Potential South London improvement ideas?

[NCT]

Probably. I gather Crossrail 2 looked at a fast line tunnel from Berrylands to Clapham Jn to avoid the costs of rebuilding New Malden, Raynes Park, Wimbledon etc. Several problems with that though.

From what I gather, they insisted on keeping Waterloo trains from the suburban branches, meaning even with a fast line tunnel they still needed to remodel Raynes Park and Wimbledon.

 

[Bald Rick]

From what I gather, they insisted on keeping Waterloo trains from the suburban branches, meaning even with a fast line tunnel they still needed to remodel Raynes Park and Wimbledon.

Not sure about that.

 

[BritishGuy54]

So, looking at the possible split of the Northern line, I suppose the absolute most the Battersea branch could be extended post-Crossrail 2 is something like this:

• Battersea Power Station
• Battersea Bridge
• Clapham Junction (Mildmay, Windrush, Southern, Southwestern)
• Wandsworth South
• Southfields (District)
• Putney Heath
• Roehampton
• Kingston Vale
• Kingston Hill
• Coombe Wood (for Norbiton)
• Kingston (Southwestern)

There is some parallels with the future Crossrail 2 routing, but it does fill a gap, being the interior of the SWR Twickenham loop.

 

[JonathanH]

So, looking at the possible split of the Northern line, I suppose the absolute most the Battersea branch could be extended post-Crossrail 2

I think there is a problem, even after the unlikely building of Crossrail 2, that Northern Line trains only have 6 coaches, so pushing them out too far does lead to issues of overloading.

 

[Recessio]

So, looking at the possible split of the Northern line, I suppose the absolute most the Battersea branch could be extended post-Crossrail 2 is something like this:

• Battersea Power Station
• Battersea Bridge
• Clapham Junction (Mildmay, Windrush, Southern, Southwestern)
• Wandsworth South
• Southfields (District)
• Putney Heath
• Roehampton
• Kingston Vale
• Kingston Hill
• Coombe Wood (for Norbiton)
• Kingston (Southwestern)

There is some parallels with the future Crossrail 2 routing, but it does fill a gap, being the interior of the SWR Twickenham loop.

I'd be astonished if it ever gets extended beyond Clapham Junction tbh. Most of those areas are already served by rail in some shape or form anyway which doesn't tend to be the priority in extensions. (Clapham Junction is an exception that it has the advantage of tying in to one of the busiest stations so opens up lots of new routing for only one extra station)

 

[London Trains]

I don't think this is worthy of a new thread, but mods feel free to move this to a new thread if necessary.

A change I'd make on the BML to improve reliability and provide more connections:

Run the Horsham to Peterborough service on the slow lines between Stoats Nest and Windmill Bridge junctions, putting it in the existing path of the East Grinstead to Victoria service between South Croydon and Windmill Bridge.

To allow this, run the East Grinstead to Victoria service 3 minutes later than now between East Grinstead and South Croydon, add an additional stop at South Croydon, and run 4 minutes later than now between South Croydon and Victoria. At South Croydon this doesn't conflict with anything, as it will serve South Croydon at 16/46, and nothing crosses the Up line from Oxted on the Down Slow through South Croydon between the Bedford to Three Bridges at 09/39 and the Peterborough to Horsham at 19/49, and nothing will run on the Up Slow between the Horsham to Peterborough at 13/43 and the East Grinstead to Bedford peak extras at 20/50 (or the Caterham/Tattenham Corner to London Bridge at 21/51 off peak). At Selhurst, it doesn't conflict with anything either, as it will cross from the slows to the fasts at 22/52, the exact same time that the Victoria to Reigate crosses from the fasts to the slows, therefore creating a parallel move (and in addition, the Victoria to Portsmouth/Bognor could also run 1 minute earlier between Victoria and East Croydon if a longer separation is needed between conflicting moves at the junction). From Selhurst to Victoria, the service would now run in the existing path of the Eastbourne/Ore to Victoria service. In the other direction, the Victoria to East Grinstead service has enough excess pathing time between Clapham Junction and Sanderstead to allow for it to additionally call at South Croydon without any timings needing to change.

To allow the East Grinstead service to take its path between Selhurst and Victoria, run the Eastbourne/Ore to Victoria service 3 minutes earlier between Gatwick and Victoria by removing the 4 minutes of dwell time it has at Gatwick, which puts it into the existing paths of the Horsham to Peterborough service between Stoats Nest and Windmill Bridge, and the East Grinstead to Victoria service between Selhurst and Victoria, both of which are no longer using these paths, as stated above.


To summarise:

> Move the Horsham to Peterborough service from the fasts to the slows between Stoats Nest and Windmill Bridge junctions, improving overall reliability on the BML by removing the only conflicting move between Windmill Bridge Junction and Gatwick Airport.
> To facilitate this, run the East Grinstead to Victoria service a few minutes later throughout, and the Eastbourne/Ore to Victoria services a few minutes earlier between Gatwick and Victoria by removing the long dwell at Gatwick - this improves journey times for people travelling from the East Coastway into London.
> Add a South Croydon stop to the Victoria to East Grinstead services, restoring a direct service between South Croydon and Victoria/Clapham Junction.