Deliberately Misleading Car Park Signs designed to catch you out?

[John Luxton]

On Sunday April 19th I parked at the St Anthony Gardens Car Park on Penzance Promenade opposite the swimming pool. It is operated by Parking Eye.

I have used this car park years ago and it was a pay and display but not used it in the past 8 to 10 years.

I went over to the ticket machine ready to pay. I looked at the information board and saw in the bottom right corner words to the effect that this was a pay on exit car park.

Another sign in larger lettering stated Pay on Exit.

Now I interpreted that as being pay when you leave.

Thus when I left the car park I went to the machine, put in my registration number, and it showed £2.50 which I though was a bit odd as I expected it to show the charge of £3.50 as I had been there for an hour and a half, however, it showed a deparure time of 16:53 and was a standard pay and display ticket with one hour on it.

Anyway I paid the £2.50 and departed, I still have the ticket.

This morning a Penalty Charge Notice arrived from Parking Eye £100 discounted to £60 if paid in 14 days.

in my book a Pay on Exit Car Park is one where one pays on leaving and I have used a camera controlled pay on exit car park before. You enter your registration and it tells you how long you have been parked and how much to pay.

Now I have a feeling that the notice displayed is misleading as it can have two meanings. The obvious one pay when you exit - i.e. drive out - but they don't make it at all clear that they mean when you walk out of the car park.

Why does it not state clearly PAY AND DISPLAY - there is no double meaning and everyone understand pay and display.

I am really feeling annoyed about this - anyone had a similar experience with Parking Eye or any other operator?

 

[Trackman]

Pay on exit as I see it.
I wonder what the small print says

Now I have a feeling that the notice displayed is misleading as it can have two meanings. The obvious one pay when you exit - i.e. drive out - but they don't make it at all clear that they mean when you walk out of the car park.

But you don't usually know how long you will be.

What did the PCN say for the reason?

 

[John Luxton]

Pay on exit as I see it.
I wonder what the small print says


But you don't usually know how long you will be.

What did the PCN say for the reason?

It didn't give a reason just a photo of my car going in and leaving both time stamped and stating Time in Car Park 1 hour 26 minutes.

I have ascertained after making enquiries on a local Facebook Page that the car park is owned by the swimming pool across the road.

They will be receiving my comments about using such cow boys

 

[Kite159]

Ah the parasite known as Parking Eye, a company who will do anything to get extra revenue in an unregulated (*) industry.

(*As the British Parking Association and the other regulator are useless at holding their members to account, and the DVLA don't care about who they sell your personal details to as long as they get their payment)

If I saw those signs I would assume it was park up, do whatever you need to do, and then pay when you return to the car. No doubt the Parking Eye ticket machine is hidden in a dark corner with another car park machine being more visible, similar to a case at one of the south ECML stations.

 

[John Luxton]

Ah the parasite known as Parking Eye, a company who will do anything to get extra revenue in an unregulated (*) industry.

(*As the British Parking Association and the other regulator are useless at holding their members to account, and the DVLA don't care about who they sell your personal details to as long as they get their payment)

If I saw those signs I would assume it was park up, do whatever you need to do, and then pay when you return to the car. No doubt the Parking Eye ticket machine is hidden in a dark corner with another car park machine being more visible, similar to a case at one of the south ECML stations.

There are no dark corners in this car park and only one ticket machine it's a small car park.

 

[Richard S]

I agree that the signage is ambiguous. It is a Pay and Display car park but doesn't explicitly make that clear.
Martin Lewis Money Saving Expert Forum has lots of advice on PCN so I'd recommend you look on there

Parking tickets, fines & parking

Categories - Confused about parking penalties and fines? Get help with all kinds of car parking problems.

forums.moneysavingexpert.com

 

[Tetchytyke]

The issue looks to be simple: you stayed for 1-2 hours but only paid for one hour. It looks to be a pay on exit car park, as in you park up, do what you do, then pay when you come back to the car.

I’d say an appeal on the basis that you paid what the machine told you was owed, and the signage stated this is what happens. Parking Eye will reject the appeal, obviously.

 

[thejuggler]

It is totally deliberate because there are systems similar to this which don't require the driver to know exactly how long they have been parked. However such systems mean fewer invoices for short paying so parking company can't make money.

As above the MSE website is where you need to be and be prepared for the long game.

 

[jupiter]

So it is a pay on exit, not a pay and display? It just presented you with the minimum amount to pay when you put your reg in, rather than the full amount?

It’s a 50/50 one to me, not a slam dunk against parking eye.

 

[John Luxton]

So it is a pay on exit, not a pay and display? It just presented you with the minimum amount to pay when you put your reg in, rather than the full amount?

It’s a 50/50 one to me, not a slam dunk against parking eye.

Yes but the confusing thing is the machine was behaving as if it were a pay and display machine. When I put my registration in at 15:53 the time I was leaving the car park the machine showed a DEPARTURE time of 16:53 if I had added the extra hour the departure time would then have been 17:53. What is even worse the ticket issued showed 16:53 as Purchase Time which it couldn't have been as I was quite a few miles away by then.

 

[jfollows]

You could post at https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/ if you wanted to; read https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/ first.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Sort-of similar experience a few years back - won't go into details - where signage was misleading.
First stage: formal appeal to Parking operator. Rejected, of course. I suspect they all are, much as railway penalties. A rejection reference must be provided. There is no option to resubmit to the company, therefore.....
Second stage: appeal to the Ombudsman (POPLA), with pictures and details, and that reference. There is a questionnaire in which you should supply your detailed narrative etc.
Outcome in my case: Appeal upheld; charge dismissed. Nothing to pay. (Parking Co's are bound by the ombudsman's judgement).

 

[jfollows]

POPLA is staffed by dim people but if you spell things out to them and lead them through the reasons they may uphold an appeal.

 

[styles]

Sounds like the machine made an error and an appeal ought to succeed?

Be interested to know how you get on.

If they try and maintain that the penalty is due I'd be tempted to take this public because any reasonable person should see the machine isn't set up right.

 

[Western Sunset]

I had problems with Parking Eye at the Lidl car park in Eastleigh last year. Here one has 90 mins free, but you have to purchase items instore, scan the receipt and type your reg on a pad by the tills.
Thought I'd done all that but got PCN in the post a week or so later. I knew I hadn't exceeded the free time - indeed this wasn't in dispute - but I knew I'd scanned my till receipt and typed in my correct reg. Unfortunately I couldn't find the receipt...
However, I explained to Parking Eye that I had followed their instructions exactly - I went through each step on the PCN and showed I'd followed them to the letter. Because we do online banking, I sent them the transaction on my bank statement to show I had made an instore purchase.
Upshot is they cancelled the PCN, though told me to be more careful scanning the receipt in future. Obviously they wanted the last word...

 

[Bald Rick]

The issue looks to be simple: you stayed for 1-2 hours but only paid for one hour. It looks to be a pay on exit car park, as in you park up, do what you do, then pay when you come back to the car.

I’d say an appeal on the basis that you paid what the machine told you was owed, and the signage stated this is what happens. Parking Eye will reject the appeal, obviously.

I’ve had two run-ins with Parking Eye. Won both at the POPLA stage.

Given what the signage says, and what has occurred here, it appears to be a nailed on win. But as others have said you do have to set it all out in a logical method for POPLA.

 

[Trackman]

I've been googling about the OPs situation and it seems to be pay on exit on foot. - this is totally misleading.
I also read about a case went to court (I assume small claims) and even the court was confused and of course they won.
POPLA must know about what they up to

 

[thejuggler]

POPLA is paid for by the BPA - a club for the parking companies, so it is far from independent.

 

[CyrusWuff]

POPLA is paid for by the BPA - a club for the parking companies, so it is far from independent.

Though a well-founded appeal to POPLA is more likely to be accepted than one to the even less "Independent" Appeals Service used by IPC (an alternative to the BPA) members.

 

[AlterEgo]

Sympathy with the OP here, that is obviously misleading and unclear.

 

[John Luxton]

I chased this matter up with the Jubilee Pool and received the following from the chief operating officer. In my book it indicate they are using what could be termed a kludge to operate a pay on exit system in other words a pay and display machine!

Thank you for your email.



As you note, Parkingeye, https://www.parkingeye.co.uk/ are indeed contracted to deliver the parking services in St Anthonys.



Our advice is that in the first instance we would recommend that you have avail yourself of their appeals process https://www.parkingeye.co.uk/motorist/appeal/ It’s difficult for us to get involved as we have a legally binding contract with them, as they ensure we are statutorily compliant.



If you feel that they have treated you unfairly then I would suggest that you investigate the independent route https://www.popla.co.uk/



Yes, there are some ANPR systems that link the cameras to the payment machines, which then tell you how long you owe for, but ours is not one of those systems. The cameras capture your entry and exit and cross reference this against fees paid, with the onus on the customer to note when they arrived, when they are leaving and then to pay the relevant amount. We are currently investigating upgrading our meter, but do not yet have a firm direction of travel on this particular matter.



Best regards

 

[Isambard]

Have just been caught out at Bristol Parkway. Thought I’d followed the signs to Long Stay and paid the correct fee but apparently not. Will teach me to check in future what is printed on the ticket. Not amused.

 

[Trackman]

It’s difficult for us to get involved as we have a legally binding contract with them, as they ensure we are statutorily compliant.

Meaning they cant be bothered or too much trouble.
I got booked at Sainsbury's once, I actually walked into Sainsbury's and the matter was dealt with there and then and the customer service desk.
I suppose it could depend on what company they use.

In your case, I wonder how many other people have been diddled out of money? - I would have done the same as you.

 

[John Luxton]

Meaning they cant be bothered or too much trouble.
I got booked at Sainsbury's once, I actually walked into Sainsbury's and the matter was dealt with there and then and the customer service desk.
I suppose it could depend on what company they use.

In your case, I wonder how many other people have been diddled out of money? - I would have done the same as you.

Someone has suggested when replying which I have not done yet by stating that they as the land owner are "joint and severally liable".

 

[BrandanM]

Yes, there are some ANPR systems that link the cameras to the payment machines, which then tell you how long you owe for, but ours is not one of those systems.

One such system being The Harbour long-stay car park just up the road in Penzance. The signs there make it quite clear how it operates. I've used it lots of times without issue.

The St. Anthony Gardens car park signage is misleading in my opinion. I too would have understood it to mean you pay for the duration of your stay just prior to driving out ('exiting'), as you do at The Harbour.

 

[John Luxton]

One such system being The Harbour long-stay car park just up the road in Penzance. The signs there make it quite clear how it operates. I've used it lots of times without issue.

The St. Anthony Gardens car park signage is misleading in my opinion. I too would have understood it to mean you pay for the duration of your stay just prior to driving out ('exiting'), as you do at The Harbour.

I had a used the harbour car park earlier in the day to attend the vintage bus rally. I wish I had stayed there! The harbour car park is run by the council which also used to run the St Anthony Car Park or did when I last used it pre COVID but it seems to have changed ownership and is now part of the Swimming Pool operation.

 

[Western Sunset]

Keep on at them, John. I feel their signage is totally misleading.
Problem with Parking Eye (probably all the other operators too), is that if you appeal to them and lose, the discounted rate no longer applies. So if you then take it up with POPLA and lose, you have to pay the full amount.
Bit of a stitch-up all round.

 

[StoneRoad]

Recently had a similar experience with car park machines.

In my case, the machines were ALL totally inoperable - whether cash or contactless, there was no-one answering at either contact phone number. Wasn't able to complete paying via app as it constantly "timed out" ... put a note in the windscreen.

Following morning, had a PCN. Did another [filmed] excursion around the machines.
Still waiting to hear if appeal has been upheld.

 

[Bikeman78]

On Sunday April 19th I parked at the St Anthony Gardens Car Park on Penzance Promenade opposite the swimming pool. It is operated by Parking Eye.

I have used this car park years ago and it was a pay and display but not used it in the past 8 to 10 years.

I went over to the ticket machine ready to pay. I looked at the information board and saw in the bottom right corner words to the effect that this was a pay on exit car park.

Another sign in larger lettering stated Pay on Exit.

Now I interpreted that as being pay when you leave.

Thus when I left the car park I went to the machine, put in my registration number, and it showed £2.50 which I though was a bit odd as I expected it to show the charge of £3.50 as I had been there for an hour and a half, however, it showed a deparure time of 16:53 and was a standard pay and display ticket with one hour on it.

Anyway I paid the £2.50 and departed, I still have the ticket.

This morning a Penalty Charge Notice arrived from Parking Eye £100 discounted to £60 if paid in 14 days.

in my book a Pay on Exit Car Park is one where one pays on leaving and I have used a camera controlled pay on exit car park before. You enter your registration and it tells you how long you have been parked and how much to pay.

Now I have a feeling that the notice displayed is misleading as it can have two meanings. The obvious one pay when you exit - i.e. drive out - but they don't make it at all clear that they mean when you walk out of the car park.

Why does it not state clearly PAY AND DISPLAY - there is no double meaning and everyone understand pay and display.

I am really feeling annoyed about this - anyone had a similar experience with Parking Eye or any other operator?

I had the Parking Eye experience 10 years ago. Like you, they said I had stayed in the car park longer than I had paid for. The ANPR recorded the arrival and departure time but it wasn't linked to the pay and display machine. Clearly it takes a few minutes to find a space, unload and then fiddle about with the machine. I departed before the printed expiry time. They chased me for a few years and even escalated it to a debt recovery agency. I just ignored them and they have given up. I guess they didn't think they could win in court. This was at the Snowdon Mountain Railway. I've not been back since. If I ever do visit again, I won't be using their car park.

 

[johncrossley]

I don't use privately owned car parks apart from maybe free car parks. For town centres I stick to council owned car parks or park on the road outside the town centre and walk in or get the bus.