West Midlands Trains "Destination Manchester" - will it happen?

[Xenophon PCDGS]

When the December timetable is offered in June and this is either confirmed or not, that will happen. You don't do that when the timetable isn't finished.

Of course, but I am sure that what seems to be common knowledge on this particular thread will not be known to quite a good percentage of Styal Line commuters travelling past Manchester Airport to Holmes Chapel, Sandbach or Crewe, whilst the Midlands-based TOC seems to have full permission to advertise this new service on websites such as this prior to the offering of the December 2026 timetable in Júne 2026.

 

[lowe1409]

I do wonder how much of LNWR taking over the Crewe-Manchester Airport section is to benefit Bee Network - as Greater Manchester are taking over local services on the Didsbury Line by December 2027. By splitting the Crewe-Airport-Piccadilly service in two, it would be logistically easier for Bee Network to plan its network - even though it would cut through connectivity from Didsbury to Crewe

Feels bizarre if it is. Tfgm have announced they're also taking over to elderly edge as well. Feels weird as it leaves a styal sized hole in the network.

 

[RealTrains07]

Personally, I would welcome this service as a cheaper alternative to get to birmingham and easier access to manchester airport and means the crewe via stoke is no longer just a small shuttle requiring changes to actually get anywhere useful.

LNR have been talking about this for a long time even when they were still a part of transport uk group and i am really pleased to finally see plans moving forward. Just hope it does to fruition and is able to commence in December 26 / this year as mentioned.

 

[The Mercian]

It would be even better if they actually tried to build the Western approach to Manchester Airport from the Mid Cheshire. You could then stick this service up the Sandbach to Northwich line and avoid buggering about with the Crewe to Wilmslow line too much. However it’s too expensive so this’ll have to do for the foreseeable.

 

[The Planner]

It would be even better if they actually tried to build the Western approach to Manchester Airport from the Mid Cheshire. You could then stick this service up the Sandbach to Northwich line and avoid buggering about with the Crewe to Wilmslow line too much. However it’s too expensive so this’ll have to do for the foreseeable.

Blimey, and people are saying going via Stoke is a dog leg. That solution would require more crossing moves of existing lines than the current proposal and a shed load more time.

 

[The Mercian]

Blimey, and people are saying going via Stoke is a dog leg. That solution would require more crossing moves of existing lines than the current proposal and a shed load more time.

Well it is a speculative thread, though point taken.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As this newly proposed service does impinge upon areas that Mayor Burnham of Greater Manchester sees as being part of his Bee Network master plan that covers buses, trams and trains and will surely be a matter that has been brought to his attention, has he made any officially known view of the matter.?

 

[Bald Rick]

and will surely be a matter that has been brought to his attention

That’s an unsafe assumption.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

As this newly proposed service does impinge upon areas that Mayor Burnham of Greater Manchester sees as being part of his Bee Network master plan that covers buses, trams and trains and will surely be a matter that has been brought to his attention, has he made any officially known view of the matter.?

A service running 1 stop into Greater Manchester is unlikely to have significant impact on any Bee Network rail, the only impact may be a lower vehicle requirement needing painting since the Airport - Crewe leg of the Piccadilly - Airport - Crewe is being passed to LNWR.

 

[daodao]

A service running 1 stop into Greater Manchester is unlikely to have significant impact on any Bee Network rail, the only impact may be a lower vehicle requirement needing painting since the Airport - Crewe leg of the Piccadilly - Airport - Crewe is being passed to LNWR.

One consequence would be a further reduction in cross-boundary public transport connectivity between East Cheshire and Greater Manchester, which is already poor.

IMO, it would be better just to extend the existing Northern service from Manchester via Styal to Stoke, and add an hourly stop at Stone to the Birmingham-Stoke-Macclesfield-Manchester service.

 

[Topological]

One consequence would be a further reduction in cross-boundary public transport connectivity between East Cheshire and Greater Manchester, which is already poor.

IMO, it would be better just to extend the existing Northern service from Manchester via Styal to Stoke, and add an hourly stop at Stone to the Birmingham-Stoke-Macclesfield-Manchester service.

Would that not represent a significant reduction in capacity between Birmingham and Stoke compared to the West Midlands Trains Airport proposal?

 

[lowe1409]

One consequence would be a further reduction in cross-boundary public transport connectivity between East Cheshire and Greater Manchester, which is already poor.

As others have already pointed out however, a change at the airport would not significantly impact this as changing at the airport is already quicker than the direct train to Manchester as the existing service already arrives at xx.52 and doesn't leave the airport until xx.07

 

[The Planner]

One consequence would be a further reduction in cross-boundary public transport connectivity between East Cheshire and Greater Manchester, which is already poor.

IMO, it would be better just to extend the existing Northern service from Manchester via Styal to Stoke, and add an hourly stop at Stone to the Birmingham-Stoke-Macclesfield-Manchester service.

Why would you add a stop at Stone in the XC service with all the operational constraints that adds? Why can't the existing LNWR service keep it?

 

[daodao]

Would that not represent a significant reduction in capacity between Birmingham and Stoke compared to the West Midlands Trains Airport proposal?

I would operate 2 tph 8-coach emus between Manchester and Birmingham via Macclesfield, extending towards Birmingham International and beyond.

 

[Topological]

I would operate 2 tph 8-coach emus between Manchester and Birmingham via Macclesfield, extending towards Birmingham International and beyond.

Same, but that ignites the whole "direct" debate and the "Birmingham New Street" issue, so we should base comments on this thread on it being CrossCountry providing the Stoke to Birmingham trains with Voyagers.

Holding all else constant, this new Birmingham to Manchester Airport service does have many benefits.

 

[The exile]

As others have already pointed out however, a change at the airport would not significantly impact this as changing at the airport is already quicker than the direct train to Manchester as the existing service already arrives at xx.52 and doesn't leave the airport until xx.07

Speed is not the only factor though. A change increases the chances of a cancellation and raises people’s anxiety about connections. I know we’re back to the “through trains to everywhere” argument…

 

[Bletchleyite]

Speed is not the only factor though. A change increases the chances of a cancellation and raises people’s anxiety about connections. I know we’re back to the “through trains to everywhere” argument…

I don't think this is an entirely unreasonable through train to want - people in those places are much more likely to want Manchester than Birmingham. I'm less enamoured with the WMT idea now I'm aware it replaces rather than supplements the Northern service, to be honest.

 

[87015]

I don't think this is an entirely unreasonable through train to want - people in those places are much more likely to want Manchester than Birmingham. I'm less enamoured with the WMT idea now I'm aware it replaces rather than supplements the Northern service, to be honest.

I don’t think it can really be sold as a replacement, as the 350s can’t keep to timings so it drops stops compared to the Northern service, AIUI from the Northern planners earlier post on here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don’t think it can really be sold as a replacement, as the 350s can’t keep to timings so it drops stops compared to the Northern service, AIUI from the Northern planners earlier post on here.

I mean the Northern service is to be withdrawn. Whether we consider it good enough to be a replacement is more of an opinion, but I do think Manchester is a more likely destination for the intermediates than Brum, so if the Northern service is removed then I'm opposed.

 

[The Planner]

I would operate 2 tph 8-coach emus between Manchester and Birmingham via Macclesfield, extending towards Birmingham International and beyond.

Yes, but as often pointed out, it doesn't work with how the timetable is currently constructed and its unlikely to change significantly until post HS2 phase 1.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I mean the Northern service is to be withdrawn. Whether we consider it good enough to be a replacement is more of an opinion, but I do think Manchester is a more likely destination for the intermediates than Brum, so if the Northern service is removed then I'm opposed.

Why should the existing Styal Line to Crewe commuters be inconvenienced just so a Midlands rail aspiration can come to fruition? Manchester Airport rail links should be for the benefit of the cross-Pennine ones.

Are there any proposals in the "aspirational box" to cease the Birmingham to Stansted Airport service once the Birmingham to Manchester Airport becomes operational?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why should the existing Styal Line to Crewe commuters be inconvenienced just so a Midlands rail aspiration can come to fruition?

Commuters to Crewe? It's tiny with relatively little high paid work worthy of long distance commuting. You mean Manchester?

Manchester Airport rail links should be for the benefit of the cross-Pennine ones.

Why?

Are there any proposals in the "aspirational box" to cease the Birmingham to Stansted Airport service once the Birmingham to Manchester Airport becomes operational?

Why would there be?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Birmingham did not miss out on the High-Speed line to London and appears to wish to make it known it is the "Second City" in England. Let them be satified with their links to Stansted Airport.

Manchester Airport should be seen as "the main hub airport" serving the current connectional plans of the "Transpennine Connection" project which covers Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds as three large city regions.

 

[Topological]

Birmingham did not miss out on the High-Speed line to London and appears to wish to make it known it is the "Second City" in England. Let them be satified with their links to Stansted Airport.

Manchester Airport should be seen as "the main hub airport" serving the current connectional plans of the "Transpennine Connection" project which covers Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds as three large city regions.

Is this an attempt to start a fight with Birmingham?

Stansted Airport is an extension of a Cambridge service. It is pretty obvious that Birmingham and Cambridge should be connected. Or do we start cutting services to random cities too because Birmingham has a service to Gloucester?

Manchester Airport should be the second airport after Heathrow. The catchment area clearly extends South and West. Trains should reflect that fact.

If Manchester can attract Birmingham passengers then that will support more destinations from Manchester. More destinations can only be beneficial for the city of Manchester.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is this an attempt to start a fight with Birmingham?

Put it like this. If the Birmingham to Manchester Airport is such that everyone gains by it, why did it not occur twenty years ago?

 

[Topological]

Put it like this. If the Birmingham to Manchester Airport is such that everyone gains by it, why did it not occur twenty years ago?

That would apply to stop any ideas from coming to fruition.

Who knows whether this will be a good idea. The Airport will have some sense of their passenger origins and could have data supporting a service. There has also been a growing recognition of changing economic geographies.

We used to think going from Cardiff to Swansea was completely mad. Look at the road network before they bridged the River Neath. Now imagine that there was neither an A48 nor now the M4. Now I drive to Cardiff and park within 45 minutes. Cardiff is my City Centre of choice and Swansea decays.

The concept of distance continues to evolve and that means Manchester Airport is now on a bigger radar than it used to be.

The train service from Birmingham to Manchester Airport is simply part of that picture.

Note that the service is also a lot of other local journeys and is not just about Manchester Airport. It is just that in this case there is a natural terminating point in Crewe that could be used in a way that Birmingham to Stansted Airport does not have a natural terminating point amongst the constraints of Cambridge station.

 

[The Planner]

Birmingham did not miss out on the High-Speed line to London and appears to wish to make it known it is the "Second City" in England. Let them be satified with their links to Stansted Airport.

Manchester Airport should be seen as "the main hub airport" serving the current connectional plans of the "Transpennine Connection" project which covers Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds as three large city regions.

You are also forgetting the direct link it provides from Stoke and the Staffordshire area.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You are also forgetting the direct link it provides from Stoke and the Staffordshire area.

Not so. I personally see Manchester Airport as a very important facility in the Trans-Pennine belt for the benefit of Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds in that northern region.

Stoke and the Staffordshire area are, to my understanding, part of the Midlands region, in which Birmingham is by far the largest conurbation.

 

[LowLevel]

Not so. I personally see Manchester Airport as a very important facility in the Trans-Pennine belt for the benefit of Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds in that northern region.

Stoke and the Staffordshire area are, to my understanding, part of the Midlands region, in which Birmingham is by far the largest conurbation.

Stoke is considerably closer to Manchester Airport than Birmingham Airport to be fair (a good 20 odd miles closer, and the wrong side of the massive conurbation sat in the way). You've oversimplified the way you have compartmentalised "regions".

Different things have been tried with the Manchester Airport services (don't forget Central Trains relatively short lived marathon to/from Skegness with a class 153 that didn't even stop at Wilmslow!), there's no reason not to have a go at a decent quality offering that has more to it than the previous attempts by Central or North Western (a few extensions per day to Brum run by life expired class 309s that whilst comfy looked very much like they were life expired).

 

[Topological]

Not so. I personally see Manchester Airport as a very important facility in the Trans-Pennine belt for the benefit of Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds in that northern region.

Stoke and the Staffordshire area are, to my understanding, part of the Midlands region, in which Birmingham is by far the largest conurbation.

The catchment area for Manchester Airport would surely be based on travel time?

No business would restrict their catchment area to any administrative region, unless there were hard borders with barriers to crossing. Something, like Manchester Airport, to the South of the North West region will naturally reach into neighbouring regions.

It is about time there was a proper train to link into the wider catchment areas.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Apr 2026 ==

Different things have been tried with the Manchester Airport services (don't forget Central Trains relatively short lived marathon to/from Skegness with a class 153 that didn't even stop at Wilmslow!), there's no reason not to have a go at a decent quality offering that has more to it than the previous attempts by Central or North Western (a few extensions per day to Brum run by life expired class 309s that whilst comfy looked very much like they were life expired).

Did the Central Trains offering ever see 170s?

I only really used Central Trains on the Liverpool - Manchester, or around Leicester (to Birmingham, Coventry, Nottingham or the Ivanhoe Line), but remember having the airport on the map.