Non Gatwick Express units on Airport Express services

[SECR 65]

Over the past couple of weeks, the number of 387/1s and 387/3s in white (or even GWR) livery working Gatwick Express services seems to have increased. I think this may have been discussed previously but a few weeks ago GatEx services were mostly red 387/2s, which seems to currently not be the case.

For example, on GatEx today:

There are two pairs of red liveried 387/2 units working
387204+387213
387215+387209

There are two pairs of mixed 387/2 working with a 387/1
387224+387117
387227+387122 (It seems 387227 has failed and this diagram is now worked by 387207+387122)

There are two pairs of non GatEx 387/1 and 387/3
387302+387172 (Peak extra diagram, both AM and PM)
387118+387119 (These have swapped onto an Eastbourne diagram part way through the day - replaced with solo 387125 ex-Eastbourne)

Therefore, approximately 50% of GX units today are red 387/2s. About 1/3 of services contain no GX unit, and about 2/3 of services contain at least one non-GX unit.

Does anyone know why such workings have become more regular lately?

 

[yorkie]

I think GTR have pretty much given up on trying to differentiate their GX brand from their Southern brand.

So, if it's operationally more convenient for a "Southern" branded unit to be on a "GX" brand diagram, they won't hesitate to allocate the unit to that diagram.

I suspect there is an acceptance within both GTR and the DfT that the premium charging is unlawful and that premium fares are coming to an end. They don't want to admit it while the legal matter is ongoing, but they effectively know the game is up.

 

[stadler]

All of the 387/1 and 387/2 and 387/3 units are part of one common pool. There are no separate diagrams. It is completely random which end up on which. It is very common for the London to East Coastway services to be majority Gatwick Express branded units and the Gatwick Express services to be majority Southern branded units.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think GTR have pretty much given up on trying to differentiate their GX brand from their Southern brand.

So, if it's operationally more convenient for a "Southern" branded unit to be on a "GX" brand diagram, they won't hesitate to allocate the unit to that diagram.

I suspect there is an acceptance within both GTR and the DfT that the premium charging is unlawful and that premium fares are coming to an end. They don't want to admit it while the legal matter is ongoing, but they effectively know the game is up.

And about time too. Its a joke.

 

[foggy69]

Don't forget the London Bridge peak hour services to/from Eastbourne and Bognor that are formed of 387 units, that don't stop at Gatwick. It is a bit difficult for your average punter to understand why a train with Gatwick Express on the side doesn't stop there

 

[SECR 65]

Somewhat improved situation today:

8 GatEx 387/2s on GatEx workings (201/204/205/209/211/213/215/217)
3 white 387/1s (122/125/127)
1 white 387/3 (303)

211 and 127 are on the peak extra diagram.

 

[SECR 65]

There've been some short forms of single 4 coach units in the past couple of days. Today there is a single red /2, and also a single white 301, working along the usual mix of white and red 8 coach services.

 

[Western Sunset]

One can get three liveries in the same train...

 

[izvor]

One can get three liveries in the same train...

Very good! And slightly crazy...

 

[LA50041]

All of the 387/1 and 387/2 and 387/3 units are part of one common pool. There are no separate diagrams. It is completely random which end up on which. It is very common for the London to East Coastway services to be majority Gatwick Express branded units and the Gatwick Express services to be majority Southern branded units.

This is not correct.
The 387/2 are diagrammed separately from the rest (internally as 387/3).
What fleet allocate on the day however is a completely different thing.

 

[SECR 65]

Not too bad today. Four diagrams are 2x red 387/2, the remaining two diagrams are a red 387/2 working with a white /3. So no /1s on Gatex today as far as I can see. 5/6 of the units are red.

That said, yesterday there was a single 4 coach 387/1 in GWR green on the Express.....

 

[cle]

Don't forget the London Bridge peak hour services to/from Eastbourne and Bognor that are formed of 387 units, that don't stop at Gatwick. It is a bit difficult for your average punter to understand why a train with Gatwick Express on the side doesn't stop there

It's insane, and clearly shows that it is a single operator and network - the premium fares should be eliminated immediately. Or have a mass protest (imagine the admin for PCs if everyone on a GatEx had Southern tickets....) - a bit like how strikes in Australia used to show up but open the gates, vs go home - help the people for once.

 

[dk1]

Used to brighten up the Fens when these mixed with GN & GWR liveried units worked the Kings Lynn route.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Southern West Coastway services have for some time been operated with 377s in Southern livery and 387s in Gatwick Express livery.

Clearly Thameslink Southern Great Northern rolling stock should be first on the list to be repainted with the Great British Railways livery as the current mix of liveries is just causing confusion.

 

[Chiltern006]

what really needs to happen with the GX is dedicated stock not used by Southern to prevent this happening

 

[mmh]

what really needs to happen with the GX is dedicated stock not used by Southern to prevent this happening

If it was all in the same livery it wouldn't matter.

 

[London Trains]

what really needs to happen with the GX is dedicated stock not used by Southern to prevent this happening

Even better would be scrapping the GX entirely, getting rid of the scam fares and adding stops at Clapham Junction and East Croydon!

 

[SECR 65]

Certainly some of the red units need repainting. 27 units for 12 diagrams.....

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 May 2026 ==

Both yesterday and today have seen 11 out of 12 GX diagrams being red 387/2s. 387117 seems to be a regular culprit - it hasn't been on a Southern diagram in about a week! https://live.rail-record.co.uk/allox/?loco=387117

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Even better would be scrapping the GX entirely, getting rid of the scam fares and adding stops at Clapham Junction and East Croydon!

Careful... the DfT would solve the issue by simply applying the higher fares to everything...

 

[boiledbeans2]

what really needs to happen with the GX is dedicated stock not used by Southern to prevent this happening

They converted a couple of SWT 442s for GX work. Is it too late to convert a few SWR 455s for GX work?

 

[43096]

They converted a couple of SWT 442s for GX work. Is it too late to convert a few SWR 455s for GX work?

A couple of 442s? All 24 of them ended up with Southern/GatEx.

There were a couple of 458s (458001/2) that were converted for GatEx use, but were never used.

 

[swt_passenger]

Is it too late to convert a few SWR 455s for GX work?

Yes, almost certainly, unless there’s an enough individual carriages awaiting the torch to make up a set, they‘re down to 1 or 2 preserved units only.

 

[SECR 65]

Looks like all GatEx services are red /2s today - not sure about the PM peak only though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 May 2026 ==

When red 387/2s operate on Southern services, the dot matrixes on platforms display "A Southern service formed of (some) Gatwick Express carriages".

Does the same happen in reverse, when white units are on the GatEx - "A Gatwick Express service formed of (some) Southern carriages"?