ECML major disruption | 91107 fails at Knebworth (25/04)

[harz99]

Decent turn around job on 1A66 into 1D97! Just over 15 minutes to unload the arriving passengers, load the departing passengers, close up and dispatch! Not bad on a long distance service. I've seen LNER (or a predecessor) do one of their sets in about 20 minutes including a very quick litter pick and catering restock which I'm assuming that GC had to skip on this occasion!

GC catering staff and guards do the clear up themselves mostly en route after Doncaster or York, but yes a fast turn around especially given there is also an operating crew swap between units, as the drivers and guards don't operate both routes.

It may have helped that both crews are going home, and probably wanted to escape the chaos of Kings Cross as quickly as possible!

 

[anothertyke]

and now....... overrunning engineering works at Doncaster, queueing trains.......

 

[Cowley]

The time it takes to sort out these kinds of issues is obviously worth a discussion of its own, so that’s here now:

Failures in hot weather. What needs to change?

mods note - split from this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ecml-major-disruption-91107-fails-at-knebworth.301508/unread Every year we hear reports of failed trains with unbearable conditions being left stranded for hours on end, people taking matters into their own hands etc. Its...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[dk1]

and now....... overrunning engineering works at Doncaster, queueing trains.......

To be expected really if travelling on a Sunday morning. Seems to be moving now.

 

[D1537]

Well me thinks that really shows LNER in shoddy light, not 1 defective train but actually 2..

LNER do not maintain the Azumas.

 

[43094]

One minor point above (without taking away from the gist of the rest of it):

The second IC225 went under its own power to Stevenage once the brake issue was resolved (not T'bird hauled). It then went under its own power to Neville Hill.

The T'bird rescued the first set, and hauled that to Neville Hill.

As an aside, the sole dedicated ECML T'bird was north of York when the issue first occurred, shadowing the Midland Pullman HST, which had had power car issues. The T'bird was seen returning through York at 1405 (so, 25 minutes after the incident occurred, the dedicated T'bird was approximately 155 miles away, in case that sheds any light on the timings of some of it).

 

[jopsuk]

I spent the afternoon in St Neots, and just missed the 1618 train to Stevenage, and then realised the 1648 was cancelled (RTT said "Planning Error").

Never mind, I though, I'll get an ice cream at the Tesco on the Love's Farm estate and mooch back to the station. All northbound trains were shown with that helpful epithet "Delayed" and our (1718) train left PBO 5 minutes late but caught some of that up. When we got just outside Hitchin, the train ground to a halt and we made fairly slow progress to Stevenage, arriving to find 3 police cars, a fire engine and 2 ambulances outside (and platforms 3 and 4 with numerous police present). It's a good job I did catch the 1718, as the next train didn't leave St Neots until 18.35.

Apparently the ambulances we for the people who couldn't cope with the lack of a/c.

Police I presume were there because of the people who irregularly disembarked

Fire brigade I have no idea - perhaps there was an issue with the failed unit.

Bought my ticket from Trainpal, who are now refusing any kind of refund as "the conditions have not been met". I'm not exactly devastated

right, so:
Ignoring that you missed the 1618, that's irrelevant as that's on you.
You intended therefore to catch the 1648, which was cancelled. This was timetabled to arrive at Stevenage at 1716.
You did catch the 1718, which arrived at Stevenage at 1758.

You were therefore delayed by 42 minutes. Apply for Delay repay from Thameslink. You're entitled to 50% of the fare as compensation, which for a return ticket will be assessed as 50% of the total fare (I think).

 

[Wallsendmag]

I was at the Newcastle match and wallked from The Emirates to Finsbury Park to find the station hull of trains going nowhere so jumped on a tube back to Kings Cross. Arrived KGX around 2000 and jumped on a fairly quiet 1930 departure which left an hour late and then joined the ques of trains at Sandy due to a trespass incident. Eventually got into Newcastle just after midnight.

 

[Twingo37175]

To add to this it looks like 91109 has sat down at Stevenage blocking the down fast. Not sure if minor or a trip for the thunderbird.

 

[Amos390]

To add to this it looks like 91109 has sat down at Stevenage blocking the down fast. Not sure if minor or a trip for the thunderbird.

0Z99 67027 just passed Peterborough on its way, 91109 seems to have gone in the same section as 107 yesterday, could be something up with that area that the 91s don’t like?

Edit: Cancellation just came in, cancelled due to M7 - Door and Door System Faults

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Apr 2026 ==

New update - 67027 to be sent back as 5D13 has departed for Neville Hill (https://live.rail-record.co.uk/train/?c=70626&d=2026-04-26 )

 

[ChilliSauce]

LNER do not maintain the Azumas.

Agreed not directly, but it is in effect their contractor who does the maintenance.

 

[MontyP]

Looks like all the morning trains from Leeds have made it now, albeit with a good few delays. A relief for the thousands of football fans heading for Wembley. Also looks like the WCR special from Leeds to Wembley Central arrived almost on time. Interesting routing for that one - down the ECML and then round the North London Line. The return working is via WCML to Bletchley then Bedford, MML to Sheffield (Erewash route), Fitzwilliam and into Leeds after midnight!

 

[D1537]

Looks like all the morning trains from Leeds have made it now, albeit with a good few delays. A relief for the thousands of football fans heading for Wembley. Also looks like the WCR special from Leeds to Wembley Central arrived almost on time. Interesting routing for that one - down the ECML and then round the North London Line. The return working is via WCML to Bletchley then Bedford, MML to Sheffield (Erewash route), Fitzwilliam and into Leeds after midnight!

Yes, I'm not sure why it doesn't leave Wembley until nearly 8pm - even if the match went to extra time and penalties, the latest it would finish would be about 6pm. If it finishes in 90 minutes the punters are going to be knocking around for 3 hours before it leaves. Still, I suppose the pubs will be open ...

 

[milooo]

I was on 1P44 1544 London Kings Cross to Peterborough yesterday and we were held at Welwyn Garden City for around 50 mins

 

[Banham7]

It's really not been a good streak for the East Coast recently. 1A83 has encountered a points failure at Tallington Junction with quite a queue behind it.

 

[David Burrows]

Decent turn around job on 1A66 into 1D97! Just over 15 minutes to unload the arriving passengers, load the departing passengers, close up and dispatch! Not bad on a long distance service. I've seen LNER (or a predecessor) do one of their sets in about 20 minutes including a very quick litter pick and catering restock which I'm assuming that GC had to skip on this occasion!

Oh dear, shows how things have slipped over the years if we now think a 15 minute turn-round is good with a muliple unit. Years ago, when Liverpool St - Norwich trains were diesel hauled, when trains were late, even including attaching/detaching locos it was not unusual to turn trains round in 10 mins and on a couple of occasions it was done in 6 minutes.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Oh dear, shows how things have slipped over the years if we now think a 15 minute turn-round is good with a muliple unit. Years ago, when Liverpool St - Norwich trains were diesel hauled, when trains were late, even including attaching/detaching locos it was not unusual to turn trains round in 10 mins and on a couple of occasions it was done in 6 minutes.

I've seen trains at London Victoria have a proceed aspect to depart before it's even stopped on it's arrival. Driver in the other end, doors shut and off it goes

 

[rob.rjt]

I was caught up in this yesterday. Lots of apologies for delays, but nothing about the ticket acceptance that was in place, not even to check National Rail.

 

[yorkie]

Bought my ticket from Trainpal, who are now refusing any kind of refund as "the conditions have not been met". I'm not exactly devastated

If you want good customer service, book with us rather than Trainpal

However, although I've been made aware of countless occasions where they are wrong, on this occasion Trainpal are actually correct if you did travel; you need to claim compensation from the relevant train operator.

The 91s are becoming a huge liability

Any evidence for that? There have been plenty of Azuma failures! Though most ECML farces seem to be infrastructure-based or related to incidents out of the rail industry's control

 

[357]

Oh dear, shows how things have slipped over the years if we now think a 15 minute turn-round is good with a muliple unit. Years ago, when Liverpool St - Norwich trains were diesel hauled, when trains were late, even including attaching/detaching locos it was not unusual to turn trains round in 10 mins and on a couple of occasions it was done in 6 minutes.

Agreed.

Although I'd say it's more down to the amount of luggage people bring with them these days.

As a former DOO metro driver who now drives pointy trains in and out of KGX the slow turnaround times in disruption infuriate me.

 

[The Middle]

Any evidence for that? There have been plenty of Azuma failures! Though most ECML farces seem to be infrastructure-based or related to incidents out of the rail industry's control

Yes, the large number of recent class 91 failures.....

 

[Horizon22]

Oh dear, shows how things have slipped over the years if we now think a 15 minute turn-round is good with a muliple unit. Years ago, when Liverpool St - Norwich trains were diesel hauled, when trains were late, even including attaching/detaching locos it was not unusual to turn trains round in 10 mins and on a couple of occasions it was done in 6 minutes.

Partly because there are less staff to assist these days.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, the large number of recent class 91 failures.....

You are absolutely entitled to an opinion, but I was really asking if you have any actual evidence...

 

[GordonT]

As a former DOO metro driver who now drives pointy trains in and out of KGX the slow turnaround times in disruption infuriate me.

Could it be that in some cases the late arrival is actually ready to depart (say) a commendable 10 minutes later but is then not able to be given the road for (say) a further 10 minutes whilst another series of departures are given priority for reasons of the bigger picture? This would in effect attribute a 20 minute turnaround to a working which in theory could have been a 10 minute turnaround had there not been a further delay to its departure entirely outwith the control of train crew and station staff?

 

[jkkne]

As someone caught up in this, after the misery of watching his side lose to arsenal and trying to get back to Newcastle… My main view is how atrocious lner platform and social media team were. Kings Cross staff were utterly clueless and then somewhat absent , we were informing them through RTT. LNER social media (who perhaps were having a long day) possibly needs another job if they can’t handle the level of queries, they were so passive aggressive and on arrival at Newcastle the staff at were their usual well documented arrogant self. I cannot think of another station on the network where the staff are so bad.

The train crew were outstanding it has to be said, good humoured, gauged the exact relationship and tone and an email has gone to David Horne to express their usual brilliance. LNER train crew are hugely hugely let down by their platform staff at Newcastle and social media (KX were very friendly just clueless)

Funnily enough a British airways holiday booking was just £10 more than I ended up spending and at least they’d have looked after me and given me compensation and covered my food and drink.

I use the line at least once a week and I’m getting seriously fed up with the east coast and the option to HEX it to Paddington is much more palatable than yet another delay or disruption. I’m considering buying myself a bench at York, the amount of times I’ve been kicked off there at lste!

 

[ModernRailways]

As a former DOO metro driver who now drives pointy trains in and out of KGX the slow turnaround times in disruption infuriate me.

Totally agree with this, there does seem to be a much bigger lack of urgency, which tends to lead delays cascading on trains that do run rather than an attempt to claw back some time.

My TOC has a much better emphasis on getting back to right time, safety comes first, but the majority of us will make an effort to getting things back to time or a bit less of a delay.

Longer trains, and more leisure travellers with big bags but it should theoretically be possible to turn around an LNER service in 5-10 minutes, crew handover/change ends and have passengers ready and waiting on the platform.

It may not get a clean, but people would much rather get going than be held up whilst it gets cleaned, likewise with catering, though some people would then react with a ‘operating for the railways benefit not the passengers’.

Even then, keeping two or three doors for staff only would at least mean catering trolleys could be swapped out.

 

[azOOOOOma]

As someone caught up in this, after the misery of watching his side lose to arsenal and trying to get back to Newcastle… My main view is how atrocious lner platform and social media team were. Kings Cross staff were utterly clueless and then somewhat absent , we were informing them through RTT. LNER social media (who perhaps were having a long day) possibly needs another job if they can’t handle the level of queries, they were so passive aggressive and on arrival at Newcastle the staff at were their usual well documented arrogant self. I cannot think of another station on the network where the staff are so bad.

The train crew were outstanding it has to be said, good humoured, gauged the exact relationship and tone and an email has gone to David Horne to express their usual brilliance. LNER train crew are hugely hugely let down by their platform staff at Newcastle and social media (KX were very friendly just clueless)

Funnily enough a British airways holiday booking was just £10 more than I ended up spending and at least they’d have looked after me and given me compensation and covered my food and drink.

I use the line at least once a week and I’m getting seriously fed up with the east coast and the option to HEX it to Paddington is much more palatable than yet another delay or disruption. I’m considering buying myself a bench at York, the amount of times I’ve been kicked off there at lste!

They are awful. I report every time I see them abusing customers. I recommend everyone else do the same when they see it happening. Even if it’s just a Tweet. Awful people who I’m embarrassed to call colleagues. It’s a shame as some are absolutely lovely but a handful let them down.

 

[harz99]

Getting off topic I know, but as regards station staff and disruption, personally I think there is merit in bringing all station staff on manned stations, plus those stations, back under direct control of GBR.

That would get rid of the attitude of your not our customer, that I and others have experienced at the likes of Carlisle/ Preston/York and Newcastle, where many staff only seem to want to look after the services and users of the trains run by their employing TOC.

 

[357]

Totally agree with this, there does seem to be a much bigger lack of urgency, which tends to lead delays cascading on trains that do run rather than an attempt to claw back some time.

My TOC has a much better emphasis on getting back to right time, safety comes first, but the majority of us will make an effort to getting things back to time or a bit less of a delay.

Longer trains, and more leisure travellers with big bags but it should theoretically be possible to turn around an LNER service in 5-10 minutes, crew handover/change ends and have passengers ready and waiting on the platform.

It may not get a clean, but people would much rather get going than be held up whilst it gets cleaned, likewise with catering, though some people would then react with a ‘operating for the railways benefit not the passengers’.

Even then, keeping two or three doors for staff only would at least mean catering trolleys could be swapped out.

The other issue is that KGX won't advertise a platform until they get a phone call from the Train Manager to say it's ready for boarding... On a train arriving into London the TM has other things to be doing

 

[800001]

The other issue is that KGX won't advertise a platform until they get a phone call from the Train Manager to say it's ready for boarding... On a train arriving into London the TM has other things to be doing

It's always been the LNER team leader responsible for notifying the station control team that the service is ready for boarding as far as I'm aware.
Normally once they load the reservations into system and ensure majority of catering carts are loaded.