More losses at Grand Central

[KingBBoogaloo]

GC lost £8.4million and had to return £2million to TOCs it had been in dispute with. (ORCATS money at a guess)

See: http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/9211164.Rail_operator___s_losses_mirror_previous_year/

 

[tbtc]

which is yet to return a profit

I wonder when they expect to make one? Is the Sunderland route paying for itself yet (and the losses relate to the set up costs of the Bradford service, which nobody would expect to make profits in the first year or two)?

Does this relate to the year when the Bradford services started? The increases (turnover up from £11.5m to £18.9m, leasing costs from £3.9m to £5.2m, wages from £2.5m to £3.9m) suggest a fairly turbulent time.

 

[Crossover]

I read somewhere that the Sunderland route is profitable and is subsidising the Bradford route, but have no figures to hand to back it up

 

[tbtc]

I read somewhere that the Sunderland route is profitable and is subsidising the Bradford route, but have no figures to hand to back it up

This is what I *thought* I'd heard, but I can't remember whether it was in an official document or supposition. Its been going for long enough that you'd expect it to be making a few quid back (which, as you say, is subsidising the Bradford service).

 

[142094]

That is what I remember too, and also that the business plan said for the first few years they would be expected to make a loss anyway. The groups providing the funding must be happy with the progress otherwise it would have been bye-bye to GC a while ago.

 

[Lampshade]

I've heard the Sunderland route is now profitable; although is there any chance of the Bradford route EVER being profitable?

 

[Yorkswatcher]

Doubtful the timetable and fares are no where near as good as East coast so many people just hop on a service to Leeds and change.

 

[Darandio]

Doubtful the timetable and fares are no where near as good as East coast

Yes, on advance fares maybe. But people do need to do things last minute and this is where it is much, much cheaper to go with GC.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Does this relate to the year when the Bradford services started? The increases (turnover up from £11.5m to £18.9m, leasing costs from £3.9m to £5.2m, wages from £2.5m to £3.9m) suggest a fairly turbulent time.

I wouldn't say turbulent is the word. That increase in turnover with a moderate increase in cost of sales is indicative of strong growth, and this is nothing a young and growing company should be vilified for. The Bradford route started last year in May, and having leased five more trains I wouldn't be unhappy with the loss being equal year on year. I've worked in small growing companies and losses tend to widen before they turn to profit.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Maybe starting to sell advance tickets will help, especially the Bradford route, as this will 100% GC revenue, lets hope so anyway as it seems a good operation that employes a lot of staff. They need to offer some £10-15 advances on the bradford route.

 

[KingBBoogaloo]

I read somewhere that the Sunderland route is profitable and is subsidising the Bradford route, but have no figures to hand to back it up

You probably read it here: http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/835...tral__confident_of_making_profit_within_year/

That artical was about last years losses.

 

[swt_passenger]

...lets hope so anyway as it seems a good operation that employes a lot of staff.

Just like WSMR then...

 

[tbtc]

I wouldn't say turbulent is the word. That increase in turnover with a moderate increase in cost of sales is indicative of strong growth, and this is nothing a young and growing company should be vilified for

I'm not vilifying them, I'm just trying to put the huge increases in costs (50% more spent on staff) at a time when they are making losses. Even Bob Crow doesn't insist on those kind of rises in wages...

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

As has been said above, the Sunderland service is already profit-making, and so there's little to worry about here. Bradford are starting to gain more passengers, and with some of the offers, hopefully people will realise its a good service (or alternative!)

 

[BOSCH]

Nice to see the usual anti GC vultures out in force once again......GC The Joey Barton of the East Coast !!!!!!

 

[Pen Mill]

8.4 million loss after paying an extra 1.3 wages and 1.4 leasing and......
still leaves a loss of 5.7 million .
This just looks out of reach to me.

 

[WillPS]

I just don't know how they'll make the Bradford runs profitable. The only times I see them at all well loaded is when they're running one of those deals which they surely can't make any money on.

However, I suggest they'll probably cling to the paths as long as they can, as I'd have thought Alliance would probably snap them up for their GNER services.

 

[btcc fan]

I am on the 'full and standing' 19:48 KGX to WKK service and I will be travelling again on Grand Central.

Now they have advance fares, hopefully things for them will improve on the West Riding route, if they attract people in from East Coast intially by offering the promotional fare and then hopefully keeping them with the advance fares.

 

[40086]

Nice to see the usual anti GC vultures out in force once again......GC The Joey Barton of the East Coast !!!!!!

Wot they're going to run to QPR?

 

[tbtc]

I am on the 'full and standing' 19:48 KGX to WKK service and I will be travelling again on Grand Central

Glad to hear its busy, but I'd imagine a train from London to anywhere "up north" would be busy on the Friday evening of a Bank Holiday weekend.

Plenty other routes are that busy at plenty other times too yet don't have five coach trains...

 

[WatcherZero]

I'm not vilifying them, I'm just trying to put the huge increases in costs (50% more spent on staff) at a time when they are making losses. Even Bob Crow doesn't insist on those kind of rises in wages...

Actually he did, DLR staff when trains were extended by 50% he said there should be a matching increase in wages.....

 

[tbtc]

Actually he did, DLR staff when trains were extended by 50% he said there should be a matching increase in wages.....

Ah, so Northern's habit of short-forming services is in the hope that they can pay staff less money for shorter trains?

 

[paul1609]

8.4 million loss after paying an extra 1.3 wages and 1.4 leasing and......
still leaves a loss of 5.7 million .
This just looks out of reach to me.

Yeah me too, its only a matter of time.