Merseyrail 777 introduction

[TheSel]

That happens more often than it should. Possibly worse is the opposite scenario, where consistent announcements assure that a call will be made at Capenhurst, only for the train to whizz through at 70mph!

... although, to be fair, that annoucement does also say 'Please take care when stepping from the train', which seems good advice when passing through at that speed.

 

[baldyman26]

Does anyone ever report this stuff/complain to Merseyrail. It's just poor.

 

[Djgr]

That's no excuse for the PIS to be so bad. It's an accessibility thing. And comments about the rock-hard seats are not rare (though the seat shape is more of a tall person issue).



That's a contractual/employer relations/management thing, not a 777 thing. Since the controls were fitted in the late 90s it's always been possible to work 50x from the saloon. It's just not very often actually been done presumably because the staff preferred working them from the cab - that just isn't possible on a 777.

Indeed it is. But from a customer viewpoint this is a major asset of the 777.

It also means all this automatic stuff is less important because you can just speak to a real person if you have any locational concerns. Staff tend to meander amongst the doors.

Seat comfort should be seen in the context of journeys that tend to be under 30 minutes and often significantly less.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed it is. But from a customer viewpoint this is a major asset of the 777.

It also means all this automatic stuff is less important because you can just speak to a real person if you have any locational concerns. Staff tend to meander amongst the doors.

But as I said it's not a 777 thing. It's a Merseyrail policy thing.

The staff COULD, and I bet they would if they worked for WMT, just come out of the cab to dispatch and go back in again.

But they don't, as policy and Union agreement is that they are always in the passenger cabin unless they perceive a threat to their safety. This is a good thing, but it's not a 777 thing in and of itself, it could be policy with regard to any unit that has door controls in the saloon, which is most of them with doors at thirds.

Seat comfort should be seen in the context of journeys that tend to be under 30 minutes and often significantly less.

The unnatural curve of the back is something that isn't appropriate for any journey length and is a problem for taller people who (due to lack of legroom) can't slouch to mitigate it either. But as regards the hardness it's just not justified. Other trains that do short journeys don't have rock hard seats (e.g. the 195 puts a softer base on the much maligned ironing board). It's just cheap and nasty, that's all.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Apr 2026 ==

Does anyone ever report this stuff/complain to Merseyrail. It's just poor.

If you're referring to issues with the 777 rather than fail-to-call (or additional calling) at Capenhurst, many of us did when we saw how awful the mock-up was, and were roundly ignored or the issues were "fixed" in the most cheapo way possible, e.g. the protruding headrest by adding an unnatural curve to the cushion top rather than specifying an entirely different seat frame.

Talking of Capenhurst, though, if they could just sort out a more sensible "ceremony of the doors" so you're not waiting upwards of 5-10 seconds between the train stopping and getting release (as happens in no other driver-released context*) they could probably free up enough time in a Chester run for all trains to call there, removing the confusion of the only (in normal service) skip stopped station on the network, and taking into account that there's housing development around there.

* I believe this is because, unique to Merseyrail, the driver is asked to look in the DOO cameras and positively check the platform has not disappeared between driving past it a couple of seconds earlier and hitting the release button. OK, I'm being facetious, it's a check the train is platformed, but in reality a 4 car isn't going to be hanging off the back.

 

[jamesst]

That happens more often than it should. Possibly worse is the opposite scenario, where consistent announcements assure that a call will be made at Capenhurst, only for the train to whizz through at 70mph!

Thats an incorrect pis code that's been inputted, the pis is no longer linked to the headcode on the Chester line and soon won't be on any of them.

 

[baldyman26]

So does that mean it will be more reliable. Sorry I don't quite understand.

 

[jamesst]

So does that mean it will be more reliable. Sorry I don't quite understand.

So as new the pis was set up using the headcode for that particular service, for a variety of reasons its never worked very well.
The new way the pis works is via a route code which -although it will see the end of the timings on the internal route maps- should be more reliable

 

[Ellis101]

So as new the pis was set up using the headcode for that particular service, for a variety of reasons its never worked very well.
The new way the pis works is via a route code which -although it will see the end of the timings on the internal route maps- should be more reliable

Well on Thursday I saw plenty of southport services showing "Not in Service" with no PIS working so I assume its not in place on them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Apr 2026 ==

Matchday services skipping Cressington again. What a surprise!

Liverpool South Parkway is the natural park & ride station but it's served by 4 car trains. There must be a solution to the Cressington issues. Merseyrail have had too long to come up with a solution.

 

[M28361M]

The new way the pis works is via a route code which -although it will see the end of the timings on the internal route maps- should be more reliable

So basically going back to the way it worked on the PIS on the 507/508 fleet? Sometimes a tried and tested solution is the best one.

Liverpool South Parkway is the natural park & ride station but it's served by 4 car trains. There must be a solution to the Cressington issues. Merseyrail have had too long to come up with a solution.

There were additional match day services yesterday giving a 15 minute frequency from Hunts Cross to Sandhills before the match and in the other direction after match. The extra trains were 8 car but as usual did not stop at Cressington which was only served by the regularly-timetabled 4-car services.

On previous event days Cressington has been skipped entirely with a replacement bus service running, allowing 100% 8-car operation. However the local councillor kicked up a fuss so this idea seems to have been dropped. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g03lnzrj5o

More than 500 people have signed a petition to keep Cressington station open, after it shut on 6 and 20 December last year, both busy days on which Everton played at home.

Liberal Democrat councillor for Grassendale and Cressington, Richard Clein said: "They say they did inform people, but they certainly didn't inform me and residents didn't seem to know much about it. "

Merseyrail said there were no plans to permanently close the station but during major events, like match days, services are busy and sometimes timetables are altered.

 

[childwallblues]

Well on Thursday I saw plenty of southport services showing "Not in Service" with no PIS working so I assume its not in place on them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Apr 2026 ==

Matchday services skipping Cressington again. What a surprise!

Liverpool South Parkway is the natural park & ride station but it's sTerved by 4 car trains. There must be a solution to the Cressington issues. Merseyrail have had too long to come up with a solution.

The solution to Cressington is to demolish the offending low height road bridge which rus over the platforms.
Oops sorry the bridge was built by the Cheshire Line Railway over a century ago.
As there are very few 8 car trains on Hunts Cross to Ormskirk trains what is the problems?
Some people make mountains out of molehills.

 

[urbophile]

The solution to Cressington is to demolish the offending low height road bridge which rus over the platforms.
Oops sorry the bridge was built by the Cheshire Line Railway over a century ago.
As there are very few 8 car trains on Hunts Cross to Ormskirk trains what is the problems?
Some people make mountains out of molehills.

It's not the bridge that would have to be demolished, but the brick-walled cutting beyond it, in front of which the narrow platform extensions were built some years ago (at electrification of the line I assume). It is in a conservation area so you'd probably not get permission to demolish it anyway. CLC or no CLC.
There are few 8-cars on the Ormskirk line at present, but Cressington and Hunts Cross use to be served by Southport line trains which often are. There are promises to return to that service (and the 15 minute off peak frequency) but it keeps getting delayed.
A mountain out of molehill perhaps but not if you live in Cressington and resent having an inferior service.

 

[childwallblues]

I do not live in Cressigton but lived for a time in Aigburth and these days use South Parkway on a regular basis. If you think that a 30 minute service is poor perhaps you should feel sorry for the Merseytravel customers at Whiston, Rainhill and St Helens Junction which have far larger catchment areas than Cressington but have to make do with one train an hour off peak into Liverpool which has come all stations from Manchester Airport and is full and standing by the time it arrives.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The fix for this is clearly to get the ASDO working as was intended. What is needed to achieve this?

 

[Djgr]

It's not the bridge that would have to be demolished, but the brick-walled cutting beyond it, in front of which the narrow platform extensions were built some years ago (at electrification of the line I assume). It is in a conservation area so you'd probably not get permission to demolish it anyway. CLC or no CLC.
There are few 8-cars on the Ormskirk line at present, but Cressington and Hunts Cross use to be served by Southport line trains which often are. There are promises to return to that service (and the 15 minute off peak frequency) but it keeps getting delayed.
A mountain out of molehill perhaps but not if you live in Cressington and resent having an inferior service.

Merseyrail have often "sacrificed" the odd station for the greater good. For a long time it was Green Lane. Indeed, I am old enough to remember when James Street was shut in the evenings!

 

[urbophile]

I do not live in Cressigton but lived for a time in Aigburth and these days use South Parkway on a regular basis. If you think that a 30 minute service is poor perhaps you should feel sorry for the Merseytravel customers at Whiston, Rainhill and St Helens Junction which have far larger catchment areas than Cressington but have to make do with one train an hour off peak into Liverpool which has come all stations from Manchester Airport and is full and standing by the time it arrives.

Yes but the fact that Northern provide an inferior service doesn't excuse Merseyrail for this. They clearly knew that something had to be done about door opening at Cressington years before the new trains actually arrived. What else could be to blame besides incompetence?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes but the fact that Northern provide an inferior service doesn't excuse Merseyrail for this. They clearly knew that something had to be done about door opening at Cressington years before the new trains actually arrived. What else could be to blame besides incompetence?

They did, didn't they? The trains are fitted with ASDO, but it isn't in use for whatever reason. (Remind me someone, what is the reason again and is there a plan to resolve it?)

 

[urbophile]

Merseyrail have often "sacrificed" the odd station for the greater good. For a long time it was Green Lane. Indeed, I am old enough to remember when James Street was shut in the evenings!

Cressington is not an 'odd' station. It, and most of its passengers, are completely normal!

 

[Wavertreelad]

They did, didn't they? The trains are fitted with ASDO, but it isn't in use for whatever reason. (Remind me someone, what is the reason again and is there a plan to resolve it?)

Yes as I understand it the trains were delivered with ASDO but it was switched off as Network Rail needed to install the trackside equipment at the affected stations, that I believe has been completed, allbeit delayed. There are 53 units in total to operate all lines which I believe requires 50/51 units in service if 8-car sets on deployed on peak services etc. One unit 004 I think had been out of action for sometime and only returned to service last month so one of the problems for Merseyrail has been ensuring that there are sufficient units available for daily operations. The availabiltiy issue is vital because to test the ASDO and train staff Merseyrail need to use 8-car units which obviously then have to be squeezed into the timetable and operated without fair paying passengers for obvious safety reasons. If you then add in the problem of a shortage of drivers and a limited budget it's perhaps easy to see why the easy solution is to take the measures so far deployed on the network.

 

[karlbbb]

The solution to Cressington is to demolish the offending low height road bridge which rus over the platforms.
Oops sorry the bridge was built by the Cheshire Line Railway over a century ago.
As there are very few 8 car trains on Hunts Cross to Ormskirk trains what is the problems?
Some people make mountains out of molehills.

The bigger issue is the fact that Ormskirk-Hunts Cross working was supposed to be a "temporary" timetable while drivers trained on SDO, before reverting to normal Southport-Hunts Cross working with 8-cars. On top of this, there are not enough units to bolster a few peak Ormskirk services like used to happen in the 507/508 era.

The "temporary" arrangement has been in place for so long that is now nothing but an embarrassment for Merseyrail - either their training is beyond inadequate that 18+ months isn't enough time to train drivers to use an automated process, or they've quietly decided that this is the new normal and haven't bothered to communicate this to passengers.

 

[Cowley]

There’s a new thread below to discuss possible future improvements if people could that for speculation please.

How could Merseyrail improve post-777 introduction?

mods note - split from this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/merseyrail-777-discussion.287845/ The embarrassment isn't Merseyrail's though, although publicly it's clear they have to take the heat away from the high ups . The Mayor (City Region) bought trains that he knew wouldn't...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[M28361M]

I note that the morning 8-car test run from Kirkdale to Liverpool South Parkway actually ran today, formed of 007 and 010.

Realtime Trains | 5T80 1023 Kirkdale C.S. to Liverpool South Parkway | 28/04/2026

Real-time train running information for 5T80 1023 departure from Kirkdale C.S. to Liverpool South Parkway on 28/04/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Unfortunately the network has been severely disrupted throughout the afternoon and evening due to infrastructure issues in the underground, so no chance of any of the other test paths operating today.

 

[Sam 76]

Has anyone seen 004 out and about? Was reported that it has been rebuilt but yet to see if so was wondering

 

[Ellis101]

I note that the morning 8-car test run from Kirkdale to Liverpool South Parkway actually ran today, formed of 007 and 010.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:s86049/2026-04-28/detailed#allox_id=0

Unfortunately the network has been severely disrupted throughout the afternoon and evening due to infrastructure issues in the underground, so no chance of any of the other test paths operating today.

What I don't understand is why are the testing runs planned for when its a 15 minute service and is the "temporary" 30 minute service on the Hunts Cross branch not to include time for testing?

 

[jamesst]

What I don't understand is why are the testing runs planned for when its a 15 minute service and is the "temporary" 30 minute service on the Hunts Cross branch not to include time for testing?

Nope the 30min evening timetable is purely because the 15min Southports now turn at Liverpool Central.

 

[Sam 76]

Nope the 30min evening timetable is purely because the 15min Southports now turn at Liverpool Central.

It amazes me that in the evening they don’t do one of two things for the branch.

1. Decouple 8 car units and make them 4 after the evening peak. Then when Ormskirk goes to 30 mins have Southport services run through to Hunts Cross at the 15 min frequency.

2. Alternate so 2x Southport and 2x Ormskirk services run in the evening through.

I can imagine it must be a nightmare logistically and that’s why it’s not been done but a shame none the less

 

[vjm1975]

Chester trains still announcing as calling at Capenhurst when they don’t, with the guard having to do a manual announcement to say otherwise.

Notice that the times were still present on the calling displays so assume the software not been updated yet on that particular unit.

 

[Ellis101]

It amazes me that in the evening they don’t do one of two things for the branch.

1. Decouple 8 car units and make them 4 after the evening peak. Then when Ormskirk goes to 30 mins have Southport services run through to Hunts Cross at the 15 min frequency.

2. Alternate so 2x Southport and 2x Ormskirk services run in the evening through.

I can imagine it must be a nightmare logistically and that’s why it’s not been done but a shame none the less

Albeit the outrage from locals would be quite severe and understandable. A 30 minute service during evenings at Cressington would be much preferable, however you couldn't trust Merseyrail promising something to be “Temporary”.

Businesses on places like Lark Lane are suffering because of the current “temporary timetable” and this shows when you look at passenger statistics for St Michaels:

2023/24	1.116 million
2024/25	1.015 million

BBC Radio Weekend was even included in this year!

The majority of the hunts cross branch has seen a decrease in passenger numbers since the temporary timetables introduction and I will not be surprised if passenger numbers continue to decrease.

(Shorter Trains and Reduced Frequencies)

 

[KevinTurvey]

Re Hunts Cross off peak services @ 30 minute intervals could they not run in between services turning back at Sandhills or Aintree thus returning services to 15 minutes. Just a thought.

 

[Polarbear]

Has anyone seen 004 out and about? Was reported that it has been rebuilt but yet to see if so was wondering

It's not showing as diagrammed on RTT & that's been the case for a few days. I think there was some mention that it was being worked on to get it back into service - not sure if it has actually been back out yet.

 

[nw-sparks]

It's not showing as diagrammed on RTT & that's been the case for a few days. I think there was some mention that it was being worked on to get it back into service - not sure if it has actually been back out yet.

Can I ask a question of the experts on here? Has 004 ever worked in passenger service? Did it manage to come out before it became the Christmas tree?