TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains

[35B]

Stadler apparently just plug in a computer and reset the software to clear the faults. They are under no obligation to do anything I believe, and everything is paid for on an additional fee. Fitters cannot touch them.

That will be because that’s the level of support that’s been purchased.

Amey don’t really have the capacity or capital to match the network rail system, and most of the work seemed to be tendered out to local trades at the lowest price.

Nor would they without TfW paying more. The quality of what’s been purchased will be closely linked to what’s been paid.

There’s no deal as expensive as a cheap one

 

[Dai Corner]

That will be because that’s the level of support that’s been purchased.

Nor would they without TfW paying more. The quality of what’s been purchased will be closely linked to what’s been paid.

There’s no deal as expensive as a cheap one

Classic bidders' strategy for public sector contracts. Bid low and make your profits on the contract changes / extras.

 

[35B]

Classic bidders' strategy for public sector contracts. Bid low and make your profits on the contract changes / extras.

It may be, but you need to ask why it’s a winning strategy!

 

[enapace]

Hopefully once new government is in place a proper examination is done and these trains can be sorted out or a solution can be found as the improvements to the line for the valleys has been very noticeable have a few friends who use regularly.

 

[norbitonflyer]

It may be, but you need to ask why it’s a winning strategy!

Because of the revolving door of politicians. The successor always wants to do something different. Indeed, they were elected on promises to make changes.

 

[Caaardiff]

What use are any politicians or a political party with practically zero railway experience going to bring in this scenario?

A few social media posts promoting how they're pushing TFW to fix things, while having no clue what those things are. Means nothing.

Its exactly the same with Cardiff Airport. The WG aren't running it, they just own it. They would have no idea how to run it.

 

[Dai Corner]

What use are any politicians or a political party with practically zero railway experience going to bring in this scenario?

A few social media posts promoting how they're pushing TFW to fix things, while having no clue what those things are. Means nothing.

Its exactly the same with Cardiff Airport. The WG aren't running it, they just own it. They would have no idea how to run it.

What use are the politicians? They decide how much taxpayers money to spend on the railway. A purely commercial one would probably just consist of the SWML and trains between Swansea, Cardiff, Newport, Bristol and London.

 

[norbitonflyer]

What use are any politicians or a political party with practically zero railway experience going to bring in this scenario?

A few social media posts promoting how they're pushing TFW to fix things, while having no clue what those things are. Means nothing.

Its exactly the same with Cardiff Airport. The WG aren't running it, they just own it. They would have no idea how to run it.

None, but railways and their funding are a political football. Look at the multiple rescopings of HS2, to the point that it will now no longer fulfil its original raison d'etre of relieving the WCML

 

[Mole88]

Company council have signed off the training package for drivers, despite there being loads of concerns. They didn’t even communicate this with other reps apparently until it was late in the day. Now the DI’s are in despair and pushing back on the content due to issues.
They’ve been thrown under the bus, and it will now be the DI’s who will be responsible for marking off each trainee on the traction regardless, no management involvement.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Apr 2026 ==


They were looking for a coupler to attach to the 15x to assist them, the tractor unit on Taffs well is just for shunning them around.

I’m glad I’ve retired, it’s not going to be the same anymore.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Apr 2026 ==


Stadler apparently just plug in a computer and reset the software to clear the faults. They are under no obligation to do anything I believe, and everything is paid for on an additional fee. Fitters cannot touch them.

Keolis left during covid, they wanted to have a Manchester metrolink of South Wales.

Amey don’t really have the capacity or capital to match the network rail system, and most of the work seemed to be tendered out to local trades at the lowest price.

So if Keolis have buggered off and WG own it but don't run it, are Amey now running the network? What is their actual Involvement and what part(s) have they played in the situation that we find ourselves in today?

 

[Caaardiff]

So if Keolis have buggered off and WG own it but don't run it, are Amey now running the network? What is their actual Involvement and what part(s) have they played in the situation that we find ourselves in today?

They are effectively the Network Rail of the Valleys. They manage the infrastructure.

 

[VR494]

They are effectively the Network Rail of the Valleys. They manage the infrastructure.

Before I left, the CVL was in a rapid state of decline, the OLE may have been new, but everything else was in good need of a repair or replacement. You could easily be up to your knees in weeds in some areas as well. They were looking to try and obtain a track renewals contract with DB at one point. Some TSRs had been in place for a few years as well in a few locations, and are still there now speaking to past colleagues, plus more, it’s a mess.

Anyway, the 398 test runs should hopefully be back out sometime this week, if things go to plan. What they are going to do about the electrical supply constraints I don’t know, they ideally need a retrofit with a power unit to run off the wire like the flirts. It’s mad to think they could have had this, but chose not to specify it!

Taffs Well depot though, is lovely and has great quality facilities for staff.

I’m not entirely sure though current train drivers will be happy when they see they have to prepare a unit, checking its indicators and brake lights!

 

[6opher]

I’m not entirely sure though current train drivers will be happy when they see they have to prepare a unit, checking its indicators and brake lights!

Was no preps involved according to you the other week (I knew you were wrong at the time… along with many other things you say but you just won’t stop posting stuff).
I don’t think a driver will care less about what needs to be checked on a prep. Not exactly much hassle is it and not as if lights haven’t had to be checked previously.

 

[VR494]

Was no preps involved according to you the other week (I knew you were wrong at the time… along with many other things you say but you just won’t stop posting stuff).
I don’t think a driver will care less about what needs to be checked on a prep. Not exactly much hassle is it and not as if lights haven’t had to be checked previously.

A train doesn’t have indicators or brake lights. I suspect you are a Taffs Well link 1 driver, who’s now avoiding the units having passed them onto the junior drivers in link 2?

Your DTM maybe be sitting a transport manager CPC the way things are going too.

DI’s don’t care either, as long as they’re guaranteed the overtime pay. They’ll do whatever they want to get off trains.

You’ve all been lied to, by your reps and the company. These are trams that will eventually erode your terms and conditions. If they ever get them out.

You will be receiving training on prep of the unit, however Taffs Well will not be doing any preparation work, only Treherbert drivers. This will be above sole-bar only. You may be needing to cross cover. Honestly I hope you are right and do keep your 756 competency. However, could you drive them on a reduced license with no crossings and no absolute block signalling on your routes, probably yes. Once line of sight is in your competency, you’ll see other areas gain tram signals. Slowly the AWS will be stripped out and you’ll be in tram mode limited to below 40mph.

Nothing I’ve posted is untrue. I’m no longer in the industry anymore, and is all based on facts, experience etc. However opinions may vary depending on the company you decide to keep I guess. Or what you choose to believe. Don’t be afraid to ask questions on your training, especially around the tram element. You need clarity and it’s not being given.

The 398’s are in a serious mess, and we both know that is true!

I hear the wires were the main issue of the thermal incident from a reliable internal source, which has also been found on a number of other units now. Good luck with them!

 

[iamraymond]

"Based on facts" = load of old toot

 

[6opher]

A train doesn’t have indicators or brake lights. I suspect you are a Taffs Well link 1 driver, who’s now avoiding the units having passed them onto the junior drivers in link 2?

Your DTM maybe be sitting a transport manager CPC the way things are going too.

DI’s don’t care either, as long as they’re guaranteed the overtime pay. They’ll do whatever they want to get off trains.

You’ve all been lied to, by your reps and the company. These are trams that will eventually erode your terms and conditions. If they ever get them out.

You will be receiving training on prep of the unit, however Taffs Well will not be doing any preparation work, only Treherbert drivers. This will be above sole-bar only. You may be needing to cross cover. Honestly I hope you are right and do keep your 756 competency. However, could you drive them on a reduced license with no crossings and no absolute block signalling on your routes, probably yes. Once line of sight is in your competency, you’ll see other areas gain tram signals. Slowly the AWS will be stripped out and you’ll be in tram mode limited to below 40mph.

Nothing I’ve posted is untrue. I’m no longer in the industry anymore, and is all based on facts, experience etc. However opinions may vary depending on the company you decide to keep I guess. Or what you choose to believe. Don’t be afraid to ask questions on your training, especially around the tram element. You need clarity and it’s not being given.

The 398’s are in a serious mess, and we both know that is true!

I hear the wires were the main issue of the thermal incident from a reliable internal source, which has also been found on a number of other units now. Good luck with them!

You can suspect whatever you want. When did I say a train had indicators or train lights? I said lights get checked so it would hardly be a hassle checking other types of lights (whatever they are).

I can guarantee there is plenty that you have said is untrue. You aren’t the only one who knows people. I can assure you the ones I know will know what they are talking about and they have confirmed to me that you have said plenty of nonsense.
A tram-train is also not a “tram”. That’s just a fact otherwise it would just be labelled a tram (don’t explain them to me, I know what they are) but anyway I will leave you to it now. Don’t bother replying to me as I can’t be bothered with you. Just wanted others to know you do chat plenty of rubbish.

Enjoy your retirement. Any chance you can retire the nonsense from this site too?

 

[craigybagel]

You can suspect whatever you want. When did I say a train had indicators or train lights? I said lights get checked so it would hardly be a hassle checking other types of lights (whatever they are).

I can guarantee there is plenty that you have said is untrue. You aren’t the only one who knows people. I can assure you the ones I know will know what they are talking about and they have confirmed to me that you have said plenty of nonsense… and maybe I’ve had some training on them myself
A tram-train is also not a “tram”. That’s just a fact otherwise it would just be labelled a tram (don’t explain them to me, I know what they are) but anyway I will leave you to it now. Don’t bother replying to me as I can’t be bothered with you. Just wanted others to know you do chat plenty of rubbish.

Enjoy your retirement. Any chance you can retire the nonsense from this site too?

Just to add that I too have spoken to sources in a position to know better, as well as used the information available to me personally, to confirm that a lot of the negative stuff being posted is complete nonsense. I've done my best to just ignore it through gritted teeth but there does come a point when it needs calling out.

 

[nigelsporne]

I spent a week in South Wales last July hoping to see and photo the 398s in service. That of course didn't happen. Number 28 was the highest unit delivered I believe. I hope to repeat the visit again this year but there doesn't appear to be much hope of seeing many units. The highest number is 32 I understand. So surely somebody or some organisation should be banging some heads together to get the issues resolved pdq. The failure to get the 398s in service is stalling the cascade of the other TfW units which however you look at it is bad news for TfW.
Regarding the recovery of 398 units following failure surely there must be something in place as other areas like Manchester, Sheffield etc must have similar problems.

 

[800001]

I spent a week in South Wales last July hoping to see and photo the 398s in service. That of course didn't happen. Number 28 was the highest unit delivered I believe. I hope to repeat the visit again this year but there doesn't appear to be much hope of seeing many units. The highest number is 32 I understand. So surely somebody or some organisation should be banging some heads together to get the issues resolved pdq. The failure to get the 398s in service is stalling the cascade of the other TfW units which however you look at it is bad news for TfW.
Regarding the recovery of 398 units following failure surely there must be something in place as other areas like Manchester, Sheffield etc must have similar problems.

I wonder if TFW are covered by freedom of Information act where we could ask about about 398s progress etc

 

[35B]

I wonder if TFW are covered by freedom of Information act where we could ask about about 398s progress etc

If they are, there are exemptions around commercial confidentiality that would probably be used.

There is also a very fine line between such shields being necessary protection, and an excuse for covering up bad things - the spotlight of publicity can easily focus attention on the wrong things.

 

[Cardiff123]

Whatever the truth behind the 398s, a quick search of TfW's news archive reveals that in June 2023, the 398s were entering testing.

Brand-new tram-trains that will revolutionise public transport are now being tested on the South Wales Metro railway lines.

Transport for Wales recently electrified the first phase of the South Wales Metro and the first tram-trains are now in testing, ready for passengers in 2024.

New electric tram-trains in testing for South Wales Metro

Brand-new electric tram-trains are now being tested on the recently electrified Valleys railway lines, as TfW take another step forward with delivering the next phase of the South Wales Metro.

news.tfw.wales

Then in April 2025

Brand-new electric tram-trains are now being tested on the recently electrified Valleys railway lines, as TfW take another step forward with delivering the next phase of the South Wales Metro

New Metro tram-train in testing

Brand-new tram-trains that will revolutionise public transport are now being tested on the South Wales Metro railway lines.

news.tfw.wales

Then in February 2026

New tram-trains that will revolutionise transport in south Wales are now in their final phase of testing before being introduced into service on some of the Core Valleys Lines this spring.

New tram-trains will revolutionise transport in south Wales | GOV.WALES

New tram-trains that will revolutionise transport in south Wales are now in their final phase of testing before being introduced into service on some of the Core Valleys Lines this spring.

www.gov.wales

So by TfW's own admission, the 398s are already 2 years late, and in the absence of any real progress, the strategy of the last 3 years has been to keep re-announcing old news.

 

[tfw756rider]

Number 28 was the highest unit delivered I believe.

Not sure if that's true, may be slightly higher.

The highest number is 32 I understand.

398036

 

[800001]

Not sure if that's true, may be slightly higher.


398036

Is 36 now delivered? I think the poster was implying 32 was the highest here so far?

 

[StripeyNick]

398033 is the highest numbered one that has been delivered leaving 034, 035 & 036 to come.
398032 was delivered straight to Old Dalby and is still there as far as I'm aware. I think it's the only one there now

 

[JonnySeagull]

I took this photo of 398015 headed for Old Dalby in August last year. Already been graffitied as well...

 

[tfw756rider]

Is 36 now delivered? I think the poster was implying 32 was the highest here so far?

@nigelsporne said:

Number 28 was the highest unit delivered I believe.

and

The highest number is 32 I understand.

I took that as "398028 is the highest-numbered 398 delivered", to which I said that I wasn't sure and it may be higher (and indeed, @StripeyNick has since confirmed that 398033 is the highest-numbered 398 delivered),

and "398032 is the highest-numbered 398 overall", to which I said "it's 398036".

 

[nigelsporne]

Just to clarify my post 1367, 28 was the highest numbered unit delivered when I visited in July last year to the best of my knowledge. I thought 32 was the highest unit to have been delivered but as stated above 33 has arrived. I missed it's arrival.

 

[StripeyNick]

033 is only a relatively recent arrival......well, end of February

 

[crosscity]

I took this photo of 398015 headed for Old Dalby in August last year. Already been graffitied as well...View attachment 202350

398015 went back to Cardiff on Tue 26Jan2026.

 

[chargesmith]

Whatever the truth behind the 398s, a quick search of TfW's news archive reveals that in June 2023, the 398s were entering testing.

New electric tram-trains in testing for South Wales Metro

Brand-new electric tram-trains are now being tested on the recently electrified Valleys railway lines, as TfW take another step forward with delivering the next phase of the South Wales Metro.

news.tfw.wales

Then in April 2025

New Metro tram-train in testing

Brand-new tram-trains that will revolutionise public transport are now being tested on the South Wales Metro railway lines.

news.tfw.wales

Then in February 2026

New tram-trains will revolutionise transport in south Wales | GOV.WALES

New tram-trains that will revolutionise transport in south Wales are now in their final phase of testing before being introduced into service on some of the Core Valleys Lines this spring.

www.gov.wales

So by TfW's own admission, the 398s are already 2 years late, and in the absence of any real progress, the strategy of the last 3 years has been to keep re-announcing old news.

The delays are down to multiple reasons.

1) COVID - they lost nearly a year to that alone for various reasons including staff from Stadler not being able to travel to the UK.

2) Funding - the Welsh Government can't borrow money for the project so any spending has to come out of the yearly budget, so accelerating delivery would haven taken money away from other things like health or education

3) Rampant inflation - this has added significantly to the funding pressure in point 2.

4) Supply chain issues - according to TFW some of the electrification parts got stuck near the Suez Canal when the Ever Given got stuck and even though this was only a few weeks the whole supply chain would have been disrupted for a while afterwards.

5) Thefts - When they have been able to complete the electrification work cables have been stolen before they went live so the work had to be redone.

6) Testing issues - a standard part of bringing in a new set of trains, but certainly hasn't helped them catch up.

7) Training staff - again a standard part of the process, but if staff are sick / on holiday then it needs to be delayed as they have a railway to run first.

 

[The_Train]

Anybody know roughly when 398030 arrived onto the scene please?