Major disruption through Retford (16/04/2026) and residual effects over following days

[Horizon22]

The one thing from my point of view going northbound is wondering why the LNER unit stranded at York couldn't have just reversed to go back to Edinburgh. I'm sure there are good reasons, but even the LNER staff said they thought this should be the sensible thing to do

Crew due to finish in London? Companies have an obligation to get staff back to their home depots. As well as of course passengers to destinations (or hotels)!

Of course if there were other Scottish crew also stuck at York they could have done a swap. But again this all comes down to control capacity and whilst this seems like a simple decision, the resource managers are probably dealing with 15 similar situations around the network at the same time.

 

[D1511]

Just looking at how long some trains were sitting there 1S28 appears to have been stationary for 458 minutes........on an Azuma seat. Poor sods.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

Sometimes they cannot be removed because of where they have position themselves. And then if you approach, they jump and that’s going to be a whole lot worse…

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Apr 2026 ==



Sometimes there’s no information to share. Sometimes there’s no update, especially if emergency services have taken primacy of the scene.

It is also much easier to send a delay notification via Darwin with a few clicks that it might be to speak to a guard via phone (with poor signal), who then has to tell the driver if there are also 8 other actions to do

A lot of it comes down to workload; to shift from very little to multiple phone calls and actions simply cannot be done in a timely manner for all stakeholders (passengers, train crew, stations, managers, updating systems). Ideally you’d double the amount of staff in control rooms, but frankly 95% of the time they wouldn’t be needed. This is a conundrum that rears its head every few months or so and has no easy solution.

I’d also say that this was probably the night shift team too, which will probably have some element of reduced staffing.

I think part of the problem is No information = staying silent. We are in an era where information can be relayed rather quickly. From digital train radios capable of group calling and sending PAs direct to trains, Apps for both staff and pax and whatnot.
I know here in Metro the social media desk is in the same room as Metrol. They're responsible for sending out the info to X and the MetroNotify app.

It wouldn't help the UK railways are rather disjointed. Having a separate infrastructure operator and multiple train operators all with thier own ideas on how to do things.

 

[ModernRailways]

It wouldn't help the UK railways are rather disjointed. Having a separate infrastructure operator and multiple train operators all with thier own ideas on how to do things.

With LNER and Network Rail they’re typically all sat near each other in York ROC so this doesn’t fit - they also have a BTP desk if I recall my last visit correctly.

 

[leonie13]

Including the gridlocking of Newcastle station by abandoning trains in the platforms there rather than getting someone to at least move them to Heaton.

Why does this happen? Are the drivers who brought the train into the platform not obligated to move them off the running line and onto a depot? Or are their diagrams/parameters mean that if they are scheduled to get off the train at Newcastle, they'll do just that?

 

[D1537]

What are the directives on opening doors at stations that trains aren't meant to stop? There was a social media post from someone who was travelling from Newcastle to Nottingham via Grantham. They say that their train ended up at Retford but the doors were not opened despite a request so that they (and others) could get a train to Sheffield, instead it sat there for half an hour and then headed back to Doncaster, taking so long to do so that the last train from there to Sheffield that provided a connection to Nottingham (or indeed anywhere) had left.

 

[ainsworth74]

Why does this happen? Are the drivers who brought the train into the platform not obligated to move them off the running line and onto a depot? Or are their diagrams/parameters mean that if they are scheduled to get off the train at Newcastle, they'll do just that?

Certainly on this occasion I wouldn't be surprised if the driver bringing the train in is hours late from their booked finish time. I'm not sure you could persuade me to wait for the train to be cleared of passengers and then drive it to Heaton when my booking off point is Newcastle station! Particularly if it's now 5am and I was expecting to book off at midnight or 1am...

 

[ModernRailways]

Certainly on this occasion I wouldn't be surprised if the driver bringing the train in is hours late from their booked finish time. I'm not sure you could persuade me to wait for the train to be cleared of passengers and then drive it to Heaton when my booking off point is Newcastle station! Particularly if it's now 5am and I was expecting to book off at midnight or 1am...

There’s also hidden and driver hours. If they’re already 3 hours late the chances are they’re over 6 hours into driving time and so can’t take the train forward anyway.

 

[alm37]

The truth of the matter is a lot of rail staff aren’t enthusiasts and know what they’re training teaches them and that’s it. I have colleagues who use Trainline to see their trains, and find platforms. An enthusiast tends to have a better understanding and can use a few different ways to get a better picture, similar to how the control room will. Unfortunately, control rooms (at least for my TOC) have a handful of people on so when we get major disruption you can’t get through to them, and you have to check industry systems and hope that the messages they put out are good enough and frequent enough. My TOC is pretty poor at providing additional internal information, thankfully on routes that tend to receive the worst disruption it is shared with other TOCs who are very good and as we can see the information they put out it lets us get a better understanding - the majority of my colleagues will not check the other TOCs Arrakis page so won’t see the additional info that our own TOC doesn’t publish. I would also put a part of this down to being a bit more tech savvy.
Ultimately, staff on the frontlines can be fantastic but if the people sat in the office with a better overview are putting out poor/no information then they’re stuck in a horrid position.

Whilst I think my TOC is very poor with disruption messaging, they are very good with service recovery and management, we also have fairly good diversionary knowledge in my patch. A lot of people will moan that during disruption we are quick to cancel trains, but ultimately cancelling trains and moving people onto services that will move via a diversion is significantly better than having people sat on trains not moving and with little knowledge of what will happen next. Yes, you may be delayed by the diversion, but you’re not going to get to an area of disruption away from a station and be sat there for 3 hours. I appreciate LNER is a bit more advanced than we are, using electricity, but they were diverting some trains via Lincoln so getting as many passengers onto these services would have surely made more sense?

Continuing to send trains full of passengers into the affected area is a very strange decision. I’m not aware of the track layout but once it was realised this was a significant issue, trains already past Peterboro shouldn’t have gone past Grantham or Newark, with trains either tipping out in platforms, or turning around and going back to London where there are a good number of hotels and staff.

I believe the first train held up by the incident was the 1803 from KGX to Skipton, which was stopped south of Retford around 1950. By then 10 other trains had already headed up the ECML. Don’t forget there was also a broken down train around Stevenage, and the emphasis early evening was on getting through that affected area. Quite possibly there was very little info flow from the Retford incident because of the delicacy of the “negotiation” with the person by the line. So all 10 trains which followed the 1803 were north of Peterborough before there was any real sense of a major problem. Very quickly the platforms at Newark and Grantham filled, leaving very little scope to shift other stuck trains and detrain passengers. My sense is that they juggled what they could to enable trains with diesel capability eg the LNER to Middlesbrough and the Hull Trains to reach Newark and then divert via Lincoln. But the fundamental issue is electric trains on an electrified track with little manoeuvrability. Happens time and again on the ECML.

I was at Grantham from 0215 to 0330 awaiting one stranded passenger, and witnessed one train terminated there and sent back south. Others did the same from Newark I believe. Those detrained all eventually departed on Ubers and the like, having made their own onward arrangements. A staff member I spoke to at Grantham gave me the information she had and was helpful and smiling despite working well after her shift should have ended. But the information available to the train manager on the LNER I went to collect from was clearly very much lacking, and the passengers on that train very much in the dark.

 

[55002]

I’m not entirely sure what information people were expecting, there was a suicidal male being dealt with by the police Negotiators. There would be nothing to tell network rail and LNER until the police declared the incident over. It was one of those how longs a piece of string situations. The main issues are the lack of bi mode units and crew knowledge over the joint, plus when delays extend so far into the evening the lack of station staff to deal with thousands of stranded passengers at the very end of the day. People shouting for taxis and buses, where exactly are you expecting to source them from for probably 10,000 people

 

[Horizon22]

What are the directives on opening doors at stations that trains aren't meant to stop? There was a social media post from someone who was travelling from Newcastle to Nottingham via Grantham. They say that their train ended up at Retford but the doors were not opened despite a request so that they (and others) could get a train to Sheffield, instead it sat there for half an hour and then headed back to Doncaster, taking so long to do so that the last train from there to Sheffield that provided a connection to Nottingham (or indeed anywhere) had left.

Normally the driver / guard calls the signaller / control to ask to open the doors. The driver and guard combined I’m pretty sure have the authority to do this without authorisation if it is safe to do so as well (e.g. fully berthed).

Sometimes it may require overriding the TMS on board on newer rolling stock because it is not shown as a booked stop.

 

[Rach227]

I was on the 1940 from King Cross that had the medical incidents (there were three total in the end) The train manager was an absolute legend. Hats off to him, he deserved a medal. Got water handed out, kept us updated despite everything else he was dealing with.

The medical incidents all happened almost simultaneously. A doctor was onboard to help and we went back to Peterborough. On the way back we then started moving north to change track to go back south again which was amusing. One person was taken by paramedics for further care.

We got transferred to another train at Peterborough and diverted through Lincoln with our train manager with us every step of the way. He tried to get us to have a stop at Lincoln, but couldn't because the platform was full.

We got to Leeds at 2am and he got us all taxis to our onwards destinations. Honestly fab job in a very tricky set of situations

 

[Horizon22]

The main issues are the lack of bi mode units and crew knowledge over the joint, plus when delays extend so far into the evening the lack of station staff to deal with thousands of stranded passengers at the very end of the day. People shouting for taxis and buses, where exactly are you expecting to source them from for probably 10,000 people

This is a major problem. I’ve been in situations where despite the best will in the world and calling around, there is no alternative travel available (e.g. replacement buses and taxis) at certain times of day, certain days and at certain geographic locations. Coaches will sometimes just not be able to be resourced if replacement operators can’t find drivers.

Normally station staff will exhaust the taxi rank people with people stuck at stations, let alone those on board trains. Sometimes word gets out locally that there’s issue and more taxis come, but that’s still only moving 5-6 people at once when there might be hundreds or even thousands of people who need to be moved.

Then you’re in the realm of hotel bookings but that isn’t quick or ideal either.

I think you’d have a mix of opinions if you told people to either a) wait on this train for 6 hours but you’ll get to your destination or b) wait a bit whilst we book a hotel but you’ll need to travel back home tomorrow anyway.

 

[ModernRailways]

Quite possibly there was very little info flow from the Retford incident because of the delicacy of the “negotiation” with the person by the line.

I’m not entirely sure what information people were expecting, there was a suicidal male being dealt with by the police Negotiators. There would be nothing to tell network rail and LNER until the police declared the incident over. It was one of those how longs a piece of string situations. The main issues are the lack of bi mode units and crew knowledge over the joint, plus when delays extend so far into the evening the lack of station staff to deal with thousands of stranded passengers at the very end of the day. People shouting for taxis and buses, where exactly are you expecting to source them from for probably 10,000 people

Control rooms receive a great deal of information from the police, a lot of it goes unpublished for obvious reasons but the information they receive should be enough to determine next steps and start putting things into place quickly, much like a fatality. I would argue that because this wasn’t a fatality it made the situation more complex as the length of time trains were held is more how long is a piece of string. There was a standoff last year at Sheffield that I got caught up in and lasted around 4 hours, this had a major impact on services but service recovery seemed to be fairly rapid and staff were quick to direct people to trams and buses to Meadow hall as trains were being turned there, this all kicked into place within around 30 minutes of the incident beginning.

When you have so many trains between stations with a police situation where they had to call in negotiators you have to wonder at what point do you get trains into platforms and detrain or send them to a major city that can better handle the number of people impacted. Stations like Newark, Grantham, Retford only have 2 or 3 staff members on duty, and in some cases they may even be lone working. It is my belief that trains should have been turned around much quicker and not left stranded between stations, in some cases, for hours - we have seen how that can cause further major issues with passengers self-evacuating.

 

[Horizon22]

Control rooms receive a great deal of information from the police, a lot of it goes unpublished for obvious reasons but the information they receive should be enough to determine next steps and start putting things into place quickly, much like a fatality. I would argue that because this wasn’t a fatality it made the situation more complex as the length of time trains were held is more how long is a piece of string. There was a standoff last year at Sheffield that I got caught up in and lasted around 4 hours, this had a major impact on services but service recovery seemed to be fairly rapid and staff were quick to direct people to trams and buses to Meadow hall as trains were being turned there, this all kicked into place within around 30 minutes of the incident beginning.

When you have so many trains between stations with a police situation where they had to call in negotiators you have to wonder at what point do you get trains into platforms and detrain or send them to a major city that can better handle the number of people impacted. Stations like Newark, Grantham, Retford only have 2 or 3 staff members on duty, and in some cases they may even be lone working. It is my belief that trains should have been turned around much quicker and not left stranded between stations, in some cases, for hours - we have seen how that can cause further major issues with passengers self-evacuating.

I guess one of the issues in this case was the time of day and so many train crew were due to finish in the direction were going, also with the lack of available transport onwards long distance.

But yes, trains certainly shouldn’t have been held outside stations for such a long time and should absolutely have been held on platforms, further south.

 

[WelshBluebird]

From all accounts the issue started fairly early evening though. Yes I doubt anyone at that point knew that it was going to extend as long as it did, but should there not be procedures in place just incase? E.g. we've started to get major disruption at 8pm, what do we do if that carries on later into the night? This isnt exactly something that started at 10pm or whatever.

 

[enginedin]

Normally station staff will exhaust the taxi rank people with people stuck at stations, let alone those on board trains. Sometimes word gets out locally that there’s issue and more taxis come, but that’s still only moving 5-6 people at once when there might be hundreds or even thousands of people who need to be moved.

I was pretty impressed at how quickly (relatively, given the time of day) the Newcastle station staff were getting taxis, although admittedly there were only about 40 of us because we were the people who'd come on various other routes rather than being stuck on a LNER service, and they were actively prioritising those with small children and some elderly passengers

I was at York to just miss the last northbound service that had got through, which was pretty bad luck! Admittedly I sat in the waiting room for a while so I don't know how long it took for staff to become visible, but by about 10:30 there were a few around giving advice, including one not in any kind of uniform (just jeans and a jumper), maybe a manager who'd been called in to help?

When I got to Newcastle I was almost tempted to ask LNER if they'd pay / reimburse a hotel and just come back north this morning - but decided it was easier to just go with the flow.

What are the directives on opening doors at stations that trains aren't meant to stop? There was a social media post from someone who was travelling from Newcastle to Nottingham via Grantham. They say that their train ended up at Retford but the doors were not opened despite a request so that they (and others) could get a train to Sheffield, instead it sat there for half an hour and then headed back to Doncaster, taking so long to do so that the last train from there to Sheffield that provided a connection to Nottingham (or indeed anywhere) had left.

that sounds like the same train that's already been discussed earlier in the thread (https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...fects-over-following-days.301187/post-7754338)

 

[D1537]

that sounds like the same train that's already been discussed earlier in the thread (https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...fects-over-following-days.301187/post-7754338)

Yes, it does, although it's not the same person as the social media post as this person was travelling from Newcastle, not Scotland.

 

[DarloRich]

I was on the 1940 from King Cross that had the medical incidents (there were three total in the end) The train manager was an absolute legend. Hats off to him, he deserved a medal. Got water handed out, kept us updated despite everything else he was dealing with.

The medical incidents all happened almost simultaneously. A doctor was onboard to help and we went back to Peterborough. On the way back we then started moving north to change track to go back south again which was amusing. One person was taken by paramedics for further care.

We got transferred to another train at Peterborough and diverted through Lincoln with our train manager with us every step of the way. He tried to get us to have a stop at Lincoln, but couldn't because the platform was full.

We got to Leeds at 2am and he got us all taxis to our onwards destinations. Honestly fab job in a very tricky set of situations

if you haven't already get in touch with the train company and tell them this. He deserves the praise and reward.

 

[H F Stephens]

I’m not entirely sure what information people were expecting, there was a suicidal male being dealt with by the police Negotiators. There would be nothing to tell network rail and LNER until the police declared the incident over. It was one of those how longs a piece of string situations. The main issues are the lack of bi mode units and crew knowledge over the joint, plus when delays extend so far into the evening the lack of station staff to deal with thousands of stranded passengers at the very end of the day. People shouting for taxis and buses, where exactly are you expecting to source them from for probably 10,000 people

I can tell where my Mother/Father/Significant Other is via our smartphone location services.

I can tell where my suitcase is in an airport via my iPhone and an AirTag.

When LNER's latest update is telling passengers that their 233 metre long, 420 tonne piece of machinery, which should have been in London twenty minutes previously, is 'departing Edinburgh ten minutes late' but is actually in Newcastle and isn't going any further, I think we can say that even at the most basic level, information communication and quality is crassly poor.

The ripple effect from that will be waste, inconvenience and discomfort at the very least.

It shouldn't take 'enthusiasts' to work out what's going on.

And, I'd posit, bimodes and diversions are largely irrelevant to the very significant number of passengers travelling over both shorter and some longer distances whose journeys do not reach the point of disruption.

When the timetable is built around the dominance of high-frequency, through, long distance services at the expense of much else, the contagion caused by any localised disruption will by default spread far and wide quickly.

When the service between Edinburgh and Doncaster last, which in many cases is 'forced' to provide the local intermediate service because there's 'no room' for locals and regionals, because of an incident at Retford, simply makes 'the railway' look arrogant at best, and incompetent at worst.

Individual reports also show, as I said earlier, that a great number of staff must have worked themselves to the absolute bone last night - but it's embarrassing that 'the railway' seems to believe that that's enough contingency, while continuously putting the service under ever greater stress.

 

[ainsworth74]

Individual reports also show, as I said earlier, that a great number of staff worked themselves to the bone last night - but it's embarrassing that 'the railway' seems to believe that that's enough contingency, while continuously putting the service under ever greater stress.

Does the railway believe that? Or do those that hold the purse strings and specify what the railway should be doing that believe that?

It is after all to a great extent the DfT and HMT that decide how many trains can be ordered, how many staff can be recruited, what pieces of infrastructure can be built, etc etc...

Not to say that better outcomes might be possible within existing funding envelopes and resource allocations(!) but it isn't just "the railway" which gets to decide how much contingency to have.

 

[185143]

Why does this happen? Are the drivers who brought the train into the platform not obligated to move them off the running line and onto a depot? Or are their diagrams/parameters mean that if they are scheduled to get off the train at Newcastle, they'll do just that?

Not necessarily. At my TOC it's very common to have drivers work a train in and be relieved by (usually) a night man to take the train onto the depot. Indeed, drivers based elsewhere don't usually sign "our" depot.

A neighbouring TOC tends to do the opposite though, the driver who brings the train in takes it to the depot. Last time I was on nights, one of those trains came in significantly delayed and the driver refused to take it to the depot as they were well over their day already. No doubt exactly that scenario happened multiple times at Newcastle this morning/last night.

And quite frankly I wouldn't blame a driver in the slightest who has worked the train all the way to Newcastle, been sat in the seat for many hours longer than they ever should have, unexpectedly finding themselves working a night shift refusing point blank to do the extra move. And that's if they even physically can do it with Hidden regulations.

Particularly if they've been frustrated by lack of information etc.

 

[43094]

In this case, ECS moves to Heaton tend to be worked by a driver who has previously worked a Class 1 (often, but not always, the same class 1 as the associated ECS).

In the event of the class 1 running very late, it isn't surprising that the driver concerned may 'run out of hours', and so not be able to take the ECS.

The same is also true for some, but not all, other depots in this instance.

 

[thruud]

The knock on impact continues today. My wife was on the 1330 to Edinburgh from KGX. She arrived to find it was cancelled, and is now on the slow train at 1303, which has got 1230 and 1330 cancelled train passengers on. Its standing room only, there is no catering or water and none of the toilets on the entire train work - and she's travelling on a First class ticket. Its an utterly miserable passenger experience.

 

[Tetchytyke]

And quite frankly I wouldn't blame a driver in the slightest who has worked the train all the way to Newcastle, been sat in the seat for many hours longer than they ever should have, unexpectedly finding themselves working a night shift refusing point blank to do the extra move. And that's if they even physically can do it with Hidden regulations

I don’t blame the drivers either. I blame the management. It is a recurring issue at Newcastle, the fairly restrictive layout not helping matters.

 

[D1537]

The knock on impact continues today. My wife was on the 1330 to Edinburgh from KGX. She arrived to find it was cancelled, and is now on the slow train at 1303, which has got 1230 and 1330 cancelled train passengers on. Its standing room only, there is no catering or water and none of the toilets on the entire train work - and she's travelling on a First class ticket. Its an utterly miserable passenger experience.

First class is declassified on that train so she will be able to claim a refund.

Although, if none of the toilets on the train actually work, it should be taken out of service at the first opportunity (or should make toilet stops).

 

[43094]

I'm not in a position to assist with the 1330 toilets myself today, but if none on the entire train work, that needs reporting to on-train crew ASAP (if it hasn't been already?), so they can call it in and Hitachi get someone to it / give LNER Control chance to see if it can be swapped out....

 

[ainsworth74]

The knock on impact continues today. My wife was on the 1330 to Edinburgh from KGX. She arrived to find it was cancelled, and is now on the slow train at 1303, which has got 1230 and 1330 cancelled train passengers on. Its standing room only, there is no catering or water and none of the toilets on the entire train work - and she's travelling on a First class ticket. Its an utterly miserable passenger experience.

Yes I believe the fasts have been cancelled all day (or most of it) to free up units and crews to work the rest of the services. Extensions beyond Leeds have been similarly knocked on the head. I believe the unit working the 1303 hasn't seen a depot since the night of 15/16 April as it arrived into Newcastle at 0521 this morning (instead of Edinburgh last night 2237 booked) and left as 3Y07 to Berwick at 0605 and then worked the 0605 from Berwick to London Kings Cross arriving 62 minutes late at 1102. It then appears to have gone to Ferme Park before turning around and going back to Kings Cross at 1210 to form the 1303. There simply hasn't been time to empty the toilet tanks sadly! Though I'd have hoped they might have had time to fill the water tanks during the break at Ferme Park.

 

[D1537]

I'm not in a position to assist with the 1330 toilets myself today, but if none on the entire train work, that needs reporting to on-train crew ASAP (if it hasn't been already?), so they can call it in and Hitachi get someone to it / give LNER Control chance to see if it can be swapped out....

(deleted - was a copy of what ainsworth74 just said about 801202 not having been serviced last night).

At least two other units were turned straight round at Newcastle this morning, as well.

801108 did 1Y06 then 1N05 and is now on 1Y16 with no chance for watering
801203 did 1Y04 then 1D10 to Leeds and is now heading back to KX on 1A22 (it would have had just over an hour at Leeds, though)

 

[43094]

It wouldn't surprise me, either. It won't have had time to be tanked at Ferme Park, in that time.

To avoid doubt, I meant 1303 above, not 1330 (fat fingers)