Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[swr444]

Yes. New diagram looks to be:

As above it's not one from the LTP or recent CWN notices. Appears to be two 450 ones stitched together that leaves the diagram above over to run as 701.

So 4 450s have been released by this one then?

 

[Stephen42]

So 4 450s have been released by this one then?

It releases 2, used to be 4 450s and is now 2 450s and 1 701/0. Comparing with the LTP it appears a straight swap after 2G30/2M30, each new diagram has half of the two previous diagrams. The swap is required as otherwise the stock workings wouldn't balance.

 

[Siemens Staines]

It releases 2, used to be 4 450s and is now 2 450s and 1 701/0. Comparing with the LTP it appears a straight swap after 2G30/2M30, each new diagram has half of the two previous diagrams. The swap is required as otherwise the stock workings wouldn't balance.

Interestingly, if today is a reliable guide, it does not look like the released pair of 450s by this change have been used to strengthen any main line services or to replace 458s. The pair of 450s that used to stable on Wimbledon Park between the peaks was two different pairs today. The pair that start off on 2G10 0604 Guildford to London Waterloo have not come off Wimbledon Park this evening whilst the pair that did come out for 2F91 1702 London Waterloo to Guildford did not work this morning. Of course this could be due to any number of reasons that may be specific to today only.

 

[TEW]

That makes sense. There are 120 450 diagrams and 4 of those are booked stabled at depots; 1 at Fratton and 3 at Wimbledon Park.

 

[Covshire1]

Of note, 701032 was allocated to today's 5Q52 1814 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Clapham Yard Sidings but it looks like it didn't run.

 

[WWTownEnth]

Of note, 701032 was allocated to today's 5Q52 1814 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Clapham Yard Sidings but it looks like it didn't run.

Of note, 701032 was allocated to today's 5Q52 1814 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Clapham Yard Sidings but it looks like it didn't run.

Would that indicate that it may be about to enter passenger service?

 

[Covshire1]

Would that indicate that it may be about to enter passenger service?

They usually move to Clapham, sit there a week or two, do a couple of 5Q run outs, and then come into passenger service a week or so after. This one though came in from Bournemouth by itself at the start of the month so may be more advanced commissioning wise.

 

[swr444]

701520 is out on 5Q10/11 right now

 

[mansonlo49]

Realtime Trains | 5Q30 1237 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 14/04/2026

Real-time train running information for 5Q30 1237 departure from Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 14/04/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q30 have something operated but didn’t label, anyone know thanks

 

[WWTownEnth]

When does the training of current drivers for 701s wind down? I recall somewhere that all current drivers will be trained by the end of May. Is that still correct? And once training of all current drivers is complete, will the four units being used for that training be able to go straight into passenger service?

 

[Farnborough]

701520 is out on 5Q10/11 right now

Woo-hoo... now we can restart speculation as to which diagrams the 701/5s will operate, especially bearing in mind all of the remaining 458/4 diagrams are 8-car...

 

[WWTownEnth]

Woo-hoo... now we can restart speculation as to which diagrams the 701/5s will operate, especially bearing in mind all of the remaining 458/4 diagrams are 8-car...

I thought it was conventional wisdom that no five cars would enter passenger service until all 60 ten cars had done so.

 

[Snow1964]

I thought it was conventional wisdom that no five cars would enter passenger service until all 60 ten cars had done so.

As others have previously said, likely to be an overlap near end of 10car units entering service.

In practical terms probably easier to commission a 5car unit that works, than a 10car unit that is struggling to pass its fault free, so bound to be some units that need fixes that delay them a bit, and others end up ready first even if they started further behind in the queue.

 

[wickham]

It is my betting that the first 701/5s will enter service as 10 car trains, but we will see !! After all, is there any use for 5 car trains at present ?

 

[Peter Sarf]

It is my betting that the first 701/5s will enter service as 10 car trains, but we will see !! After all, is there any use for 5 car trains at present ?

Using pairs of 701/5s as permanent 10car would be an easy way to introduce them perhaps. Certainly at first.

Then when enough 10car 701s of either 701/0 or 2x701/5 are in service it begins to be necessary to utilise the 701/5s 5car capability. It is after all why the 701/5s were ordered - for routes/platforms/sidings where 10car 701s cannot be used.

But, I agree, it seems reasonable to expect some 701/5s to be easier to get into service than the last of the 701/0s given their prolonged storage. We have fourteen 701/0s left to see service - I feel some of them will be really hard to get un-stored !.

 

[norbitonflyer]

It is my betting that the first 701/5s will enter service as 10 car trains, but we will see !! After all, is there any use for 5 car trains at present ?

Not at present, but there will be when fewer 4-car sets are available. The bay platform at Kingston cannot take more than eight cars. At Easter, with maintenance work at Putney causing Windsor and Reading trains to be diverted via Kingston, the rounders were just running between Barnes and Kingston, so they were operated by 458/4s so they could use the bay. I assume when the 458/4s are gone the 701/5s would be used in similar circumstances. (although of cousre 2x450 would fit)

 

[swr444]

Not at present, but there will be when fewer 4-car sets are available. The bay platform at Kingston cannot take more than eight cars. At Easter, with maintenance work at Putney causing Windsor and Reading trains to be diverted via Kingston, the rounders were just running between Barnes and Kingston, so they were operated by 458/4s so they could use the bay. I assume when the 458/4s are gone the 701/5s would be used in similar circumstances. (although of cousre 2x450 would fit)

Same is needed at Clandon for turnarounds due to engineering works. Also for shunting/turnback at Hounslow

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Woo-hoo... now we can restart speculation as to which diagrams the 701/5s will operate, especially bearing in mind all of the remaining 458/4 diagrams are 8-car...

I thought it was conventional wisdom that no five cars would enter passenger service until all 60 ten cars had done so.

701520 is out on 5Q10/11 right now

701/5s have been running around in a small way for several months now, the use of 701 520 yesterday is, I am afraid, unlikely to indicate any advancement of the plans.

 

[Goldfish62]

But, I agree, it seems reasonable to expect some 701/5s to be easier to get into service than the last of the 701/0s given their prolonged storage. We have fourteen 701/0s left to see service - I feel some of them will be really hard to get un-stored !.

Looking at the list there's seven being prepared for service and just three left in store. I can't see SWR simply giving up on any of the seven that are already on the network. There's plenty now in service that were previously in lengthy storage. I travelled on 701001 a couple of days after it had entered service. It looked and smelt brand new, despite having been built in 2020!

 

[NSEWonderer]

No one has even begun training on 701/5s. Very early days and unlikely to even see ot just yet out in passenger service for a bit. Several things need to happen which haven't yet.

Sure the possibility of a maiden voyage for a single day or so to introduce them before then hiding the units till everything is properly in place is never off the cards.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Apr 2026 ==

Looking at the list there's seven being prepared for service and just three left in store. I can't see SWR simply giving up on any of the seven that are already on the network. There's plenty now in service that were previously in lengthy storage. I travelled on 701001 a couple of days after it had entered service. It looked and smelt brand new, despite having been built in 2020!

Being the first train it would usually quite often be the last to have major modifications and interior fittings done as it was the prototype bed for the class.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Woo-hoo... now we can restart speculation as to which diagrams the 701/5s will operate, especially bearing in mind all of the remaining 458/4 diagrams are 8-car...

The remaining 458s are mostly used on the Windsor lines. This is not because of the need for shorter trains. Indeed these trains are crying out for more capacity. We need 10 car trains so the only way I would like to see the 458/4s replaced is with pairs of 701/5s

 

[Peter Sarf]

No one has even begun training on 701/5s. Very early days and unlikely to even see ot just yet out in passenger service for a bit. Several things need to happen which haven't yet.

Sure the possibility of a maiden voyage for a single day or so to introduce them before then hiding the units till everything is properly in place is never off the cards.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Apr 2026 ==


Being the first train it would usually quite often be the last to have major modifications and interior fittings done as it was the prototype bed for the class.

If the 701/5s were kept permanently coupled in pairs would that remove the need for any 701/5 training ?.
That would be a temporary thing obviously until splitting and joining became unavoidable some time later.

 

[NSEWonderer]

If the 701/5s were kept permanently coupled in pairs would that remove the need for any 701/5 training ?.
That would be a temporary thing obviously until splitting and joining became unavoidable some time later.

No because 701/5s are still with quite a few important differences and training must always be done to the point that the person operating or in charge of the vehicle is fully aware or trained on all its nuances.

It will be a conversion course of no more than a day or two usually. The majority of stuff needed carries over from 701/0s but there's as mentioned above few important differences just to be known incase they are where issues pop up.

 

[Peter Sarf]

No because 701/5s are still with quite a few important differences and training must always be done to the point that the person operating or in charge of the vehicle is fully aware or trained on all its nuances.

It will be a conversion course of no more than a day or two usually. The majority of stuff needed carries over from 701/0s but there's as mentioned above few important differences just to be known incase they are where issues pop up.

Ah, so more than just coupling/uncoupling then.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

If the 701/5s were kept permanently coupled in pairs would that remove the need for any 701/5 training ?.
That would be a temporary thing obviously until splitting and joining became unavoidable some time later.

A major factor will still be a shortage of overnight stabling capacity, particularly in Wimbledon depot Top yard, for fixed 10 car trains v number of starts each morning from there that are required to be 10 car, in theory. The latter (based on the old everything 8 car becomes 10 car) theory, will not work at that location, so there has to be a rethink, in that (perhaps?) some of the earlier departures run as 5 car and combine to become 10 car on the respective first arrivals at Waterloo.
Either that or rules may need to be changed (?) to allow separate 5 cars to depart Wimbledon top yard (using old 8 car sidings) and run to eg; Hampton Court, to attach there to form a 10 car service.

Either way the overall plan becomes more complicated and thus less robust than when everything was formed of uniform 8 cars.

 

[Goldfish62]

Being the first train it would usually quite often be the last to have major modifications and interior fittings done as it was the prototype bed for the class.

I thought 002 was that unit. It was the first unit delivered to SWR, in June 2020, and arrived without seats and other fittings.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Apr 2026 ==

Either way the overall plan becomes more complicated and thus less robust than when everything was formed of uniform 8 cars.

Although you have to go back 12 years for when everything on the mainline suburban and Windsor lines was last 8 cars.

 

[NSEWonderer]

I thought 002 was that unit. It was the first unit delivered to SWR, in June 2020, and arrived without seats and other fittings.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Apr 2026 ==


Although you have to go back 12 years for when everything on the mainline suburban and Windsor lines was 8 cars.

002 could have also been in the same position sure but 001 being the arrive test bed at the time aswell as 003 would have meant they didnt start final fittings and modifications till near last.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Apr 2026 ==

Ah, so more than just coupling/uncoupling then.

Indeed. I always liken unit variants like the 701s to the 737 max scenario. Its a similar plane to that of which pilots have already trained on(that was the point to save airlines money by making an efficient updated version of a plane they already use with no considered important changes) but to avoid them having to do a conversion course, Boeing didn't mention the mcas system existed which was an important change. Whilst a train won't fall out the sky because the pilots weren't trained on the existence of said system or how to turn it off, we can still run into issues in trains where not for example not knowing that the 701/5s have an extra compressor and what comes with that may and will cause issues during circumstances.

 

[Farnborough]

If the 701/5s were kept permanently coupled in pairs ...

... then it defeats the point of them being 5-car

And 2x5-car has lower capacity than 1x10-car!

 

[WWTownEnth]

Any news on additional 701 diagrams for next week?

 

[Peter Sarf]

A major factor will still be a shortage of overnight stabling capacity, particularly in Wimbledon depot Top yard, for fixed 10 car trains v number of starts each morning from there that are required to be 10 car, in theory. The latter (based on the old everything 8 car becomes 10 car) theory, will not work at that location, so there has to be a rethink, in that (perhaps?) some of the earlier departures run as 5 car and combine to become 10 car on the respective first arrivals at Waterloo.
Either that or rules may need to be changed (?) to allow separate 5 cars to depart Wimbledon top yard (using old 8 car sidings) and run to eg; Hampton Court, to attach there to form a 10 car service.

Either way the overall plan becomes more complicated and thus less robust than when everything was formed of uniform 8 cars.

Yes eventually - roughly when all 701/0s are in service then the 701/5s will have to split/join.

I thought 002 was that unit. It was the first unit delivered to SWR, in June 2020, and arrived without seats and other fittings.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Apr 2026 ==


Although you have to go back 12 years for when everything on the mainline suburban and Windsor lines was last 8 cars.

Yes I wonder about 701003 as that is still at Derby.

002 could have also been in the same position sure but 001 being the arrive test bed at the time aswell as 003 would have meant they didnt start final fittings and modifications till near last.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Apr 2026 ==


Indeed. I always liken unit variants like the 701s to the 737 max scenario. Its a similar plane to that of which pilots have already trained on(that was the point to save airlines money by making an efficient updated version of a plane they already use with no considered important changes) but to avoid them having to do a conversion course, Boeing didn't mention the mcas system existed which was an important change. Whilst a train won't fall out the sky because the pilots weren't trained on the existence of said system or how to turn it off, we can still run into issues in trains where not for example not knowing that the 701/5s have an extra compressor and what comes with that may and will cause issues during circumstances.

Ah an extra compressor would make fault finding a difference compared to 701/0s thus dictating a bit more training.

... then it defeats the point of them being 5-car

And 2x5-car has lower capacity than 1x10-car!

I was thinking only keep 701/5s permanently coupled until all 701/0s came into service. Obviously then the original reason for 5car 701s becomes unavoidable.

Anyway, turns out there is still other training that needs to happen.