxburn
Frequency: 2bph
Termini:
Lanrigg Road, Fauldhouse
East Mains Industrial Estate, Broxburn
Via:
Fauldhouse
Longrigg
Whitburn
East Whitburn
Blackburn
Seafield
Livingston Village
St. John’s Hospital
Livingston Bus Terminal
Howden
Craigshill
Pumpherston
Uphall Station
Uphall
Broxburn
East Mains Industrial Estate
X18 Whitburn to Edinburgh
Frequency: 2bph
Termini:
Heartlands Services
Regend Road, Edinburgh
Via:
Heartlands Services
Whitburn
Armadale
Bathgate
Tesco Distribution Depot
Dechmont
Uphall
Broxburn
Newbridge
Ratho Station
RBS Gogarburn
Corstorphine
Edinburgh Zoo
Haymarket
West End
Princes Street
Regent Road
74 Whitburn to Livingston
Frequency: 1bph
Termini:
Lanrigg Road, Fauldhouse
Livingston Bus Terminal
Via:
Fauldhouse
Bents
Stoneyburn
Loganlea
Addiewell
West Calder
Polbeth
Adambrae
Dedridge
Livingston Bus Terminal
43 Winchburgh to Edinburgh
Frequency: 3bph
Termini:
Winchburgh Schools
Regent Road, Edinburgh
Via:
Winchburgh
Kirkliston
Queensferry
Barnton
Queensferry Road
Craigleith Retail Park
Queensferry Street
Princes Street
Regent Road
71 Winchburgh to Gyle Centre
Frequency: 1bph
Termini:
Winchburgh Schools
Gyle Centre
Via:
Winchburgh
Kirkliston
Newbridge
Ratho Station
Gyle Centre
New Routes
75 Armadale to Bathgate
Frequency: 1bph
Termini:
Armadale Academy
Bathgate Morrisons
Via:
Armadale
Whitburn
Blackburn
Bathgate
76 Deans to Murieston
Frequency: 1bph
Termini:
Tesco Distribution Centre
Livingston South Railway Station
Via:
Tesco Distribution Centre
Deans South
Livingston North Railway Station
Eliburn
Alderstone Road (For St. John’s Hospital)
Howden
Livingston Bus Terminal
Adambrae
Bankton
Murieston
Livingston South Railway Station
Unchanged Routes
73 Armadale to Livingston
X27 Bathgate to Edinburgh
70 Gyle Centre to Hermiston Park and Ride
X40 Livingston to Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh
Cut Route
X19 Winchburgh to Edinburgh
The N43 only takes 7 minutes longer from Winchburgh to Edinburgh than the X19 does, obviously this is late night traffic but I think even during the day it wouldn't be that much longer, and with the train station opening sometime in the foreseeable future, and it not being that much of a detour, it seems like an easy cut for PVR's sake.
X17 Blackridge to Edinburgh Airport (Sister route to X18, runs in between it creating a tri-hourly service for the Armadale-Ratho trunk)
Frequency: 1bph
Termini:
Langside Drive, Blackridge
Edinburgh Airport
Via:
Blackridge
Armadale
Bathgate
Tesco Distribution Depot
Dechmont
Uphall
Broxburn
Newbridge
Ratho Station
Ingliston Park and Ride
Edinburgh Airport
I can't help but see this being lightly used, the new E19 is already serving Uphall and Broxburn to the Airport. In the the best case scenario you'd either have to terminate it in Broxburn or send it to Winchburgh or send all the way to Edinburgh.
Also you seem to have removed a link between Livingston, Uphall, Broxburn and Winchburgh which under tender so is unlikely to be withdrawn.
Part of me wonders if the 36 will be curtailed to Hermiston Gait, to allow for better reliability. As a result, the 2 would be re-extended to the Gyle and the 22 changed to part replace the 36 by having it continue along to Bankhead roundabout and following the 18 from there to the Gyle, but still serving South Gyle Broadway. Not saying this one is likely, but the 36 has been struggling with reliability of late.
West Craigs will likely still not be served until the dispute between Lothian and the Council is resolved. The 32 can only pick up West Craigs if it gets a frequency increase.
I’d suggest cutting the 4 back to The Jewel and rerouting the 15 and/or 45 to serve Queen Margaret again. The 4 is overkill for it in terms of a 7 day a week service. They could simply cut the 4 back to be at certain times only which may be simpler.
On a personal note, Granton Square is a mess in terms of its layout, which was brought in fairly recently. So I’d like to see that sorted out. 19 terminating at Oxcraig Street and a simple square system of one stop on each side. The stops at Corinthian Quay, Granton Medway and the 9 stop at the start of Granton Road would be removed. The 22 and X37 would be the only services that would continue to bypass one of the stops, as they of course loop round the square. Though if the 19 was revised to pick up the Harbour, there’s probably a serious argument for taking away the 22 from there altogether provided the Waterfront was given a suitable replacement offering. 22 being curtailed to West Granton or even rerouted to Muirhouse. This would give that part to West Granton Road a fast bus to the West End.
The current layout means it’s a bit of a pain to switch between the 16/17 and 9 if you need that.
There’s bound to be other things, but nothing obvious that jumps to me that feels likely.
Part of me wonders if the 36 will be curtailed to Hermiston Gait, to allow for better reliability. As a result, the 2 would be re-extended to the Gyle and the 22 changed to part replace the 36 by having it continue along to Bankhead roundabout and following the 18 from there to the Gyle, but still serving South Gyle Broadway. Not saying this one is likely, but the 36 has been struggling with reliability of late.
If the 36 does get cut back, will extending the 2 make it even better? I suppose as long as the link is still there, with the Tram and the 32.
With the way they keep changing the 22 over the years, I'm not sure what they could do with it next, honestly how well has the last change held up? I've only used the 22 twice since February and it is handy having the link between Gyle and Chesser, but I can't help but feel like this is something an enchanted 20 could accomplish.
West Craigs will likely still not be served until the dispute between Lothian and the Council is resolved. The 32 can only pick up West Craigs if it gets a frequency increase.
I’d suggest cutting the 4 back to The Jewel and rerouting the 15 and/or 45 to serve Queen Margaret again. The 4 is overkill for it in terms of a 7 day a week service. They could simply cut the 4 back to be at certain times only which may be simpler.
On a personal note, Granton Square is a mess in terms of its layout, which was brought in fairly recently. So I’d like to see that sorted out. 19 terminating at Oxcraig Street and a simple square system of one stop on each side. The stops at Corinthian Quay, Granton Medway and the 9 stop at the start of Granton Road would be removed. The 22 and X37 would be the only services that would continue to bypass one of the stops, as they of course loop round the square. Though if the 19 was revised to pick up the Harbour, there’s probably a serious argument for taking away the 22 from there altogether provided the Waterfront was given a suitable replacement offering. 22 being curtailed to West Granton or even rerouted to Muirhouse. This would give that part to West Granton Road a fast bus to the West End.
I live in Wallyford and always see the 44 bunched up in twos or threes by the time they get here. There's clearly reliable reliability issues on the route.
Would it be worth curtailing the 44 short, say at The Jewel and running a service from City Centre to Wallyford, perhaps twice or three times an hour running express within the city? I guess the same could be suggested with regards the 26 to Seton Sands.
Constant reliability issues and woefully long journey times on both routes, something has to give. I appreciate that the 26 & 44 combined provide 11 buses per hour between Musselburgh and Edinburgh and a solution would need to be found to solve that problem as well. Traffic in Musselburgh itself really doesn't help matters and there isn't any conceivable measures that could be implements to loosen things up a bit as best I can tell.
I live in Wallyford and always see the 44 bunched up in twos or threes by the time they get here. There's clearly reliable reliability issues on the route.
Would it be worth curtailing the 44 short, say at The Jewel and running a service from City Centre to Wallyford, perhaps twice or three times an hour running express within the city? I guess the same could be suggested with regards the 26 to Seton Sands.
Constant reliability issues and woefully long journey times on both routes, something has to give. I appreciate that the 26 & 44 combined provide 11 buses per hour between Musselburgh and Edinburgh and a solution would need to be found to solve that problem as well. Traffic in Musselburgh itself really doesn't help matters and there isn't any conceivable measures that could be implements to loosen things up a bit as best I can tell.
So essentially the idea is to enhance the X4? The only change I could see with the 44 is either they leave it as it or, or cut it back/extend it, I don't see them extending the 44 back to Tranent anytime soon unless the 113 gets cut down to hourly, the only other option I could see is them splitting the 44 so it prioritises the Western part of the route, with East Coast enhancing the Wallyford section.
Honestly I think East Lothian have enough express options, even the non express services are limited stops now, I really think they should leave the 26/44 alone and not drastically change them too much, because as we know, the general public love change!
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Here are a few changes I had in my head that might be fitting, they may be relevent or inspired by recent posts.
2 - Extended to Gyle Centre on all days.
4 - Curtailed to Asda (QMU still served by 30, 106 and revised 15/45)
13 - Council Tender won, revised timetable.
15 - Extended to Queen Margaret University from King's Road (replacing Service 4), runs every 30 minutes combined with Service 45 between Abbeyhill and QMU making a 15 minute frequency.
18 - Later journeys introduced from The Airport to Fort Kinnaird on all days of the week, Saturday service increased to every 30 minutes.
20- Extended to Gyle Centre via Bankhead and Hermiston Gait, later journeys introduced on all days of the week.
22 - Frequency increased to every 20 minutes.
28 - NEW SERVICE (Ocean Terminal - West Granton) via The Shore, Leith Walk, Leith Street, Princess Street, West End, Murrayfield, Corstorphine, Drum Brae, Davidson Mains, Muirhouse. [Every 30 minutes Monday - Sunday]
32 - Frequency increased to every 40 minutes Monday - Saturday with later journeys from both directions, new Sunday service introduced, will serve West Craig's once given permission.
36 - Service curtailed to Hermiston Gait, (Service 32 and extended 2 and 20 will serve Gyle), later journeys depart from Hermiston Gait.
39 - Service extended from Polton to Rosewell, and extended to Royal Infirmary via Sheriffhall (Woodburn and Dalkeith Heights served by revised 49)
45 - Extended to Queen Margaret from Kings Road Monday - Saturday, buses will co-ordinate with extended 15 to make 15 min frequency, Sunday buses will extend to Eastfield terminus.
49 - Service extended from Royal Infirmary to Dalkeith Heights via Sheriffhall, Dalkeith and Woodburn (replacing Service 39 in those areas)
100 - Now serves Ingilston Park and Ride and Gogarburn (city bound only)
N22 - SERVICE REINTRODUCED., East Craigs to Princess Street via Lothian Road (then current 22 route to South Gyle), Gyle Roundabout, Maybury, West Craigs? then East Craig Terminus, hourly Monday to Sunday.
N25 - Service extended to Restalrig via Leith and Lochend.
So essentially the idea is to enhance the X4? The only change I could see with the 44 is either they leave it as it or, or cut it back/extend it, I don't see them extending the 44 back to Tranent anytime soon unless the 113 gets cut down to hourly, the only other option I could see is them splitting the 44 so it prioritises the Western part of the route, with East Coast enhancing the Wallyford section.
Honestly I think East Lothian have enough express options, even the non express services are limited stops now, I really think they should leave the 26/44 alone and not drastically change them too much, because as we know, the general public love change!
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Here are a few changes I had in my head that might be fitting, they may be relevent or inspired by recent posts.
2 - Extended to Gyle Centre on all days.
4 - Curtailed to Asda (QMU still served by 30, 106 and revised 15/45)
13 - Council Tender won, revised timetable.
15 - Extended to Queen Margaret University from King's Road (replacing Service 4), runs every 30 minutes combined with Service 45 between Abbeyhill and QMU making a 15 minute frequency.
18 - Later journeys introduced from The Airport to Fort Kinnaird on all days of the week, Saturday service increased to every 30 minutes.
20- Extended to Gyle Centre via Bankhead and Hermiston Gait, later journeys introduced on all days of the week.
22 - Frequency increased to every 20 minutes.
28 - NEW SERVICE (Ocean Terminal - West Granton) via The Shore, Leith Walk, Leith Street, Princess Street, West End, Murrayfield, Corstorphine, Drum Brae, Davidson Mains, Muirhouse. [Every 30 minutes Monday - Sunday]
32 - Frequency increased to every 40 minutes Monday - Saturday with later journeys from both directions, new Sunday service introduced, will serve West Craig's once given permission.
36 - Service curtailed to Hermiston Gait, (Service 32 and extended 2 and 20 will serve Gyle), later journeys depart from Hermiston Gait.
39 - Service extended from Polton to Rosewell, and extended to Royal Infirmary via Sheriffhall (Woodburn and Dalkeith Heights served by revised 49)
45 - Extended to Queen Margaret from Kings Road Monday - Saturday, buses will co-ordinate with extended 15 to make 15 min frequency, Sunday buses will extend to Eastfield terminus.
49 - Service extended from Royal Infirmary to Dalkeith Heights via Sheriffhall, Dalkeith and Woodburn (replacing Service 39 in those areas)
100 - Now serves Ingilston Park and Ride and Gogarburn (city bound only)
N22 - SERVICE REINTRODUCED., East Craigs to Princess Street via Lothian Road (then current 22 route to South Gyle), Gyle Roundabout, Maybury, West Craigs? then East Craig Terminus, hourly Monday to Sunday.
N25 - Service extended to Restalrig via Leith and Lochend.
In my head I thought city bound would make more sense, as airport bound, they may not want folk using the 100 to travel to the likes of Gogar when they have plenty of other options.
In my head I thought city bound would make more sense, as airport bound, they may not want folk using the 100 to travel to the likes of Gogar when they have plenty of other options.
People could travel to those places anyway.
In my opinion it makes sense for a route to be symmetrical in both directions where possible- meaning each direction serves the same places to minimise confusion with passengers.
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