Which UK bus operators, in your own opinion, have the most poorly presented fleet of vehicles?

[nonabrow]

Poor presentation is a label which may be given to an operator's fleet for a variety of reasons, perhaps due to filthy, dysfunctional or just mechanically unsound conditions. On the more aesthetic side of things, buses may be poorly presented and might still retain the livery of a previous operator, or lack a livery altogether. Another common offense is broken blinds which warrant a tatty paper blind.

I'll start with what I believe to be the worst offender in most of these categories. Cawthorne's Travel of Rotherham operate a fleet of scruffy, aging vehicles for their public bus services, with every single one of them either remaining in the previous operator's livery, or at least containing notable remnants of it. On top of this, they are, more often than not, sporting paper blinds. I can't possibly comment on the functionality of the buses themselves as I am not from the area and have never had any direct experience with this company, but they do certainly strike me as having a very.. primitive approach to bus travel.

What other companies are guilty of similar tendencies?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Arriva pretty much everywhere in all its forms, be that buses or trains. Just lackadaisical from start to finish. Arriva Milton Keynes is particularly bad, with loose and dented panels and rattles and bangs the norm even with what is now a newish fleet.

Not as bad as what you describe, which was the norm on contracted services operated in Milton Keynes by the Aylesbury mob (Red Group and Z&S) when those still existed. But certainly the worst of the big groups.

 

[scottishtrains]

i feel like stagecoach should be a top mention here...

 

[Simon75]

Arriva pretty much everywhere in all its forms, be that buses or trains. Just lackadaisical from start to finish. Arriva Milton Keynes is particularly bad, with loose and dented panels and rattles and bangs the norm even with what is now a newish fleet.

Not as bad as what you describe, which was the norm on contracted services operated in Milton Keynes by the Aylesbury mob (Red Group and Z&S) when those still existed. But certainly the worst of the big groups.

I travelled recently on a Arriva 09 plate double decker in Milton Keynes, very poor condition

 

[Simon75]

First Essex (Chelmsford) i feel aren't well kept, recentlyi was on one (ex Sheffield bus), was very scruffy

 

[Cesarcollie]

i feel like stagecoach should be a top mention here...

Really?

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Sanders Coaches of Norfolk used to operate some very scruffy and poor vehicles until relatively recently, when most of their older vehicles got replaced by a large order of brand new ones. They are now a very smart and well-regarded operator in my opinion.

i feel like stagecoach should be a top mention here...

Would strongly disagree with this. Whilst Stagecoach do have their problems, I really don't think vehicle presentation is one of them. From a passenger perspective, I find them by far the best of the "big three" (alongside Arriva and First) in both vehicle presentation and service quality.

 

[stadler]

Big Lemon is a strong contender. Some of the stuff they put on rail replacement in the Sussex area is in awful condition. Their buses can appear quite poor condition internally and externally. Half their fleet is just left in the previous operators liveries. A lot of their buses seem to have mechanical issues. I have been on some of their buses that had thick black fumes coming out and vehicles that could barely make it up a hill. Their depot looks more like a scrapyard and has more broken buses than working buses.

 

[Zamracene749]

Where I live, Arriva. Did you know that there are at least 4 different shades of Aquamarine? If not, come catch an ArrivaNE bus out of Durham. Of course, by the time it turns up, if it turns up at all, you'll no longer care about the presentation, you will be so relieved that you'll still get on it, even if Keanu Reeves or Robbie Coltrane is driving

 

[py_megapixel]

Would strongly disagree with this. Whilst Stagecoach do have their problems, I really don't think vehicle presentation is one of them. From a passenger perspective, I find them by far the best of the "big three" (alongside Arriva and First) in both vehicle presentation and service quality.

I think it really depends on which regional division of Stagecoach. It's been a while since I was a regular user of them in Sheffield but they were very poor, with buses cancelled all over the place, sometimes even on routes that only run hourly. Most of the vehicles themselves were fine although the interior decor did feel very dated. Some were absolutely filthy though and you could barely see out of the windows.

Also the onboard stop display/announcement system hardly ever worked - in about a year of Stagecoach buses being my regular commute, I think I had about 2 buses in total where it worked properly (as well as a particularly memorable trip where the bus erroneously thought it was in Hull!). I understand they now have been kicked into improving this by legislation though.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I can't believe that Stagecoach get a mention - I mean, it is not what it was but really? As for Arriva... again, I can't really agree with the categorisation that it's all bad. Milton Keynes is one of the worst (as is Harlow) and certainly the Arriva North East fleet has its challenges. However, Merseyside, Yorkshire and the Northumbria business aren't in the category of "really bad".

That's the thing - the big groups are going to have some variation in standards even with a national livery. Compare Brighton & Hove, Metrobus and Go South Coast ops with Go South West (not brilliant) and then what they were serving up with Go East Anglia before selling it!

My local firm is First West of England and yesterday, I could travel around Bath with vehicles in WestBus green, the former Bath City blue livery, and variations of urban including the Glasgow one and two examples with different coloured fronts from their time in Bristol. That's just the regular liveries.

We can also enjoy three variations of the former Bristol P&R livery, Bristol unibus, blue based liveries from South Wales (Cymru Clipper and the Swansea Campus liveries) and Kernow plus the former Mendip Explorer blue and gold, red Cymru livery, Kernow green, all over jade (from Bristol but via Cornwall), Essex green, Air Decker - 19 different liveries. It's the same across Bristol and some of the fleet looks filthy.

Interestingly, I was in Norwich last week and they have been busy painting the Doncaster liveried ex Cornwall B9s into Ultra Violet and they looked smart.

 

[Ballyheigue]

When they did operate public services, A&A Travel in West Yorkshire was a serious contender, the buses they ran on the 30, if it ran, were in poor condition, one bus even had a hole in it's roof.

 

[sk688]

Arriva Hemel turn out absolute heaps

 

[nonabrow]

When they did operate public services, A&A Travel in West Yorkshire was a serious contender, the buses they ran on the 30, if it ran, were in poor condition, one bus even had a hole in it's roof.

I only learned about this company recently and it seemed like they were pretty similar to cawthornes with regards to their many flaws. The hole in the roof is news to me though, I'll have to try and find it on flickr haha

Edit: just been looking at photos and dear God... they had to have been the worst. Just look at this Plaxton President... (not my photo; credit to Daniel Stazicker)

 

[Kaliwax]

Globe Travel Yorkshire, for a modern fleet their buses do look terrible, bent panels, destination blinds not working so putting a sticker in the window, with various buses, scruffy drivers.

Tates Travel wasn't much better either

 

[JonathanH]

I compare the drab dark blue seating in Arriva's regional fleet to their buses in London and think to myself who within their business really thinks that the adoption of that seating for the regional fleet is more inviting to potential passengers than their moquette pattern.

 

[Bedford OB]

Go Ahead's vehicles from River Road are frequently in disgraceful condition, particularly the new Routemasters on the likes of EL1-3. Cleaning standards at that garage are atrocious but the hapless TfL does absolutely nothing to enforce its much vaunted standards.

 

[JD2168]

I’ll nominate TM Travel - buses in previous livery, on a normal day I can see:
Mango
Lothian
Kinchbus
Skyline
London Red in various fading shades
TM Red
The dark black/orange livery

 

[SCH117X]

If you are going on vehciles still being in a previous livery that will ecncompass many operators; its how well they are presented that is the issue.

 

[mattb7tl]

It is difficult to generalise, because poor presentation can stem from two quite different causes, the complexity of the livery itself, or simply a lack of care in maintaining it.

Stagecoach is a good example of the former with the two previous schemes which are relatively complex designs, and that complexity makes keeping them looking smart a genuine challenge. Arriva sits at the opposite end of the spectrum as their current scheme is about as simple as a livery gets, yet presentation across the fleet is still patchy at best (though improving).

 

[Metal Mickey]

Most First operations with the exception of Leicester and Portsmouth/Hampshire as they are carrying attractive local liveries.

 

[py_megapixel]

It is difficult to generalise, because poor presentation can stem from two quite different causes, the complexity of the livery itself, or simply a lack of care in maintaining it.

Stagecoach is a good example of the former with the two previous schemes which are relatively complex designs, and that complexity makes keeping them looking smart a genuine challenge. Arriva sits at the opposite end of the spectrum as their current scheme is about as simple as a livery gets, yet presentation across the fleet is still patchy at best (though improving).

You are right but I think it's a bit narrow to consider only the livery and not other aspects of the bus' presentation.

A bus might be fresh out of the paint shop but if you can't read the destination blind properly, the floor and seats haven't been cleaned for weeks and half the lights don't work, it will still give a very poor impression.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Most First operations with the exception of Leicester and Portsmouth/Hampshire as they are carrying attractive local liveries.

That's not true. Vehicles in local liveries can be terribly presented by First... Here's First West of England (with appropriate photo credits)


Photo - Neil Jennings

Photo - John Morris



Photo - Karl please view photostream

Photo - Peter

 

[Belfastmarty]

A (dis)honourable mention goes to Translink for general disfunction around livery and presentation. Until recently we had 4 separate styles of Goldline livery, although this has thankfully finally been standardised, but Ulsterbus now has 3 separate liveries namely 2 tone blue with stripes, allover blue and blue/grey. Thats before you look at 'depot specials' such as Solar 555 which was allover blue, but recently received a blue/grey repaint on the bottom half only. Couple this with base colours which fade horribly in the case of Metro magenta and Foyle 'tomato soup' and a somewhat esoteric approach to repainting eg Streetdeck 5000 has recently received it's 3rd complete repaint since 2019, whereas some of the 2014 B5s are yet to receive a complete repaint at all. Every new batch of buses seems to have a different combination of stickers and logos and the most recent liveries are needlessly complicated with logos on easily damaged locations. Aligned with the seeming inability to replace missing trim and cleaning standards which vary wildly between individual depots, the overall impression just isn't good.

 

[DunsBus]

If we can include historic groups, then British Bus would have to be in with a shout. Its speedy implosion and the subsequent incarceration of its chief executive for bribery has been well-documented elsewhere on these forums, but during the time that it and its previous incarnation as Drawlane were with us, I can't recall a Drawlane/BB vehicle ever looking smart. Or if they were smart, they weren't that way for long. This was especially true with Edinburgh Transport, a small operation which BB had inherited with Stevenson's, whose smart blue and orange fleet gave way to one in a multitude of liveries.
For a group which at one time was the largest in the UK, it definitely paid lip service towards fleet presentation.

 

[Phatcontroller]

If we can include historic groups, then British Bus would have to be in with a shout. Its speedy implosion and the subsequent incarceration of its chief executive for bribery has been well-documented elsewhere on these forums, but during the time that it and its previous incarnation as Drawlane were with us, I can't recall a Drawlane/BB vehicle ever looking smart. Or if they were smart, they weren't that way for long. This was especially true with Edinburgh Transport, a small operation which BB had inherited with Stevenson's, whose smart blue and orange fleet gave way to one in a multitude of liveries.
For a group which at one time was the largest in the UK, it definitely paid lip service towards fleet presentation.

There certainly were some scruffy BB vehicles but they did invest at Midland Fox and Maidstone and District. In particular the retro M&D cream and dark green livery looked great. I wish Arriva would bring it back.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If we can include historic groups, then British Bus would have to be in with a shout. Its speedy implosion and the subsequent incarceration of its chief executive for bribery has been well-documented elsewhere on these forums, but during the time that it and its previous incarnation as Drawlane were with us, I can't recall a Drawlane/BB vehicle ever looking smart. Or if they were smart, they weren't that way for long. This was especially true with Edinburgh Transport, a small operation which BB had inherited with Stevenson's, whose smart blue and orange fleet gave way to one in a multitude of liveries.
For a group which at one time was the largest in the UK, it definitely paid lip service towards fleet presentation.

Again, we have to be very careful about tarring all opcos of a group with the same brush. There were some terrible ones and some that weren't too bad, and you have to look at various points in the evolution.

The later purchases were generally already good businesses. Maidstone and District was a very good firm and arguably, the Ray Stenning designed livery c.1996 was one of the best of that era. Northumbria was a good firm purchased by British Bus, and whilst the internal spec was eventually pared back, the external livery and presentation was retained as was the blue moquette. Of the Drawlane era, even London & Country was actually reasonably decent, though helped by regular new fleet for LRT services.

The ones that were truly bad... Midland Red North was very uneven, and not helped when they readopted the Midland deep red scheme that faded very badly. They had a mixed bag of vehicles and whilst some depots were good, Macc and Crewe always had an eclectic mix of vehicles in different colour schemes and mismatched seat squabs.

The North Western empire was fairly awful - the "original" 1986 livery/image was ok initially (depending on your taste). However, you had endless slicing and dicing of fleet, the purchase of Bee Line, Liverline and StarLine, plus the creation of C-Line and Leigh Line, the simplification of the livery, elderly fleet continuously shifted around - it was a right mess.

 

[satters]

there are a few companies around the WMPTE area that don't seem to know that buses need washing

 

[DunsBus]

Again, we have to be very careful about tarring all opcos of a group with the same brush. There were some terrible ones and some that weren't too bad, and you have to look at various points in the evolution.

The later purchases were generally already good businesses. Maidstone and District was a very good firm and arguably, the Ray Stenning designed livery c.1996 was one of the best of that era. Northumbria was a good firm purchased by British Bus, and whilst the internal spec was eventually pared back, the external livery and presentation was retained as was the blue moquette. Of the Drawlane era, even London & Country was actually reasonably decent, though helped by regular new fleet for LRT services.

The ones that were truly bad... Midland Red North was very uneven, and not helped when they readopted the Midland deep red scheme that faded very badly. They had a mixed bag of vehicles and whilst some depots were good, Macc and Crewe always had an eclectic mix of vehicles in different colour schemes and mismatched seat squabs.

The North Western empire was fairly awful - the "original" 1986 livery/image was ok initially (depending on your taste). However, you had endless slicing and dicing of fleet, the purchase of Bee Line, Liverline and StarLine, plus the creation of C-Line and Leigh Line, the simplification of the livery, elderly fleet continuously shifted around - it was a right mess.

I'll concur. The North West and Midland fleets were awful image-wise once the slicing and dicing started. With Edinburgh Transport being an outpost of Stevenson's it's easy to see why it ended up as it did. And yes, the Northumbria and Maidstone & District purchases were good ones and gave British Bus a reminder that presentation was key. Who knows what might have happened post-1996 had circumstances been different.

 

[mangad]

The North Western empire was fairly awful - the "original" 1986 livery/image was ok initially (depending on your taste). However, you had endless slicing and dicing of fleet, the purchase of Bee Line, Liverline and StarLine, plus the creation of C-Line and Leigh Line, the simplification of the livery, elderly fleet continuously shifted around - it was a right mess.

A quick search of flickr for 'Bee Line Buzz Company' speaks volumes. But things started going downhill at Bee Line when they were still in the Minibus era. The buses looked pretty good, then they started taking advertisements (which covered up all their branding!). And then we had the joy of the ancient deckers, pressed into the service with a quick yellow Bee Line sticker, and - if you were lucky - a panel of yellow below the windscreen. Even when they were fully painted, the bright yellow rarely looked good on those knackered vehicles.