Off peak day return VS off peak day travelcard- different time restrictions?

[martin2345uk]

It honestly seems like I’m just permanently baffled by train fares these days.

Chelmsford to Liv Street return tomorrow (Monday).

From 19:02 the tickets get cheaper because it seems that’s when I can get an off peak day return; trains prior to that one offer only the off peak day travelcard. Where can I find the restrictions for these ticket types in terms of the time? They’re both off peak so I don’t quite understand why one is valid from the 19:02 onwards..?

 

[Mainline421]

From 19:02 the tickets get cheaper because it seems that’s when I can get an off peak day return; trains prior to that one offer only the off peak day travelcard. Where can I find the restrictions for these ticket types in terms of the time? They’re both off peak so I don’t quite understand why one is valid from the 19:02 onwards..?

Brfares https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=CHM&dest=LST&grpd=0035&rlc=YNG&tkt=ODT https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=CHM&dest=LST&grpd=1072&rlc=YNG&tkt=DDR or via the official National Rail website as will be printed on the ticket https://nre.co.uk/C4 and https://nre.co.uk/PX

In this case it looks like an error which may now be fixed (reducing the Travelcard validity unfortunately)

 

[JonathanH]

This is due to Project Oval, and the One Day Travelcard acting as a kind of cap to the way in which the restrictions on the off-peak day return works.

The off-peak day return has 'standard' Project Oval restrictions for travel to and from London - eg not before 0930 towards London, and no return between 1600 and 1900.

The off-peak day travelcard does not have the afternoon restriction from London, and can be used slightly earlier towards London.

In this case it looks like an error which may now be fixed (reducing the Travelcard validity unfortunately)

No error. This is how Project Oval pricing works.

 

[Watershed]

It's all to do with Project Oval - which was supposed to simplify things but if anything, has only made it more complex!

The time restrictions for Off-Peak Day Singles and Returns were 'standardised' (i.e. generally tightened) to all the stations that Project Oval expanded PAYG to, including Chelmsford. This is restriction code PX, PY etc. which you see on BR Fares.

For 'simplicity', Super Off-Peak fares were withdrawn. To partially compensate for this, the Off-Peak fares were reduced to somewhere in between the old Super Off-Peak and Off-Peak fares.

Off-Peak Day Travelcards generally didn't have their time restrictions or price changed, which was likely done to avoid charging too much for the price-sensitive 'day out' market. But it leads to the slightly bizarre outcome that the validity of an Off-Peak ticket depends on whether it's a single/return or a Travelcard.

 

[davews]

And the bizarre situation where for some journeys if you are returning during the evening off peak period it is cheaper to get a day travelcard even if you are not using the tube at all (especially with a rail card).

 

[JonathanH]

And the bizarre situation where for some journeys if you are returning during the evening off peak period it is cheaper to get a day travelcard even if you are not using the tube at all (especially with a rail card).

It is just a way of applying, in 'paper' format, the Zone 1 centric off-peak cap applicable on Contactless PAYG for travel from places outside Zone 6.

 

[martin2345uk]

Thanks for explanations all. This new evening peak thing is a real PITA for railway shift workers! Or probably most shift workers

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2026 ==

Also how did you all so easily find the restriction codes from my screenshots?

 

[Haywain]

This new evening peak thing is a real PITA for railway shift workers! Or probably most shift workers

Not just shift workers but leisure travellers too.

 

[Joe Paxton]

It is just a way of applying, in 'paper' format, the Zone 1 centric off-peak cap applicable on Contactless PAYG for travel from places outside Zone 6.

Explained like that, yes it does make some sense. Though the significant difference to post-Oyster PAYG (i.e. 2010 onwards) NR fares within Greater London (i.e. zones 1-6) is that with the latter there are no off-peak return fares, just singles or Anytime returns.

 

[Haywain]

Also how did you all so easily find the restriction codes from my screenshots?

Probably by looking it up on BRFares.com

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2026 ==

Though the significant difference to post-Oyster PAYG (i.e. 2010 onwards) NR fares within Greater London (i.e. zones 1-6) is that with the latter there are no off-peak return fares, just singles or Anytime returns.

These are irrelevant to the changes made as a result of Project Oval, which is what was being discussed.

 

[JonathanH]

Though the significant difference to post-Oyster PAYG (i.e. 2010 onwards) NR fares within Greater London (i.e. zones 1-6) is that with the latter there are no off-peak return fares, just singles or Anytime returns.

The availability of off-peak day return fares for journeys in the Project Oval area is just a matter of convenience for users, and saving on transactions for the railway, given the move otherwise to single leg pricing.

In practice, passengers might expected to buy an off-peak day single in one direction and an anytime day single in the other if they need to return between 4pm and 7pm, rather than simply buy an off-peak day return and note it isn't valid when they want to travel. This is why Contactless PAYG is more convenient for users without railcards). Clearly the Travelcard may be cheaper in the instance of travel to Zone 1 or beyond.

In the Zone 1-6 area, clearly the 'paper' off-peak options weren't retained, but the Zone 1-6 'off-peak cap' provided by the off-peak day travelcard has been retained