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Probably a common question but not quite sure of the answer - where do I send my claim? The delay to the Avanti service would have caused me to miss my connection at Lancaster, but the delay to the Northern service meant I made it, and my final delay was due to the Northern service departing late from Lancaster.
Probably a common question but not quite sure of the answer - where do I send my claim? The delay to the Avanti service would have caused me to miss my connection at Lancaster, but the delay to the Northern service meant I made it, and my final delay was due to the Northern service departing late from Lancaster.
I had a similar situation last year, with my first train (LNW) being late enough to foul the minimum connecting time, but in my case the second train (Avanti) was cancelled.
I applied common sense and claimed from Avanti, who rejected it on the grounds that it was LNW's fault - and LNW duly paid.
So following that logic, it should be Avanti paying this time - good luck!
Avanti caused the first consequential delay and they must pay. That another train also ran late subsequently is not in play. Only the first material delay matters and if they foul your connection that is that, really.
Avanti caused the first consequential delay and they must pay. That another train also ran late subsequently is not in play. Only the first material delay matters and if they foul your connection that is that, really.
I've found in practice that even if it theoretically fouls a connection that is enough, i.e. the later train being delayed so you actually make it (but then are further delayed on it resulting in a claim) doesn't affect that it's the first TOC that pays.
I will report on my recent experience here rather than start a new thread.
I had an interesting delay repay situation 3 weeks ago on Wednesday 8th April. I was travelling from Nottingham to Dundee and the outward journey should have been:
Nottingham dep 0745 to Manchester Piccadilly arr 0935 (EMR).
Manchester Piccadilly dep 1021 to Haymarket arr 1327 (TPE)
Haymarket dep 1333 to Dundee arr 1442 (Scotrail)
There were no problems as far as Manchester with an on time arrival at Piccadilly giving me plenty of time to get a coffee. The 1021 TPE train was advertised as being on time and so about 10 minutes before departure time I made my way back to Platform 14. Around 5 minutes before the Edinburgh train was due to arrive there was an emergency evacuation of station. After descending numerous flights of crowded stairs carrying a heavy case I stood on the pavement on the road between the main station and platforms 13 and 14 as my train arrived and departed.
When the station was finally reopened and about 15 minutes later we were allowed back into the station and onto platforms, the first train to arrive was a delayed train to Blackpool North. I got on this to Preston where I only had a few minutes to wait for an Avanti train to Edinburgh. Fortunately at Edinburgh I was able to get a delayed LNER train to Dundee resulting in arrival at around 1610, so around 90 minutes late.
The ticket office staff at Dundee had no idea who I should claim delay pay from as it was a station evacuation and not a delayed train. I decided to try and claim delay repay from TPE but was expecting problems. However, they accepted it with no problem and I received the correct repay of 50% of my Off Peak Return fare within a week. A good news story in my case. Fortunately I knew what to do to continue my journey by quickly boarding the Blackpool North train to Preston, but I’m sure many passengers who had missed the Edinburgh train would not have known what to do in time.
I had a experience with a delayed GWR service from Bristol which meant I would miss my connection at Newport for the TFW service to Hereford .In the event my planned TFW service was cancelled so the GWR delay was in theory irrelevant regarding the final delay. I was advised to claim from GWR as it was the first delay and they paid straight away , no quibble.
A couple of months ago I had a claim where an Avanti service was delayed and the connecting LNR/WMR service was cancelled. I would have made the connecting service if it had run so my claim went to WMR. It was then forwarded to Avanti who rejected it and sent it back to WMR and so on. It was eventually paid by WMR after I made contact with them on TwiX, but I'm still being asked for further information on the additional claim references that were raised!
I had a experience with a delayed GWR service from Bristol which meant I would miss my connection at Newport for the TFW service to Hereford .In the event my planned TFW service was cancelled so the GWR delay was in theory irrelevant regarding the final delay. I was advised to claim from GWR as it was the first delay and they paid straight away , no quibble.
Yes, I would agree that in this case GWR would be liable on the basis that you wouldn't know the onward train was cancelled. It may seem counter-intuitive, and some TOCs may push back, but most people report success in this scenario.
However, in the event of making a connection, and the onward service being late, it's generally - but not universally - accepted that you would claim from the onward service, not the original one.
Probably a common question but not quite sure of the answer - where do I send my claim? The delay to the Avanti service would have caused me to miss my connection at Lancaster, but the delay to the Northern service meant I made it, and my final delay was due to the Northern service departing late from Lancaster.
Poole to Edinburgh via London. The SWR train was delayed 20 mins, but I still very easily got to Kings Cross in time for the LNER departure; I think I was waiting at Kings Cross for about 15-20 minutes. The LNER train was then delayed due to a late running Cross Country train in front, and...
www.railforums.co.uk
Summary: SWR train was late into London, but the customer comfortably made the connection. LNER then delayed the customer. Some people say SWR are liable, but the concensus is that LNER are liable.
In theory, this sort of issue will go away once Delay Repay claims are able to be done centrally, rather than being made to operators who are so desperate to annoy their customers that they will claim that another operator is to blame, even when they delayed that customer and don't quibble about paying when other customers purely use their own train.
A couple of months ago I had a claim where an Avanti service was delayed and the connecting LNR/WMR service was cancelled. I would have made the connecting service if it had run so my claim went to WMR. It was then forwarded to Avanti who rejected it and sent it back to WMR and so on. It was eventually paid by WMR after I made contact with them on TwiX, but I'm still being asked for further information on the additional claim references that were raised!
Personally, I would have raised an appeal with WMR as soon as they first forwarded it to Avanti. That forces the original TOC to reconsider in parallel with the second TOC, rather than let it descend into a ping pong situation with all the associated delays. That is now my standard response to a TOC deciding to forward a claim of mine, as unfortunately many TOCs are all too ready to try and slopey-shoulder claims.
Thanks all for replies/advice. Went for Avanti and claim was rejected/forwarded to Northern via their automated system in a matter of minutes.
"We have checked the journey you have claimed for and our records show that this service was operated by another train operator (Northern). Therefore, we are unable to process your claim."
Let's see what Northern make of it...
Thanks all for replies/advice. Went for Avanti and claim was rejected/forwarded to Northern via their automated system in a matter of minutes.
"We have checked the journey you have claimed for and our records show that this service was operated by another train operator (Northern). Therefore, we are unable to process your claim."
Let's see what Northern make of it...
As per my previous advice, don't just wait for Northern to send it back to Avanti, and for it to descend into a prolonged ping-pong match between the two. Avanti are the ones who should be paying, so appeal Avanti's decision NOW. You have nothing to lose by doing so. It won't stop Northern considering the claim if it has been raised on their system.
Thanks all for replies/advice. Went for Avanti and claim was rejected/forwarded to Northern via their automated system in a matter of minutes.
"We have checked the journey you have claimed for and our records show that this service was operated by another train operator (Northern). Therefore, we are unable to process your claim."
Let's see what Northern make of it...
As per my previous advice, don't just wait for Northern to send it back to Avanti, and for it to descend into a prolonged ping-pong match between the two. Avanti are the ones who should be paying, so appeal Avanti's decision NOW. You have nothing to lose by doing so. It won't stop Northern considering the claim if it has been raised on their system.
Apologies if I wasn't clear - I was suggesting that the OP should immediately appeal Avanti's rejection of the claim. That will get both Avanti and Northern considering the claim in parallel.
Previous posters have reasoned that it is Avanti who are responsible. However, the important thing is not to sit back and passively allow it to descend into a protracted game of ping-pong between the two TOCs.
By way of a final update Northern approved the claim forwarded from Avanti quickly (I've just been slow in returning here to say so). I could see both arguments so wasn't inclined to appeal until I was a little further into ping-pong between them!
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