Short (under 15 miles) lines that would be useful to electrify

[cle]

That's as may be, but thought we were constrained by these electrification infill proposals being less than 15 miles length. The Morecambe branch is only an additional couple of miles or so needing doing. But would it ever then be worthwhile doing the occasionally-used line on to Heysham. And Carnforth to Barrow-in-Furness is almost 30 miles and so is maybe out of scope for the purpose of this thread. Unless the OP maybe says otherwise.

That interworks with the Barrow and Morecambe lines. If you do one it makes sense to do all three

I think the idea would be to separate these services. Run hourly electric Man Airport - Windermere. Not sure how long that unit could be, as it'll be a prime Man-Bolton-Preston service too.

Barrow I would maybe explore 1tph Liverpool-Barrow (bi/wired to Lancaster) - or maybe something like 1tph Preston, 1tph Lancaster to up it to 2tph as a compromise. As I expect on the Barrow-Manchester, many change to go to Scotland, Liverpool, Birmingham and of course London - so journeys aren't probably as geared to Manchester explicitly.

Or try aim for Victoria via Wigan NW perhaps.

 

[brad465]

Reception sidings then diesels.

Which in the UK could be - wire to reception sidings then battery electric shunters.

The Mendip quarries are already laid out like this, and even trialled a battery-electric shunter. The problem here though is electrifying to the quarries is a lot further than 15 miles.

 

[321362]

That's as may be, but thought we were constrained by these electrification infill proposals being less than 15 miles length. The Morecambe branch is only an additional couple of miles or so needing doing. But would it ever then be worthwhile doing the occasionally-used line on to Heysham. And Carnforth to Barrow-in-Furness is almost 30 miles and so is maybe out of scope for the purpose of this thread. Unless the OP maybe says otherwise.

You could separate them - unsure of how constrained the current Barrow line is but if you displace 195s from Windermere you can probably run more Barrow services (potentially also more Corkickle stuff given the reduced service during the closure of Bransty Tunnel)

 

[Tetchytyke]

That interworks with the Barrow and Morecambe lines. If you do one it makes sense to do all three

The Windermere branch doesn’t interwork with the Morecambe branch. It does sort of interwork with the Barrow-Manchester trains, but it doesn’t need to. If it were electrified it could just as easily interwork with the Blackpool-Manchester trains.

 

[JohnRegular]

The Severn Beach line through to platform 1 at Temple Meads could be done, at the cost of the through workings to Weston. Really could do with as much double tracking that can be achieved before going to the trouble of wiring it, though.

 

[Nottingham59]

What are some short-ish lines that would be easy enough to electrify and would have a positive impact on the network as a whole?
Obviously electrifying any section of track isn't easy, but let's say relatively easy comparing it to other projects (cough cough MML)

I'd start with every section of line in the country that currently carries 7tph or more, and then develop these islands of electrification to support a wholesale batterification of the network.

The current list is:

• Sheffield - Meadowhall (11tph)
• Cardiff Central - Queen St (11tph)
• Marylebone - Neasden (8.5 tph)
• Bristol TM - Stapleton Road (8.5 tph)
• Crossgates - Micklefield (8tph: 4TP, 3NT, 1XC)
• Exeter St Davids - Central (8tph)
• Dore - Sheffield (8 tph)
• Hull - Gilberdyke (7.5tph)
• Halifax - Bradford (7tph)
• Trent Triangle - Nottingham (7tph)

I'd then add recharge capability at selected remote terminus platforms like Penzance and Cleethorpes, and nodes like Salisbury and Exeter.

A new specification for regional battery trains with an operating range of 100 miles off the wires and rapid recharge capability on the wires would give a near complete electrification of the entire GB network. (By "100mph operating range" I mean able to cover that length of gap in all conditions, with enough spare to stop short and reverse back to base if necessary. This could mean a range of 200 miles on battery alone, or a diesel range extender for use in emergency.)

List of lines taken from:

Trivia: What sections of unelectrified line carry the most trains per hour?

Considering lines that are not yet electrified, what sections carry the most trains per hour (tph)? At this stage I'm only considering timetabled passenger services, and not including freight or ECS/NR movements. Or station throats. I can think of the following: Dore - Sheffield (8 tph, I...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Snow1964]

I would do Bath to Westbury, there are 3 trains an hour, more south of Bradford Junction, and freight trains (many stone trains and some to Southampton docks).

The section from Bathampton through Bath to Bristol see 5-6 trains each was per hour, so ought to justify electrification.

But my reasoning is that if the Bath-Westbury section is done could have BEMUs running on just about every service in the area, rather than aging DMUs

 

[Acathater]

The Windermere branch doesn’t interwork with the Morecambe branch. It does sort of interwork with the Barrow-Manchester trains, but it doesn’t need to. If it were electrified it could just as easily interwork with the Blackpool-Manchester trains.

Windermere interworks with Barrow which interworks with Morecambe...which interworks with Leeds. Very difficult to change just one without affecting the rest

 

[Zomboid]

Should unit diagrams in 2026 really be used as a justification to not electrify a route? Seems a bit tail wagging dog, that.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Windermere interworks with Barrow which interworks with Morecambe...which interworks with Leeds. Very difficult to change just one without affecting the rest

Barrow doesn't interwork with Morecambe.

Well, to be more exact, Manchester to Barrow (which is what interworks with Manchester to Windermere) doesn't interwork with Lancaster to Morecambe.

There is some limited interworking between Barrow-Lancaster and Lancaster-Morecambe/Heysham although, even then, for most of the day it is the same 156 that shuttles backwards and forwards between Lancaster and the seaside. Leeds-Morecambe doesn't interwork with anything else.

That's on the unit side. Crew may be different. But if you can drive a 195 you can (when trained) also drive a 331...

 

[BankQuayLowLvl]

Preston to Ormskirk happens to just about fit the definition. Too bad about the de facto ban on further third rail electrification.

you'd need to do Salford-Hindley and Wigan-Headbolt lane to convert that section to EMUs

Merseyrail expansions make the most sense to me. I assume there is platform capacity at Preston as there's two southfacing bays, though these may need extending. You'd presumably need extra terminating capacity at Wigan Wallgate (and run the existing Headbolt Lane Northern service through to Southport or terminate this too. Is there capacity at WNW to turn an hourly Atherton line service?)

Whether this is politically viable (both the expansion of Merseyrail and the expansion of third rail) has been done to death already, but it represents an obvious service rationalisation.

 

[321362]

Is there capacity at WNW to turn an hourly Atherton line service?)

probably, would take a bit of shuffling but no reason why not, alternatively it could go to Preston I guess or it could be turned at Leyland if you could find a southbound path across Euxton Junction

 

[stevieinselby]

I'd start with every section of line in the country that currently carries 7tph or more, and then develop these islands of electrification to support a wholesale batterification of the network.

The current list is:

• Sheffield - Meadowhall (11tph)
• Cardiff Central - Queen St (11tph)
• Marylebone - Neasden (8.5 tph)
• Bristol TM - Stapleton Road (8.5 tph)
• Crossgates - Micklefield (8tph: 4TP, 3NT, 1XC)
• Exeter St Davids - Central (8tph)
• Dore - Sheffield (8 tph)
• Hull - Gilberdyke (7.5tph)
• Halifax - Bradford (7tph)
• Trent Triangle - Nottingham (7tph)

I'm intrigued by some of your numbers there – Hull to Gilberdyke is typically 4–5tph, the Exeter link is 5tph, Bradford to Halifax is 5tph. There might be odd hours where more trains cluster together but those are the consistent patterns throughout the day.

The key question is not how many trains run on a particular section, but how many of them could benefit from that electrification. It seems very unlikely that XC trains would be able to run on batteries with just existing wires on ECML/WCML plus short islands at Sheffield, Birmingham, Bristol and Reading – so you would need to remove any XC trains from the numbers.

 

[321362]

Chester to Crewe would potentially allow Pendolinos to run to Chester, allowing more 805s to run an increased Holyhead service (and potentially Shrewsbury too) but I don't think Avanti have enough 390s as is and they would need a few more to serve Chester.

Also, I suspect it's over 15 miles

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Also, I suspect it's over 15 miles

Indeed. Chester to Crewe is ballpark 21 miles.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Ravensthorpe - Church Fenton

Manchester Victoria - Rochdale

Northallerton - Middlesborough

 

[Bishops]

Given that the new platform at Darlington will split the Bishop Auckland - Saltburn service, electrifying Darlington - Bishop makes sense

what do you mean 'split' the service?

Id rather see money spent on connecting bishop to the west bishop station enabling through trains from stanhope to Saltburn of a weekend or something similar and a few specials from time to time

 

[Farigiraf]

what do you mean 'split' the service?

Id rather see money spent on connecting bishop to the west bishop station enabling through trains from stanhope to Saltburn of a weekend or something similar and a few specials from time to time

If I understand the plans correctly, the new platforms at Darlington will allow the Saltburn - Bishop Auckland service to be split into separate Saltburn - Darlington and Darlington - Bishop Auckland routes, with both potentially running more frequently. It removes a useful direct link but reduces the amount of trains crossing the ECML at Darlington.

 

[Anvil1984]

If I understand the plans correctly, the new platforms at Darlington will allow the Saltburn - Bishop Auckland service to be split into separate Saltburn - Darlington and Darlington - Bishop Auckland routes, with both potentially running more frequently. It removes a useful direct link but reduces the amount of trains crossing the ECML at Darlington.

The initial plans were for this to happen I believe but the service is staying as it is now

 

[Nottingham59]

I'm intrigued by some of your numbers there – Hull to Gilberdyke is typically 4–5tph, the Exeter link is 5tph, Bradford to Halifax is 5tph. There might be odd hours where more trains cluster together but those are the consistent patterns throughout the day.

I'm just going by what posters on that thread said. Looks like they were counting trains in each direction for those particular lines. So, lowering the threshold to 6tph each way should give us:

Sheffield - Meadowhall (11tph)
Cardiff Central - Queen St (11tph)
Marylebone - Neasden (8.5 tph)
Bristol TM - Stapleton Road (8.5 tph)
Crossgates - Micklefield (8tph: 4TP, 3NT, 1XC)
Dore - Sheffield (8 tph)
Trent Triangle - Nottingham (7tph)
Mirfield - Ravensthorpe (6tph?)
Trent Triangle - Derby (6tph)
Leicester - Wigston (6tph)
Manchester Victoria - Rochdale (6tph)
Saughton Jn - Inverkeithing (6tph: 1 Aberdeen, 2 Leven, 1 Cowdenbeath, 1 Perth, 1 Dundee)

That still gives a good starter for electrification islands.

It seems very unlikely that XC trains would be able to run on batteries with just existing wires on ECML/WCML plus short islands at Sheffield, Birmingham, Bristol and Reading – so you would need to remove any XC trains from the numbers.

Birmingham to Doncaster is less than 100 miles. Well within what is feasible with battery only.

What Cross Country needs is a fleet of trimodes: mostly battery with a couple of diesel gensets to cover the longer distances off the wires.

One specification that would work very well for XC would be the Hitachi 80x-T trimode, described in this thread:

Modelling performance and range of Hitachi 80x Trimode trains, and implications for future mainline electrification

BATTERY TRAIN ENDURANCE When thinking about electrifying the rest of the GB mainline network, it seems to me that one key constraint is going to be the performance and range of 125mph-capable battery units. I have three hard pieces of evidence to help model this; if anyone has any better data...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Bishops]

If I understand the plans correctly, the new platforms at Darlington will allow the Saltburn - Bishop Auckland service to be split into separate Saltburn - Darlington and Darlington - Bishop Auckland routes, with both potentially running more frequently. It removes a useful direct link but reduces the amount of trains crossing the ECML at Darlington.

ahh yes, sorry missunderstood what you said - but dont think its going ahead at all

 

[d9009alycidon]

Barrhead to Kilmarnock is an obvious one for me. If the GSW line services were run from Carlisle - Kilmarnock - Ayr connecting with electric services Kilmarnock to Glasgow, it could eliminate all regular DMU services into Central (I am aware that additional electric units are required for this service and the odd East Kilbride services still in the hands of 156s)

 

[stevieinselby]

Birmingham to Doncaster is less than 100 miles. Well within what is feasible with battery only.

Birmingham to Bristol is close to 100 miles, and Bristol to Plymouth is well over 100 miles.
But it isn't just the distance between wires that we need to worry about, but whether the train can be fully charged while it's on those electrified sections.
Recharging is not instantaneous, it takes a bit of time, and if you're putting enough electrons into the battery to power an intercity train to run 100 miles, that is likely to be more than can be accommodated while at a station stop or while running for the very short distance under the wires that you're positing for these islands of electrification, unless we have massive works to upgrade the grid and power supplies to cope with huge short-term spikes in demand without causing brownouts.

 

[The exile]

Birmingham to Doncaster is less than 100 miles. Well within what is feasible with battery only.

You need to be well within what is prudent - which itself is well within what is feasible. Put it another way - if a diesel locomotive in a very large country has fuel tanks that will take it 1000 miles under normal operation - it would be feasible to put fuelling opportunities 950 miles apart. Prudence would suggest something more like 450 maximum.

 

[Nottingham59]

Recharging is not instantaneous, it takes a bit of time, and if you're putting enough electrons into the battery to power an intercity train to run 100 miles, that is likely to be more than can be accommodated while at a station stop or while running for the very short distance under the wires that you're positing for these islands of electrification, unless we have massive works to upgrade the grid and power supplies to cope with huge short-term spikes in demand without causing brownouts.

Well, the way I see it is that Bromsgrove to Proof House junction takes 30 minutes. That should be enough time under the wires to add over 100 miles of range to a BEMU with the right specification. That'll get XC to onto the wires at Doncaster or Wakefield, where they can recharge fully.

Going south, somewhere beyond Bristol you'd need to use trimode capability - until they electrify an island centred on Exeter.

 

[stevieinselby]

Well, the way I see it is that Bromsgrove to Proof House junction takes 30 minutes. That should be enough time under the wires to add over 100 miles of range to a BEMU with the right specification. That'll get XC to onto the wires at Doncaster or Wakefield, where they can recharge fully.

Going south, somewhere beyond Bristol you'd need to use trimode capability - until they electrify an island centred on Exeter.

Except that some XC trains run via the Camp Hill line, which is not electrified – and they all use the also not-electrified fast lines between Kings Norton and Longbridge. So it isn't quite as simple as subtracting the time at Bromsgrove from the time at Proof House Junction and saying they are under the wires for all that time!

 

[Zomboid]

The cross city electrification was done pretty cheaply though, they didn't do the fast lines and the supply points won't be designed for providing enough power for hundreds of miles of high speed operation. That will be a lot of juice in not a lot of time on top of the proper electric operation.

IMO it'd make a lot of sense to fill the gap between Birmingham and Doncaster/ Leeds, which will obviously help the MML and some of the south Yorkshire local trains as well, and then these hypothetical XC BEMUs would arrive at Birmingham from the north fully charged for their runs to Didcot (hopefully at least Oxford) or Bristol Parkway. So long as they're dual voltage the Bournemouth route will then be fine, and then you could look at islands on the south west route after doing Bristol Parkway to Temple Meads.

 

[Mgameing123]

On GWR, there's the obvious Didcot - Oxford and Filton Bank. The Thames Valley branch lines were good candidates a decade ago, but now battery technology is good enough to make it not worth it.

Cardiff Central to Cogan/Penarth would be sensible too.

Cambridge - Newmarket would be great for commuter traffic and bi-modes could utilise it already.

Needham Market/Ipswich - Felixstowe is an important one for freight.

Given that the new platform at Darlington will split the Bishop Auckland - Saltburn service, electrifying Darlington - Bishop makes sense.

The Thames Valley Branches could still make sense. It prevents having a microfleet of battery trains.

 

[zwk500]

The Thames Valley Branches could still make sense. It prevents having a microfleet of battery trains.

A microfleet of battery trains could also be prevented by procuring a normally sized fleet of battery trains, and rotating units between duties as required. You could have a Class 7XX/1 that was an EMU with emergency traction batteries, and a 7XX/2 that was a full BEMU. And then if a 7XX/2 gets run on a 7XX/1 diagram for a day, all that's happened is a few less battery charge cycles.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Preston to Ormskirk happens to just about fit the definition.

I'd go Southport to Ormskirk via a reinstated Burscough South Curve, with ecovillage style housing development around New Lane and Bescar Lane to justify the increased service they would receive (they barely justify any service now though get approximately 0.5tph). Alternatively just to a bay at Burscough Bridge with the Preston service becoming Preston-Southport. Because the nature of the line changes substantially north of Burscough (Burscough is now just a suburb of Ormskirk, like Aughton on the other side - they are very close to joining up now) I don't see sense in sending 777s all the way to Preston, it would be a bit analogous to having the Metropolitan Line extend out to Banbury or something, the demand is much lower, the line is very rural and there is probably more of a need for toilet-fitted units.

If I was doing Merseyrail ones and new third rail was allowed, I'd do to Wigan Wallgate bay and to Helsby. Though battery units also work for this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Apr 2026 ==

I think the idea would be to separate these services. Run hourly electric Man Airport - Windermere. Not sure how long that unit could be, as it'll be a prime Man-Bolton-Preston service too.

If we're able to spend money I would add infrastructure to permit this to be an hourly Manchester Airport-Barrow and Windermere service using a pair of 4-car 331s splitting and joining at Lancaster (so wire Barrow too). I think this would in practice require P6 to be reinstated there for the Yorkshire services that normally terminate in 5 so 5 could be used for this in both directions and delays to one or other portion wouldn't delay anything else. To do hourly clockface you would also probably need an extra platform at Oxenholme so a unit can go onto the branch as one is coming off (otherwise your round trip time exceeds an hour), but that should be possible as there is land behind the present trainshed for it to be made larger (assuming it's not listed) or at least to run a track round the back on the road access and have a split single platform like Dyfi Junction there. The 8 car length would also be a good people mover for the fast Preston-Manchester role of this service.

It may be possible to do this without electrification with the new bi-mode/battery fleet though, in which case the electrification may not be good use of money.