What would an ideal recast of the South Western routes look like?

[PTR 444]

1. 2tph London-Weymouth, calling at Woking-Basingstoke-Southampton-Bournemouth-Poole-Wareham-Dorchester-Weymouth

Looking back at your proposal, I can see why you have chosen to include Woking and Basingstoke over Winchester and Southampton Airport in your Weymouth fasts, as those stations have better interchange opportunities. I don’t think cutting the direct link between Weymouth and SOA/Winchester is such a good idea though, hence this is the biggest case for skip-stopping over full standardisation on the SWML. I would personally have 1tph Waterloo - Clapham Junction - Basingstoke - Southampton Airport, and 1tph Waterloo - Woking - Winchester - Southampton Airport. That way, all major SWML stations retain a direct train to Weymouth, and the semi-fast below can pick up the intermediate flows. I’d also look at adding the local stations between Poole and Weymouth into one of them, to maintain their direct link to London.

1. 2tph London-Poole, calling at Woking-Basingstoke-Winchester-Eastleigh-Airport-Southampton-all stations to Poole (possibly with the Weymouth service overtaking the Poole one at Southampton).

A good idea, and would provide a much needed capacity boost for the SWML. If timed exactly halfway between the Salisbury/Exeter trains, this would relieve overcrowding on fast trains between Waterloo and Basingstoke. I’d ideally also time them to leave Waterloo a few minutes after the Weymouth fasts, so they have less chance of getting overtaken by the next one.

1. 1tph Christchurch-Weymouth all stops
2. 1tph Christchurch-Swanage all stops - these timed with the London trains to provide a 15 min clockface frequency between Christchurch and Poole

An interesting idea for a Dorset Metro service, although would likely need significant track upgrades to proceed. You’re also pushing 6tph on the SWML, and there may still be a case to keep XC running to Bournemouth, speaking of which…

Would there be any changes to other TOCs in this case, such as reviving Southampton extensions of CrossCountry York and Newcastle via Doncaster services?

As much as I’d love to maintain the direct CrossCountry service from the South Coast, I feel that it is a red herring in this scenario due to the risk of delays being imported from as far afield as Manchester/Newcastle being imported onto a more reliable SWML network. If 1tph Manchester - Bournemouth and 1tph Newcastle - Southampton can be pathed onto the SWML, then perfect, but if not, I’d look at replacing it with a 2tph Bournemouth - Reading service to maintain connectivity.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Apr 2026 ==

In my eyes, off-peak wise, although it will need magic with the timetable:

1tph London to Weymouth calling at Clapham, Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Southampton Airport, Southampton Central then semi-fast to Weymouth (similar calling pattern to the current XX:35 services)
1tph London to Weymouth calling at Clapham, Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh, Southampton Airport, Southampton Central then a similar calling pattern to the current XX:05 services

These are too slow for what appear to be your headline Weymouth trains. I’d want to be making these the “semi-fast” trains, with a separate fast service skip-stopping stations between Waterloo and Poole

1tph London to Portsmouth via Eastleigh. Same calling pattern as the current XX:09 services other than Micheldever which goes to the stopper

I wouldn’t drop Micheldever from the London service, bearing in mind its usefulness as a park & ride off the A303.

2tph London to Salisbury, 1tph extended to Exeter, both calling at Clapham, Woking (Pick up only), Basingstoke with 1tph calling only at Andover.

1tph for Andover is very poor. It should absolutely maintain 2tph to London and Salisbury at the very least.

2tph London to Basingstoke "Stoppers", similar calling pattern as today
2tph London to Alton, similar calling pattern as today.

Makes sense, although with the Woking flyover, you might want to drop some calls east of Woking.

1tph Basingstoke - Southampton - Bournemouth stopper, calling all stations, including Millbrook/Redbridge (and hence allowing the diesels to run fast Southampton Central to the Airport & towards Romsey, with some extra calls at Peak times)

An interesting idea. I wonder if this could be extended to Reading to provide 2tph between there and Bournemouth (in addition to CrossCountry or its replacement). I wouldn’t drop the Southampton local stations from the Romsey Rounder though, as that undermines their potential for a regular interval service.

2tph London to Portsmouth via Guildford, calling at Clapham, Woking, Guildford with 1tph being fast(ish) to Portsmouth, the other being more of a stopping service after Haslemere
1tph London to Haslemere, calling at Woking, Guildford, then all stops to Haslemere
1tph London to Guildford, calling at Woking & Worplesdon

I’d extend your Haslemere train to Portsmouth & Southsea so that Liss and Liphook can get 2tph, and your Guildford train to Haslemere so that all stations between Woking and Haslemere get at least 2tph.

Gives London - Clapham - Woking - Basingstoke a more even fast service every 15 minutes, would reduce the overcrowding on the XX:20 Exeter services between Clapham & Woking due to the following Portsmouth & Weymouth trains not calling at Clapham, and reduce the overcrowding on the XX:50 Salisbury services between Waterloo & Basingstoke due to the 30-minute gap in services.

Agree this is a good idea, although as mentioned above, these should be supplemented by “headline fast” trains to Weymouth. Ideally something along the following lines between Waterloo and Southampton/Salisbury:

xx00: Weymouth. Calling at Clapham Junction, Basingstoke, Airport, Soton Central.
xx05: Poole. Calling at Clapham Junction, Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Airport, Soton Central.
xx20: Exeter. Calling at Clapham Junction, Woking, Basingstoke, Andover, Salisbury.
xx30 Weymouth. Calling at Woking, Winchester, Airport, Soton Central.
xx35: Poole. Calling at Clapham Junction, Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Airport, Soton Central.
xx50 Salisbury. Calling at Clapham Junction, Woking, Basingstoke, all stations to Salisbury.

Peak-wise then like the current timetable less calls at Clapham & Woking, maybe have a 'token' Express service thrown in which is nonstop London to Winchester & a nonstop London to Andover service for Exeter.

The peak timetable for the Weymouth/Poole trains with portion splitting at Southampton works quite well, so I’d want to keep that for the foreseeable future.

 

[Kite159]

Does Weymouth need a "Headline Fast" service? Not much point in having a non-stop service if it ends up caught up behind a stopper or a freight on the mostly 2 track section between Basingstoke & Southampton and on the mostly 2 track section between Southampton & Weymouth.

Andover would still have 2tph as per today, 1tph Exeter & 1tph Salisbury (with the Salisbury service being the stopper) as a base.

 

[PTR 444]

Does Weymouth need a "Headline Fast" service? Not much point in having a non-stop service if it ends up caught up behind a stopper or a freight on the mostly 2 track section between Basingstoke & Southampton and on the mostly 2 track section between Southampton & Weymouth.

Andover would still have 2tph as per today, 1tph Exeter & 1tph Salisbury (with the Salisbury service being the stopper) as a base.

Your proposal to have all Weymouth trains stop at Clapham Junction, Woking and Basingstoke would slow down the service significantly. I’m not sure if you could make up speed further down the line due to it being slower west of Southampton.

In the absence of any infrastructure improvements (against the “ideal” spirit of this thread), I guess you could have an even interval 2tph service between Waterloo and Southampton, then let each one have separate skip-stopping patterns from there to Weymouth with local connections being picked up by a regular stopper.

 

[swt_passenger]

When both Waterloo to Poole and Waterloo to Portsmouth via Eastleigh ran normally they used paths as far as Eastleigh 30 mins apart. Then in the peaks both paths became through Portsmouth services, and Pooles became a portion working splitting ot joining at Southampton. What that suggests is the base timetable allows for only 4 fast trains Basingstoke to Eastleigh. So do the ideas above still double the ‘via Eastleigh‘ service in the peaks?

 

[Kite159]

Your proposal to have all Weymouth trains stop at Clapham Junction, Woking and Basingstoke would slow down the service significantly. I’m not sure if you could make up speed further down the line due to it being slower west of Southampton.

In the absence of any infrastructure improvements (against the “ideal” spirit of this thread), I guess you could have an even interval 2tph service between Waterloo and Southampton, then let each one have separate skip-stopping patterns from there to Weymouth with local connections being picked up by a regular stopper.

An extra couple of minutes on the journey between London & Southampton by calling at Woking (on those XX:05 services) and at Clapham + Basingstoke on the XX:35 services won't significantly slow down the service

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Looking back at your proposal, I can see why you have chosen to include Woking and Basingstoke over Winchester and Southampton Airport in your Weymouth fasts, as those stations have better interchange opportunities.

Thanks, and yes, that's exactly the point on interchange. I've had many conversations with people (particularly in Hampshire - I have family there) about why they will/won't use trains for some journey. I don't recall ever having anyone say they won't use the train because because a direct journey is a few minutes too slow, and it's also rare that I hear people refusing to use the train because they have to change ONCE from one frequent service to another frequent service. But I've often heard people choose to drive because the (direct) train only goes once an hour and they can't match it to when they need to travel, or because it's unreliable, or because changing trains involves a 30+ minute wait. That's essentially why I think skip-stopping is such a bad idea. It destroys the very things that people need (high frequency, good frequent connections if you have to change) in pursuit of something that makes next to no difference for most people (slightly faster journeys from everywhere to London).

If infrastructure allowed, I'd have EVERYTHING stop at Woking and Basingstoke (and also by the way divert the Waterloo-Staines-Weybridge service to go to Woking instead of Weybridge). If you did that even without adding any more trains, it would make so many more journeys practical compared to today's timetable. And the cost would be a few minutes on journeys to Central London where rail is basically a captive market anyway.

I don’t think cutting the direct link between Weymouth and SOA/Winchester is such a good idea though, hence this is the biggest case for skip-stopping over full standardisation on the SWML. I would personally have 1tph Waterloo - Clapham Junction - Basingstoke - Southampton Airport, and 1tph Waterloo - Woking - Winchester - Southampton Airport. That way, all major SWML stations retain a direct train to Weymouth, and the semi-fast below can pick up the intermediate flows. I’d also look at adding the local stations between Poole and Weymouth into one of them, to maintain their direct link to London.

Weymouth is a smallish town (pop around 50K) about 120 miles from London and outside typical commuting range for basically anywhere East of Southampton. Winchester is also a reasonably small city, so I'm not sure why a direct link between them would be a priority? Likewise, I get the impression Southampton Airport is more of a parkway than a major airport gateway, so I'm struggling to see the importance of a direct link from there to a small town 50 miles away?

Wouldn't it be better to ensure the railway is frequent and usable along the Weymouth-Bournemouth-Southampton corridor and that people can with one change at Southampton get frequent services for all destinations North of Southampton? (as well as keeping direct services to the major interchanges like Basingstoke and Woking)

 

[HamworthyGoods]

If infrastructure allowed, I'd have EVERYTHING stop at Woking and Basingstoke (and also by the way divert the Waterloo-Staines-Weybridge service to go to Woking instead of Weybridge). If you did that even without adding any more trains, it would make so many more journeys practical compared to today's timetable. And the cost would be a few minutes on journeys to Central London where rail is basically a captive market anyway.

Forcing people from Chertsey and Addlestone to have to change at Byfleet & New Haw for the slower service to London rather than the semi-fast service from Weybridge would be far more than just a few minutes on the journey time.

You’d also need to invest considerably at Byfleet & New Haw to make it a suitable interchange station as unlike a Weybridge it doesn’t have lifts.

 

[PTR 444]

Forcing people from Chertsey and Addlestone to have to change at Byfleet & New Haw for the slower service to London rather than the semi-fast service from Weybridge would be far more than just a few minutes on the journey time.

You’d also need to invest considerably at Byfleet & New Haw to make it a suitable interchange station as unlike a Weybridge it doesn’t have lifts.

Chertsey and Addlestone should really have direct services to both Weybridge and Woking. In an ideal world, I’d keep Waterloo - Hounslow - Weybridge as is, and assuming Heathrow Southern Access gets built, run 4tph along the route of Woking - Addlestone - Chertsey - Heathrow.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Apr 2026 ==

Wouldn't it be better to ensure the railway is frequent and usable along the Weymouth-Bournemouth-Southampton corridor and that people can with one change at Southampton get frequent services for all destinations North of Southampton? (as well as keeping direct services to the major interchanges like Basingstoke and Woking)

It would, but I think there needs to be a balance of local and fast options to cater for the varied needs of travellers.

Looking at an upgraded Southampton - Weymouth route in isolation, I think you could get away with a 2tph fast service from London - Weymouth, a 2tph semi-fast from London - Poole, and 2tph from Reading - Weymouth, which could be a standalone service or extension of CrossCountry. I plan to spend some time drafting up revised stopping patterns over the next few days.

 

[Snow1964]

Of course, if SRW gets battery trains they could could be used to increase frequencies, likewise, line side batteries could be installed to be charged slowly but give a power boost as needed to run longer and/or more trains.

Although more likely with battery trains to change the destinations, eg stoppers to Basingstoke extended to Andover.

The massive expansion of Hythe in last few decades would be better destination for Southampton stoppers. Actually this one has been targeted by open access

But really housing and population has shifted drastically, 35 years ago might have made sense to terminate all trains beyond Basingstoke at Salisbury or Exeter, now would make more sense to be Andover, Wilton or Gillingham and not Salisbury (but I realise the infrastructure that would make this easy was stripped out 40-60 years ago when towns were smaller)

Similarly terminating some trains at Yeovil Pen Mill would be better (but this would require the Bradford Abbas curve to be reinstated (closed 1870)

 

[Zomboid]

Similarly terminating some trains at Yeovil Pen Mill would be better (but this would require the Bradford Abbas curve to be reinstated (closed 1870)

Is a reversal at Yeovil Junction really a big impediment to that?

One thought which has crossed my mind (after I've eaten a Crayola sundae) about that end of the SWML is whether an Exeter to Weymouth service would be worth anyone's while, should it be possible to path such a train.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Forcing people from Chertsey and Addlestone to have to change at Byfleet & New Haw for the slower service to London rather than the semi-fast service from Weybridge would be far more than just a few minutes on the journey time.

According to the timetable starting in May, The trains from Chertsey and Addlestone arrive in Weybridge at 08 and 38 minutes past the hour. The semi-fast trains for Waterloo leave at 04 and 35 minutes past. I don't think anyone is going to be making the journey you suggest using the semi-fast service!

Chertsey and Addlestone should really have direct services to both Weybridge and Woking. In an ideal world, I’d keep Waterloo - Hounslow - Weybridge as is, and assuming Heathrow Southern Access gets built, run 4tph along the route of Woking - Addlestone - Chertsey - Heathrow.

I think the problem here is on the Waterloo-Reading line, where lack of 4-tracking/etc. means SWR are trying to make one service do too many things. In a saner World with better infrastructure, Hounslow would have its own dedicated loop service - not running out of London, while Chertsey and Addlestone would be served by a service that runs semi-fast from Waterloo to Staines via Richmond. Chertsey and Addlestone folks would then find it most convenient to use the direct trains to Waterloo, so there would be no issue at all with running those trains to Woking (which would thereby allow easy access to the Staines route from basically anywhere on the SWML.

 

[The Ham]

Is a reversal at Yeovil Junction really a big impediment to that?

One thought which has crossed my mind (after I've eaten a Crayola sundae) about that end of the SWML is whether an Exeter to Weymouth service would be worth anyone's while, should it be possible to path such a train.

I've considered a Waterloo to Weymouth via Yeovil service previously:

The big issue would be that there would be other capacity constraints. For example to get a 3rd train to Weymouth you'd either be looking at a lot of work between Basingstoke and Bournemouth (and electrification upgrades to Weymouth) or between Yeovil and Dorchester.

Although the latter could be fairly simple by reinstating the junction from Yeovil junction to the line to Dorchester (although this is much easier for the southbound services) and by adding a loop at Chetnole (although probably not adding a second platform and just alternating which service, that being northbound or southbound, calls at the platform). Pair this with utilising the loop at Maiden Newton (which has two platform) which would give trains chance to pass at points at 1/3 and 2/3 along the line.

Although I suspect much of the works required would be similar.

Looking at the current timings, the train from Exeter arrives 10 minutes before the train to Exeter leaves. That gives us 3 options for serving Weymouth:
- split the train from London (xx:38) which would give a circa 12 minute change time (rear portion leaves at xx:40) for passengers from Exeter (xx:28), with the train from Weymouth sitting in the platform (xx:20) awaiting the train from Exeter to run to Waterloo
- run a new service from Exeter to Weymouth, timed to arrive around xx:00 and then run a new service from Waterloo (around xx:45) which turns back to Waterloo (around xx:15) which could (as long as it's not more than 10 minutes late) run to Pen Mill.
- split a train coming from Exeter (xx:28 front half to Waterloo), send the rear portion to Weymouth at xx:45 (7 minutes to change from the Exeter bound service to head to Weymouth) the Exeter bound service (xx:38) attaches to the rear of the service from Weymouth (arrives around xx:24)

 

[HamworthyGoods]

According to the timetable starting in May, The trains from Chertsey and Addlestone arrive in Weybridge at 08 and 38 minutes past the hour. The semi-fast trains for Waterloo leave at 04 and 35 minutes past. I don't think anyone is going to be making the journey you suggest using the semi-fast service!

Even though it connects as you say with the stopping service Weybridge to/from London that is still how you travel to/from Waterloo from stations such as Addlestone.

If you do a journey plan enquiry for Addlestone to London you will see it will route you via Weybridge and is half an hour quicker than catching the through very slow service via Hounslow.

 

[Kite159]

Weybridge is one of those stations where connections are quite poor, especially if wanting to travel from Woking towards Chertsey.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Weybridge is one of those stations where connections are quite poor, especially if wanting to travel from Woking towards Chertsey.

It’s one of those stations where it’s difficult to make the connections work in all directions.

The biggest connecting flow is Chertsey / Addlestone to/from London.

 

[PTR 444]

The big issue would be that there would be other capacity constraints. For example to get a 3rd train to Weymouth you'd either be looking at a lot of work between Basingstoke and Bournemouth (and electrification upgrades to Weymouth) or between Yeovil and Dorchester.

Would the limitation of electrification really be an issue in the long term? With battery technology improving rapidly, SWR (or GBR) should now be looking at ordering a standard fleet of dual voltage battery trains, which can run seamlessly onto unelectrified track within the Southern Region. With such trains in operation, there may be a case for removing the substandard third rail between Poole and Weymouth, as London services could just use battery power for that section.

 

[The Ham]

Would the limitation of electrification really be an issue in the long term? With battery technology improving rapidly, SWR (or GBR) should now be looking at ordering a standard fleet of dual voltage battery trains, which can run seamlessly onto unelectrified track within the Southern Region. With such trains in operation, there may be a case for removing the substandard third rail between Poole and Weymouth, as London services could just use battery power for that section.

That post was made in another thread. The issue with via Southampton is that there's historically been limites on the XC services (1.5tph Southampton of Reading), so there's the potential the issue is between Basingstoke and Bournemouth.

However, I've also discussed the potential of extra services along the direct route:

It's why during the Olympics XC war running the extra trains for the sailing events at Weymouth.

Of course, if SRW gets battery trains they could could be used to increase frequencies, likewise, line side batteries could be installed to be charged slowly but give a power boost as needed to run longer and/or more trains.

 

[NCT]

The SWML is part of a complex and intensive railway geography, with a mixture of high-concentration London flows and diverse but lower volume 'country end' flows. There is a number of large towns / cities and 'station banks' in between where volumes demand various shades of turn-up-and-go. The starting point ought to be frequency and timetable legibility.

Accommodating London end demand means services carry ample spare capacity at the country end where frequencies have thinned out. The mode shift potential is far higher at the country end than at the London end, and you are not going to get that mode shift by only focusing on flows with direct trains. Interchanges have to be a central part of timetable design. This means service regularity and once again, timetable legibility, and also crucially, symmetry.

All TOCs working to a common symmetry is how you get connections to work and work consistently in both directions, and to achieve good combined frequencies in both directions.

SWML fast lines have 'first stop Surbiton' services mean that you can't just take a subset of services in isolation. The thing has to be planned as a whole with considerations of Suburban Line interaction.

Once the 701 rollout is settled and 450s fully return to Main Line workings, restoring pre-Covid service levels would be a worthwhile and achievable goal.

Assuming no CR2, a simple peak Main Line timetable structure might look like (all services presented as starting from Waterloo and going outwards)

First stop Surbiton then

- 2tph Guildford via Cobham
- 4tph all stops to Woking

First stop Woking then Suburban

- 2tph Alton
- 4tph Woking then all stops Basingstoke

Portsmouth direct line

- 2tph fast, stopping at Woking, Guildford, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton only
- 2tph, Woking then all stops overtaken at Haselmere

Winchester

- 2tph fast, stopping at Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Southampton Airport, Southampton, then dividing to 'cover all bases' to Weybridge
- 2tph semi-fast, stopping at Woking, Basingstoke then all stops Eastleigh, one Southampton one Portsmouth

Salisbury

- 2tph, of which 1tph to Exeter

============

This makes 22tph. think the pre-Covid timetable had more in the peaks. If demand recovers well then Portsmouth might have its 6tph back.

No skip stopping. Ideally all services stop at Clapham Junction, Woking and Basingstoke where they pass through, but recognising present infrastructure constraints mean you have to roll back from this ideal. Inability to call at Clapham Junction in the peaks due to dwell and reoccupation constraints is likely to persist.

Woking and Basingstoke being served by all fast trains means you get a fast metro between London, Woking and Basingstoke. Woking and Basingstoke also act as interchange nodes, places like Weybridge and Farnborough have high-frequency journey opportunities to points west with easy interchanges. No checking train-by-train 'does my train stop at Winchfield', or 'oh sh!t this train doesn't stop at Woking now I'm stuck on it until London'.

 

[Bald Rick]

This makes 22tph. think the pre-Covid timetable had more in the peaks. If demand recovers well then Portsmouth might have its 6tph back.

Pre Covid was 24tph in one hour up, but fewer down (21tph IIRC)

 

[PTR 444]

That post was made in another thread. The issue with via Southampton is that there's historically been limites on the XC services (1.5tph Southampton of Reading), so there's the potential the issue is between Basingstoke and Bournemouth.

What is the specific capacity constraint that prevents 2tph XC to Southampton? Is it the requirement for a freight path every other hour?

 

[Kite159]

It’s one of those stations where it’s difficult to make the connections work in all directions.

The biggest connecting flow is Chertsey / Addlestone to/from London.

Which puts punters onto the stopping service both ways rather than the semifast service

 

[The Ham]

What is the specific capacity constraint that prevents 2tph XC to Southampton? Is it the requirement for a freight path every other hour?

To be honest I don't know for sure, however the flat junction at Southcote is likely to be a significant issue.

Looking at real time trains for Wednesday there were 17 movements (and at least one other path unused) between 13:00 and 14:00. With 18 movements in the following hour.

It appears that one 0.5tph is a XC service whilst the other 0.5tph is the GWR semi fast to/from Exeter.

The other constraint is likely to be the flat junction at Basingstoke - which could be overcome a bit by sending the Basingstoke Stoppers beyond Basingstoke so the flat crossing isn't as heavy used (potentially to Andover, however could also be to a reopened station at Oakley).

Finally there's the question of can the twin track sections cope with extra (presumably fairly fast) passenger services given that there's already 5 used paths in each direction (same times band date as above) with a mixture of freight and passengers services as well as some unused freight paths in those hours.

Although it's possibly to be at Northam Junction (another flat junction) with 28 and 27 movements (2 way) in those same hours.

 

[PTR 444]

To be honest I don't know for sure, however the flat junction at Southcote is likely to be a significant issue.

Looking at real time trains for Wednesday there were 17 movements (and at least one other path unused) between 13:00 and 14:00. With 18 movements in the following hour.

It appears that one 0.5tph is a XC service whilst the other 0.5tph is the GWR semi fast to/from Exeter.

Ahh interesting. I never really imagined that junction to be really busy, especially before taking into anccount all of the GWR trains through Newbury and the aggregate trains.

Both the Exeter semi-fast and XC Newcastle - Southampton should ideally run hourly, so any service enhancements will likely need some infrastructure improvements. I wonder if it would be worthwhile to four-track the railway between Reading and Southcote Junction and completely segregate the Reading - Basingstoke lines from London - Newbury. Apart from Reading West station being in the way, I can’t see any major obstacles to doing so.

This may necessitate curtailing XC from Manchester/Newcastle at Reading and running the southern portion as a separate service, but integrating all Reading - Basingstoke trains better with the SWR timetable might lead to a more reliable service overall.

The other constraint is likely to be the flat junction at Basingstoke - which could be overcome a bit by sending the Basingstoke Stoppers beyond Basingstoke so the flat crossing isn't as heavy used (potentially to Andover, however could also be to a reopened station at Oakley).

Surely sending the Reading stoppers beyond Basingstoke will cause more constraints as it will need to cross both the Up Fast and Up Slow tracks to reach the Down platforms on the SWML. Better to keep Platform 5 utilised by keeping the stoppers there.

Finally there's the question of can the twin track sections cope with extra (presumably fairly fast) passenger services given that there's already 5 used paths in each direction (same times band date as above) with a mixture of freight and passengers services as well as some unused freight paths in those hours.

Although it's possibly to be at Northam Junction (another flat junction) with 28 and 27 movements (2 way) in those same hours.

Looking at it, I think some additional 4 track sections are a must in order to enable a better passenger service between Basingstoke and Southampton. Would likely need a complete rebuild of Micheldever station so that the stoppers can run on the outer tracks, while fast trains overtake.

 

[The Ham]

Ahh interesting. I never really imagined that junction to be really busy, especially before taking into anccount all of the GWR trains through Newbury and the aggregate trains.

Both the Exeter semi-fast and XC Newcastle - Southampton should ideally run hourly, so any service enhancements will likely need some infrastructure improvements. I wonder if it would be worthwhile to four-track the railway between Reading and Southcote Junction and completely segregate the Reading - Basingstoke lines from London - Newbury. Apart from Reading West station being in the way, I can’t see any major obstacles to doing so.

I believe that it might be simpler to create an overpass to lift one of the lines so that it removes the need for the Reading Newbury services to block the Reading Basingstoke services.

This may necessitate curtailing XC from Manchester/Newcastle at Reading and running the southern portion as a separate service, but integrating all Reading - Basingstoke trains better with the SWR timetable might lead to a more reliable service overall.

Depending on the timeline, it might be that XC services not extending below Reading might not be an issue, if the Southern Approach to Heathrow is operational as with a single change (Woking rather than Reading) you'd get a higher frequency of service (4tph Woking to Old Oak Common, rather than 1.5tph into Reading using XC, with GWR services this is in theory 4tph in some hours but that adds a second change at Basingstoke).

That could, without messing up paths too much potentially (even without fixing Southcote) give a 3tph Reading Basingstoke and 1tph to Exeter (semi fast).

Although that may not be an even 20, 20, 20 service pattern, however with the pathsonly needing to run Reading (low numbered platforms) to Basingstoke (platform 5) the main conflict would be Southcote Junction and so might be a simpler exercise than fitting in an extra XC service (or the extra Exeter Semi-fast).

Surely sending the Reading stoppers beyond Basingstoke will cause more constraints as it will need to cross both the Up Fast and Up Slow tracks to reach the Down platforms on the SWML. Better to keep Platform 5 utilised by keeping the stoppers there.

Sorry, wasn't clear, I meant the Waterloo Basingstoke Stoppers which cross from platform 1 to the up slows twice each hour and sit in platform 1 for a few minutes upon arrival from Waterloo.

However, if we're also looking at ditching XC south of Reading (due to Old Oak Common being a better route for going north) that would also reduce flat junction crossings.

Looking at it, I think some additional 4 track sections are a must in order to enable a better passenger service between Basingstoke and Southampton. Would likely need a complete rebuild of Micheldever station so that the stoppers can run on the outer tracks, while fast trains overtake.

Indeed, however, the junction at Northam is probably the bigger issue.

Whilst 4 tracking would be the best option, I do wonder if a third line (so up, bi-directional, down) might be enough, especially if it allows the freight to keep moving over a longer length (due to potentially being able to run it for a longer length without needing more railway land or at the very least not as much land).

 

[Zomboid]

However, if we're also looking at ditching XC south of Reading (due to Old Oak Common being a better route for going north) that would also reduce flat junction crossings.

There's a more than negligible flow from stations south of Basingstoke to stations north of Oxford. OOC via Heathrow might enable the 0.5 to be curtailed, but I cutting the SWML off the XC network entirely would break a lot of direct station pairs and wouldn't be a good move, IMO.

 

[JamesT]

Is the limitation on XC South of Reading infrastructure, or lack of rolling stock/staff?

 

[The Ham]

There's a more than negligible flow from stations south of Basingstoke to stations north of Oxford. OOC via Heathrow might enable the 0.5 to be curtailed, but I cutting the SWML off the XC network entirely would break a lot of direct station pairs and wouldn't be a good move, IMO.

Fair enough, although it does depend on if having a true 3tph service Basingstoke to Reading is more useful than having 1tph which is direct and 2tph (one of which probably doesn't connect to a XC service other than the one which they would use anyway).

As whist those station pairs are useful for those between those stations, for those whose local station isn't on the XC network they may not have a good connection to join the XC 1tph and so may realistically only have 1tph which is useful to them.

Also the capacity of a 166 (3 coaches) is only slightly below that of a 222 (5 coaches) as they both have 246 seats but the 166's have 3+2 seats which aren't always all usable.

 

[NCT]

Is the limitation on XC South of Reading infrastructure, or lack of rolling stock/staff?

Or strength of demand?

 

[swt_passenger]

What is the specific capacity constraint that prevents 2tph XC to Southampton? Is it the requirement for a freight path every other hour?

IIRC that was the explanation I saw in the Southampton extension track access application. It would also have also needed another unit in service per day.

 

[Mgameing123]

Following on from the popular thread on an “ideal” recast for Bristol, i’d be interested to see how the same could be achieved on a much more complex network, covering a larger commuter belt serving multiple cites.

A fully enhanced timetable on the SWML is unlikely to happen for many years, if not decades, owing to the necessary infrastructure improvements needed to make it a reality, but let's imagine Crossrail 2, Woking Flyover, Basingstoke - Southampton quad tracking and double tracking on the WofE line are fully complete and in operation. What would your ideal ambition for improved service provision within the SWML operating area look like?

For the purposes of this thread, Only the "country" services which run west of Woking are included. My ideal recast would be as follows:

1tph London Waterloo - Weymouth
Calling at: Clapham Junction, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southampton Central, New Milton, Christchurch, Pokesdown, Bournemouth, Poole, Hamworthy, Holton Heath, Wareham, Wool, Moreton, Dorchester South, Upwey, WEYMOUTH

1tph London Waterloo - Weymouth
Calling at: Winchester, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southampton Central, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth, Branksome, Parkstone, Poole, Hamworthy, Wareham, Dorchester South, WEYMOUTH

1tph London Waterloo - Poole
Calling at: Woking, Winchester, Eastleigh, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southampton Central, Totton, Brockenhurst, Sway, New Milton, Hinton Admiral, Christchurch, Pokesdown, Bournemouth, Branksome, Parkstone, POOLE

1tph London Waterloo - Poole
Calling at: Clapham Junction, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southampton Central, Totton, Ashurst (New Forest), Beaulieu Road, Brockenhurst, New Milton, Christchurch, Pokesdown, Bournemouth, Branksome, Parkstone, POOLE

1tph London Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour
Calling at: Woking, Farnborough (Main), Fleet, Basingstoke, Micheldever, Winchester, Eastleigh, Hedge End, Botley, Fareham, Portchester, Cosham, Hilsea, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea, PORTSMOUTH HARBOUR

1tph London Waterloo - Fareham
Calling at: Clapham Junction, Farnborough (Main), Fleet, Basingstoke, Winchester, Shawford, Eastleigh, Hedge End, Botley, FAREHAM

1tph London Waterloo - Exeter St David's
Calling at: Clapham Junction, Basingstoke, Andover, Salisbury, Gillingham, Sherborne, Yeovil Junction, Crewkerne, Axminster, Honiton, Cranbrook, Pinhoe, Exeter Central, EXETER ST DAVID'S

1tph London Waterloo - Yeovil Pen Mill
Calling at: Woking, Basingstoke, Andover, Salisbury, Tisbury, Gillingham, Templecombe, Sherborne, Yeovil Junction, YEOVIL PEN MILL

1tph London Waterloo - Salisbury
Calling at: Clapham Junction, Woking, Basingstoke, Oakley, Overton, Whitchurch, Andover, Grateley, SALISBURY

1tph London Waterloo - Andover
Calling at: Woking, Hook, Basingstoke, Oakley, Overton, Whitchurch, ANDOVER

2tph London Waterloo - Basingstoke
Calling at: Clapham Junction, Surbiton, Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge, Woking, Brookwood, Farnborough (Main), Fleet, Winchfield, Hook, BASINGSTOKE

2tph London Waterloo - Alton
Calling at: Surbiton, West Byfleet, Woking, Brookwood, Ash Vale, Aldershot, Farnham, Bentley, ALTON

2tph London Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour
Calling at: Woking, Guildford, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea, PORTSMOUTH HARBOUR

2tph London Waterloo - Portsmouth & Southsea
Calling at: Clapham Junction, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Liphook, Liss, Petersfield, Rowlands Castle, Havant, Bedhampton, Hilsea, Fratton, PORTSMOUTH & SOUTHSEA

2tph London Waterloo - Haslemere
Calling at: Clapham Junction, Woking, Worplesdon, Guildford, Farncombe, Godalming, Milford, Witley, HASLEMERE

2tph Romsey - Hythe (Southampton Metro service)
Calling at: Chandler's Ford, Eastleigh, Swaythling, St Denys, Southampton Central, Millbrook, Redbridge, Totton, Marchwood, HYTHE


Please feel free to give constructive criticism and include your own suggestions.

Why are there many trains skipping Clapham Junction?