Bad traffic enforcement

[JohnofWessex]

What is worrying is the number of fatalities in RTC's where no other road user is involved - aka a tree overdose

 

[Shrop]

The only useful breakdown I’ve found so far is by age - which straightaway shows that over a third of those deaths are unlikely to be prevented by re-testing as the 17-24 age group have got to a re-test. I suspect anyway that the causes of most fatalities and accidents (which is what I was looking for) are unlikely to show up in a re-test, where all but the most arrogant and /or incompetent are going to be concentrating and modifying their usual bad habits.

This is really about Covid rather than re-testing. But in any case as I've said above, the whole thing needs development. What it doesn't need is dismissing.

 

[The exile]

This is really about Covid rather than re-testing. But in any case as I've said above, the whole thing needs development. What it doesn't need is dismissing.

What has the fact that 17-24 year olds are statistically massively overrepresented (unsurprisingly for several reasons) got to do with COVID- it’s not a new phenomenon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Apr 2026 ==

What is worrying is the number of fatalities in RTC's where no other road user is involved - aka a tree overdose

In many of those cases it’s only “luck” that the tree /wall wasn’t an oncoming vehicle.

 

[edwin_m]

While trying to find a breakdown of those 1600 road deaths, I was amazed to see what a small effect COVID seemed to have. Yes, the numbers dipped, but not by anywhere near the amount I expected. (They were only 10% lower than 2024, for example).

According to https://roadtraffic.dft.gov.uk/, total vehicle-miles were 266 million in 2020 and 298 million in 2021 versus 339 million in 2019 and 324 million in 2022, so a drop of about 15% in total over two years. Collisions between vehicles ought to vary with the square of vehicle miles, because you need two vehicles to collide, so a 10% drop in vehicle miles would give about a 20% drop in collisions. However other types of collision might even increase, because with less traffic on the roads it might be going faster.

 

[markymark2000]

In a technologically advanced country with a supposed interest in road safety, why do we have to put up with such woefully inadequate traffic enforcement systems

I've always wondered why we can't use on bus CCTV cameras to better enforce issues such as poor parking and blocking bus stops, and driving in bus lanes. New York does it, why can't the UK? Even if the footage then goes to someone in a bus operator to sense check the footage, and then pay the bus operator £5 for each successful fine paid. Maybe have it so that this funding has to be ringfenced to support a loss making bus service or offset costs of extended journey times as a result of poor parking or something like that (how that can be enforced or evaluated, I'm not 100% sure but you get the general idea). Buses spend hours roaming the streets of our towns and cities and could capture so much data for traffic enforcement. But no one seems to have the sense to use these roving CCTV machines.



Police enforcement of poor driving seems to be largely non existent, and councils seem to go really hard in some areas, but point blank refuse to enforce other areas. I know of a number of streets in my city where the council refuse to enforce any parking regulations whatsoever. Double parking, parking fully on the pavement so people can't get past. Driving through a restricted/pedestrian area within the posted times. Having 12-15 taxis on a bay that is marked up for 5 taxis because the local cabbies want to block buses from using the bus lane. The lot. Point blank refuse to enforce. But if a coach dare to park in a bus stop for 16 minutes rather than the allotted 15 minutes, bang there is a fine. Or a car goes a few minutes over the time on the ticket, bang there is a fine. Council officers race after the silly fines but refuse to ever go after the more disruptive contraventions. Essentially the more issues that you cause these days, the less you get punished.


Combine very poor enforcement of the disruptive and dangerous driving, parking and general road rules, with a growing attitude of entitlement amongst many drivers. It's a shame to see the deterioration of drivers attitudes and growing lack of care from governments, local authorities and the police to clamp down on poor behaviour. Then again, with the state of this country, this sort of thing isn't just limited to driving, but applies to almost every single part of life these days.

 

[BayPaul]

I've always wondered why we can't use on bus CCTV cameras to better enforce issues such as poor parking and blocking bus stops, and driving in bus lanes. New York does it, why can't the UK? Even if the footage then goes to someone in a bus operator to sense check the footage, and then pay the bus operator £5 for each successful fine paid. Maybe have it so that this funding has to be ringfenced to support a loss making bus service or offset costs of extended journey times as a result of poor parking or something like that (how that can be enforced or evaluated, I'm not 100% sure but you get the general idea). Buses spend hours roaming the streets of our towns and cities and could capture so much data for traffic enforcement. But no one seems to have the sense to use these roving CCTV machines.



Police enforcement of poor driving seems to be largely non existent, and councils seem to go really hard in some areas, but point blank refuse to enforce other areas. I know of a number of streets in my city where the council refuse to enforce any parking regulations whatsoever. Double parking, parking fully on the pavement so people can't get past. Driving through a restricted/pedestrian area within the posted times. Having 12-15 taxis on a bay that is marked up for 5 taxis because the local cabbies want to block buses from using the bus lane. The lot. Point blank refuse to enforce. But if a coach dare to park in a bus stop for 16 minutes rather than the allotted 15 minutes, bang there is a fine. Or a car goes a few minutes over the time on the ticket, bang there is a fine. Council officers race after the silly fines but refuse to ever go after the more disruptive contraventions. Essentially the more issues that you cause these days, the less you get punished.


Combine very poor enforcement of the disruptive and dangerous driving, parking and general road rules, with a growing attitude of entitlement amongst many drivers. It's a shame to see the deterioration of drivers attitudes and growing lack of care from governments, local authorities and the police to clamp down on poor behaviour. Then again, with the state of this country, this sort of thing isn't just limited to driving, but applies to almost every single part of life these days.

That would seem very sensible. The bus driver could hit a button to upload the footage if s/he encounters something dodgy! You might not even need an incentive to the bus operator - they would benefit from clearer bus lanes and stops.

 

[Sonic1234]

Council officers race after the silly fines but refuse to ever go after the more disruptive contraventions. Essentially the more issues that you cause these days, the less you get punished.

Same as on the railway - let your railcard expire by a day and you're in line for paying for your entire Trainline (other retailers are available) history at anytime rates + admin fee or getting a criminal record. Push through the barriers at the station while shouting expletives at staff and making gang signs - nothing happens.

The people making the minor contraventions are unlikely to fight back and have everything registered properly (whether it's their V5 on the road or the address on their online rail tickets account). Good luck finding those who are causing big issues.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I've always wondered why we can't use on bus CCTV cameras to better enforce issues such as poor parking and blocking bus stops, and driving in bus lanes. New York does it, why can't the UK? Even if the footage then goes to someone in a bus operator to sense check the footage, and then pay the bus operator £5 for each successful fine paid. Maybe have it so that this funding has to be ringfenced to support a loss making bus service or offset costs of extended journey times as a result of poor parking or something like that (how that can be enforced or evaluated, I'm not 100% sure but you get the general idea). Buses spend hours roaming the streets of our towns and cities and could capture so much data for traffic enforcement. But no one seems to have the sense to use these roving CCTV machines.

Definitely a good idea.
They could probably implement on trams too, I've had a couple cars stopped on the no stopping yellow markings delaying my tram before.

 

[Shrop]

I've always wondered why we can't use on bus CCTV cameras to better enforce issues such as poor parking and blocking bus stops, and driving in bus lanes. New York does it, why can't the UK? Even if the footage then goes to someone in a bus operator to sense check the footage, and then pay the bus operator £5 for each successful fine paid. Maybe have it so that this funding has to be ringfenced to support a loss making bus service or offset costs of extended journey times as a result of poor parking or something like that (how that can be enforced or evaluated, I'm not 100% sure but you get the general idea). Buses spend hours roaming the streets of our towns and cities and could capture so much data for traffic enforcement. But no one seems to have the sense to use these roving CCTV machines.



Police enforcement of poor driving seems to be largely non existent, and councils seem to go really hard in some areas, but point blank refuse to enforce other areas. I know of a number of streets in my city where the council refuse to enforce any parking regulations whatsoever. Double parking, parking fully on the pavement so people can't get past. Driving through a restricted/pedestrian area within the posted times. Having 12-15 taxis on a bay that is marked up for 5 taxis because the local cabbies want to block buses from using the bus lane. The lot. Point blank refuse to enforce. But if a coach dare to park in a bus stop for 16 minutes rather than the allotted 15 minutes, bang there is a fine. Or a car goes a few minutes over the time on the ticket, bang there is a fine. Council officers race after the silly fines but refuse to ever go after the more disruptive contraventions. Essentially the more issues that you cause these days, the less you get punished.


Combine very poor enforcement of the disruptive and dangerous driving, parking and general road rules, with a growing attitude of entitlement amongst many drivers. It's a shame to see the deterioration of drivers attitudes and growing lack of care from governments, local authorities and the police to clamp down on poor behaviour. Then again, with the state of this country, this sort of thing isn't just limited to driving, but applies to almost every single part of life these days.

You're spot on with your comments, a great deal of the problem is the inconsistency of enforcement, and iften the fear of even discussing it.

There has been disinterest in traffic from successive Governments for several decades. The occasional appearances by politicians claiming to be taking it seriously, is often insulting to many who work in the transport sector.

The excellent TV series "Yes Minister" summed a lot of this up right back in 1982, in their episode "Bed of Nails", which was about Ministers seeing transport as something to keep away from.

While the programme was funny, it's nevertheless sad that it so accurately summed up the disinterest of Ministers, when the truth is so many deaths and injuries on our roads. Especially when that disinterest has never changed since, even though so much technology now exists to take positive action to combat bad driving.

It's almost as though politicians are scared in case their own bad driving is exposed. Or maybe they really do just want to take money (fines, road tax etc) off those who are prepared to pay these things, while running scared of the more serious lawbreakers, as tackling them is too difficult.

 

[PeterC]

Police enforcement of poor driving seems to be largely non existent, and councils seem to go really hard in some areas, but point blank refuse to enforce other areas. I know of a number of streets in my city where the council refuse to enforce any parking regulations whatsoever. Double parking, parking fully on the pavement so people can't get past. Driving through a restricted/pedestrian area within the posted times. Having 12-15 taxis on a bay that is marked up for 5 taxis because the local cabbies want to block buses from using the bus lane. The lot. Point blank refuse to enforce. But if a coach dare to park in a bus stop for 16 minutes rather than the allotted 15 minutes, bang there is a fine. Or a car goes a few minutes over the time on the ticket, bang there is a fine. Council officers race after the silly fines but refuse to ever go after the more disruptive contraventions. Essentially the more issues that you cause these days, the less you get punished.

Councils only have authority to issue fines for a subset of motoring offences. At first glance the examples quoted are a mix of civil and police enforcement.

Pavement parking outside London and Scotland is a police matter although I believe that is about to change. Part of the problem is that the police are only interested in moving traffic offences.

 

[Shrop]

Councils only have authority to issue fines for a subset of motoring offences. At first glance the examples quoted are a mix of civil and police enforcement.

Pavement parking outside London and Scotland is a police matter although I believe that is about to change. Part of the problem is that the police are only interested in moving traffic offences.

This "moving traffic offence" issue is an example of just part of the problem of wholesale lack of focus on enforcement. Police deal with those, while parking offences are usually dealt with by local authority wardens, but one situation is this ...

In one area I used to work a vehicle was seen on several occasions, parked facing the wrong way in a one way street. Wardens wouldn't issue a penalty ticket because the parking itself was not illegal, as it was related to driving rather than parking, so long as the restrictions permitted, which they did after 6pm and before 8am.

So the offence was a "moving traffic offence", which you might think was easy to enforce, since the vehicle had clearly driven against the law to get there, being a one way street.

However, the police refused to issue a penalty because they hadn't actually witnessed the driving the wrong way. We said it clearly must have taken place for this parking to happen, but they said the vehicle might have been offloaded by another vehicle.

This happened regularly, so that vehicle must have been offloaded more than you might expect, but the police wouldn't enforce unless they witnessed the driving in the wrong direction. Which of course they never did.

The vehicle owner(s) knew all this and basically waved two fingers at our archaic laws every time. We asked (in high places) for the laws to be reviewed, but it was not deemed to be of sufficient importance.

So here we are in "Loophole Britain". Those who know how to flout the law tend to get away with it, all paid for by those who are prepared to pay. Like those who do 34mph in 30mph limits even overnight when there's no danger to anyone.

Yet those who do 30mph in the same location when there are parked vehicles, schoolchildren and shoppers crossing in large numbers when 30mph is dangerously fast, do so with impunity. Even if they're boy racers revving to show off at the same time, they'll get away with it because the law doesn't exist to stop them, and the lawmakers don't want to know.

 

[Sonic1234]

It's almost as though politicians are scared in case their own bad driving is exposed. Or maybe they really do just want to take money (fines, road tax etc) off those who are prepared to pay these things, while running scared of the more serious lawbreakers, as tackling them is too difficult.

All of the above

No one really wants a retesting or stricter enforcement regime because they might be the one to fail and lose their licence. Whenever there is a tragedy there are calls for "something must be done" and maybe a speed limit gets lowered or some yellow paint is applied, but there isn't the desire at a society level for more than tokenism.

Central and local government make a fortune from drivers - taxes, parking charges, fines, VAT on repairs and servicing etc. The Government wants you to drive. "Modal shift" is a buzzword to get through an unpopular speed limit change or parking scheme, but the Treasury has nightmares about you actually getting on your bike.

There now is a serious problem of a contingent who are too difficult to handle, which used to be very small in years gone by. See shoplifting, fare evasion, anti social behaviour..... It appears that you are rewarded for being aggressive and/or sneaky.

 

[Shrop]

All of the above

No one really wants a retesting or stricter enforcement regime because they might be the one to fail and lose their licence. Whenever there is a tragedy there are calls for "something must be done" and maybe a speed limit gets lowered or some yellow paint is applied, but there isn't the desire at a society level for more than tokenism.

Central and local government make a fortune from drivers - taxes, parking charges, fines, VAT on repairs and servicing etc. The Government wants you to drive. "Modal shift" is a buzzword to get through an unpopular speed limit change or parking scheme, but the Treasury has nightmares about you actually getting on your bike.

There now is a serious problem of a contingent who are too difficult to handle, which used to be very small in years gone by. See shoplifting, fare evasion, anti social behaviour..... It appears that you are rewarded for being aggressive and/or sneaky.

Just ask the ex-manager of Morrisons in Aldridge who was sacked for daring to restrain a repeat shoplifter.

It seems that their policy is "deter, not detain". So that's it then, the worst you can expect when shoplifting in that store (and many others, as encouraged by our out of touch authorities) is to be told off.

So will that be a deterrent to the type of person who loves to bait authority and post it on social media?

This all gives the impression that our lawmakers actually want to encourage "Wild West" behaviour with everyone out for themselves. Unless of course you're genuinely law-abiding because that makes you an easy target for raising revenue

 

[Lewisham2221]

Other than as a money-making exercise for the DVSA, there would be absolutely no point. People know how to drive properly, after all they all passed their test.

Hard disagree. People pick up all sorts of bad habits, and forget some absolutely basic things, once they've passed their test and start driving unsupervised. Even under 'test' conditions, I reckon you'd pick up loads of licenced/experienced drivers for things like:

• Lane discipline (especially on roundabouts - people are brilliant at forgetting that road markings/signage take precident over 'rules' like left lane for left or straight ahead. Also dual carriageway lane discipline, keeping left except when overtaking etc.)
• Signalling (again, roundabouts being a key issue here, but also when changing lanes on dual carriageways)
• Safe distances (distance behind vehicle in front, when overtaking cyclists, passing parked vehicles, horses!)
• Traffic lights and pedestrian crossings (stopping at an amber light, if safe to do so; not moving until light goes green, not red + amber; waiting until the pedestrian has completely cleared the crossing, not just your side of it)
• Correctly joining and exiting dual carriageways.

These are all things that people tend to be hyper aware of when taking their driving test - but once passed bad habits/complacency/arrogance all slowly seep in until people don't even consciously realise/understand/accept that what they're doing is wrong.

 

[Shrop]

Hard disagree. People pick up all sorts of bad habits, and forget some absolutely basic things, once they've passed their test and start driving unsupervised. Even under 'test' conditions, I reckon you'd pick up loads of licenced/experienced drivers for things like:

• Lane discipline (especially on roundabouts - people are brilliant at forgetting that road markings/signage take precident over 'rules' like left lane for left or straight ahead. Also dual carriageway lane discipline, keeping left except when overtaking etc.)
• Signalling (again, roundabouts being a key issue here, but also when changing lanes on dual carriageways)
• Safe distances (distance behind vehicle in front, when overtaking cyclists, passing parked vehicles, horses!)
• Traffic lights and pedestrian crossings (stopping at an amber light, if safe to do so; not moving until light goes green, not red + amber; waiting until the pedestrian has completely cleared the crossing, not just your side of it)
• Correctly joining and exiting dual carriageways.

These are all things that people tend to be hyper aware of when taking their driving test - but once passed bad habits/complacency/arrogance all slowly seep in until people don't even consciously realise/understand/accept that what they're doing is wrong.

So next time you go on a flight, think of this as you're preparing for take-off. You see your pilot looking very carefree as they go into the cockpit, and then they announce that they've forgotten many of their test standards and are just going to try their best, hoping that it all works. And they don't sound like they're joking either.

Would you be happy with that?

 

[Lewisham2221]

So next time you go on a flight, think of this as you're preparing for take-off. You see your pilot looking very carefree as they go into the cockpit, and then they announce that they've forgotten many of their test standards and are just going to try their best, hoping that it all works. And they don't sound like they're joking either.

Would you be happy with that?

I think you've misunderstood my post. I was disagreeing with @Tetchytyke. I was pointing out that simply having passed a driving test at some point in the past, is in no way an effective indication of somebody's current competency

 

[markymark2000]

That would seem very sensible. The bus driver could hit a button to upload the footage if s/he encounters something dodgy! You might not even need an incentive to the bus operator - they would benefit from clearer bus lanes and stops.

Even if you don't do it as an incentive, I was thinking more that a bus operator or other intermediary for that matter, should probably be sense checking the reports before they make their way to a local authorities for enforcement. Not only to ensure that the report goes to the right police or local authority (there are many bus routes that cross boundaries) but also to save on false or lower quality reports (such as poor camera quality or very unlikely for enforcement). The bus operator or intermediary likely wouldn't work for free to undertake this additional role, and I don't think that the day to day savings on journey times/reliability would be enough to pay for someone to be dedicated to submitting such reports. Hence I think that some incentive or token reimbursement for successful fines would be worth doing.

Definitely a good idea.
They could probably implement on trams too, I've had a couple cars stopped on the no stopping yellow markings delaying my tram before.

Yep, trams too. I suppose that their potential use is much more limited to a few areas but I certainly agree with you.

 

[Shrop]

I think you've misunderstood my post. I was disagreeing with @Tetchytyke. I was pointing out that simply having passed a driving test at some point in the past, is in no way an effective indication of somebody's current competency

Ah okay, I read your first couple of words and thought you meant to say "Hard to disagree"!

But yes, I agree with your observations. I was mainly also disagreeing with @Tetchtyke

 

[Sonic1234]

It seems that their policy is "deter, not detain". So that's it then, the worst you can expect when shoplifting in that store (and many others, as encouraged by our out of touch authorities) is to be told off.

The system relies on most people believing enforcement is stricter than it is - that security guards will intervene, or on the road laws will be enforced. Go to a small town or village, the 30 min/1 hour/2 hour parking bays are basically an honour system as enforcement is rare to non existent, but compliance is high because a lot believe councils are "hot" on parking.

Also, the majority of people were brought up to respect authority figures and believe in the rules, and very few people can make the behavioural change to become an aggressive thug who can get away with things by physical presence and not caring. The meek middle class commuter who has a Farringdon to London Bridge ticket most likely can't be the sort of person who intimidates a bunch of RPIs from trying and would wallop one if needed to get away, even if in a fantasy world they would like to be. What has happened though is the segment of the population who can be aggressive has gone from an insignificant minority to a small but noticeable minority.

 

[Shrop]

What has happened though is the segment of the population who can be aggressive has gone from an insignificant minority to a small but noticeable minority.

I guess you must live in a nice area. Sadly the minority you refer to is growing, and some people are affected more than others.

When it comes to driving, you'll find that the numbers who are prepared to break the law are already in the majority. You only need to drive on a motorway at 70mph when the traffic is fairly free flowing to prove this. You'll find that more cars overtake you, than you overtake.

Quite where this lawbreaking all leads to I'm not sure, but I'm not convinced that our lawmakers burying their heads in the sand and pretending that all the problems are too small to be worth addressing, is the right approach.

 

[33117]

Round here in macclesfield (cheshire east) we have a number of GATSO cameras which catch drivers running red lights. Loads of people caught in the past year.

What really annoys me is the yummy mummys cruising about in their massive SUVs. They're texting as well as you can spot them glancing down at something in their lap.

Being in control of an enormous SUV that must weigh in at about 2 tons & not concentrating is damn scary.



Also what really really hacks people off round here is the yobbo boy racers treating the roads like 1 big racetrack!!!! They honestly couldn't give a stuff about anybody but themselves. Anyone who would dare confront them usually gets a mouthful. Sorry but people like that should be banned from driving for life.

If you aren't prepared to drive safely, with a bit of common sense & courtesy to everyone else then get off the road. Its idiots like this putting insurance premiums up year on year.

 

[The exile]

Hard disagree. People pick up all sorts of bad habits, and forget some absolutely basic things, once they've passed their test and start driving unsupervised. Even under 'test' conditions, I reckon you'd pick up loads of licenced/experienced drivers for things like:

• Lane discipline (especially on roundabouts - people are brilliant at forgetting that road markings/signage take precident over 'rules' like left lane for left or straight ahead. Also dual carriageway lane discipline,

Though this is also an example of how road markings have failed to keep up with modern traffic conditions. By the time you reach the road markings, it’s too late (especially if a high sided vehicle prevented you from even seeing that there was a sign earlier).

 

[AlterEgo]

Though this is also an example of how road markings have failed to keep up with modern traffic conditions. By the time you reach the road markings, it’s too late (especially if a high sided vehicle prevented you from even seeing that there was a sign earlier).

This is precisely the sort of design defect which doesn't get sorted even if people report it. If this was the railway you'd have it sorted immediately. It is very easy to end up in the wrong lane because vehicles in front conceal the bloody arrows. Yet someone changing lane at the last minute is no doubt a "bad driver".

 

[JohnofWessex]

This is precisely the sort of design defect which doesn't get sorted even if people report it. If this was the railway you'd have it sorted immediately. It is very easy to end up in the wrong lane because vehicles in front conceal the bloody arrows. Yet someone changing lane at the last minute is no doubt a "bad driver".

It would IMHO be quite simple to have a sign with the lane markings on it especially where the lanes are not standard

 

[PeterC]

It would IMHO be quite simple to have a sign with the lane markings on it especially where the lanes are not standard

Far too simple

 

[sprunt]

It would IMHO be quite simple to have a sign with the lane markings on it especially where the lanes are not standard

You could, but it would probably be obscured by untrimmed tree branches anyway.

 

[Shrop]

Some on this forum might have driven past signs which say the lower speed limit is to reduce pollution. Wrexham by-pass is one example.

However the road is clearly a 70mph road, and its galling to have to do 50mph when there's hardly any traffic around.

It makes me think of the many large car parks and even public roads where boy racers gather to burn far, far more fuel in order to make massive tyre marks, horrendous noise, and to actually put lives in danger.

But because they're often aggressive, often neither Govt nor police are willing to tackle them, preferring instead to force money out of those who do just a few mph over the speed limit even though they cause far less pollution than boy racers.

Is this anything other than affording favouritism to bullies and aggression?

 

[35B]

You could, but it would probably be obscured by untrimmed tree branches anyway.

You can, but they aren't always very visible - especially when in traffic in unfamiliar surroundings.

There's a junction here with two lanes of traffic at one set of lights, splitting into three lanes in three directions very shortly afterwards, also at a set of lights. The signage and road markings are clear that the left hand lane is to split between left & straight on at the second set of lights, while the right hand lane becomes the right filter at that second set. There are also two car park entrances and a KwikFit to complicate things

The road markings are visible when not covered by cars, but the sign is easily missed when approaching because of the busy road layout with assorted distractions - see Streetview for an idea of what this is like. The result is that it is common to find cars coming into the centre lane from the right despite the signage being authoritative.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But because they're often aggressive, often neither Govt nor police are willing to tackle them, preferring instead to force money out of those who do just a few mph over the speed limit even though they cause far less pollution than boy racers.

A few people doing doughnuts for half an hour one evening will categorically not pollute more (edited!) (in carbon/particulate matter terms) than a large proportion of people going a bit over the limit on a given road all day, or doing 70 instead of 50. Also it will be about localised pollution causing harm to local residents.

 

[AlterEgo]

Some on this forum might have driven past signs which say the lower speed limit is to reduce pollution. Wrexham by-pass is one example.

However the road is clearly a 70mph road, and its galling to have to do 50mph when there's hardly any traffic around.

One thing which is really noticeable if your car keeps a live MPG performance count is how much speeding up eats away at your efficiency. I managed 48mpg in a 3 litre turbodiesel Range Rover Velar Autobiography from the Midlands to Welshpool last week averaging 46mph on A roads for the entire duration (astonishing performance for that car). On the return I took a slightly different route, with the same average speed, but on winding roads with variable speed limits. Result: 36mpg. It's all the slowing for corners and speeding up again. So I'm sceptical that reducing speeds for a few miles is worthwhile.