Class 91 to hit Cambridge and Lincoln metals for the first time in ____ years?

[DR18037]

This just crossed my desk:

Train N48840 On Is No Longer Valid

Live Train Times for Train to departing on | Rail Record

live.rail-record.co.uk

5D00 Hitchin to Neville Hill departing tomorrow night (08/04) at 23:40

The route pencilled in is as follows: Letchworth, Royston, Cambridge, Stopping at Ely Reception, March, 'Loco swap' at Peterborough, Spalding, Lincoln, Gainsborough, Doncaster, Leeds, Neville Hill for 05:55.

This is presumably the wheel flatted Class 91 which was stranded here a few days back, but what I'm looking for is any evidence proving when the last 91 drag was via CBG or LCN. I believe it to be 01/2021 but part of me thinks it was either 2022 or 2020. This could also be the 1st 91 to ever use Ely Reception.

This post can also double up as a heads up to all those nearby that there's a late night 225 heading out for an adventure soon

 

[Magdalia]

This is presumably the wheel flatted Class 91 which was stranded here a few days back, but what I'm looking for is any evidence proving when the last 91 drag was via CBG or LCN. I believe it to be 01/2021 but part of me thinks it was either 2022 or 2020.

I think this is the last class 91 via Cambridge:

Cambridge

67015 drags 91132 on the diverted 1S17 11.21 KX - Edinburgh LNER service. All images on this site are exclusive property and may not be copied, downloaded, reproduced, transmitted, manipulated or used in any way without expressed written permission of the photographer. All rights reserved –...

www.flickr.com

67015 drags 91132 on the diverted 1S17 11.21 KX - Edinburgh LNER service.

Date is 11 January 2020.

 

[Twingo37175]

Looks like now removed (assuming RTT anything to go by and was previously on a Q path). I assume from that, it stays in place in Hitchin

 

[Supercoss]

I thought it was reported as DVT detached rather than loco ? ( wheel flat)

 

[DR18037]

Looks like now removed (assuming RTT anything to go by and was previously on a Q path). I assume from that, it stays in place in Hitchin

Now a 0Z00 Thunderbird and 5D00 have reappeared tonight same schedule I believe

I thought it was reported as DVT detached rather than loco ? ( wheel flat)

I've not heard that myself, and the Signallers have labelled the yard *91*, though I'm happy to be corrected

 

[Merle Haggard]

The RCTS web site once had a spot for East Coast drags (by Peter Hall) which would have answered your question but it seems to have disappeared with the new website. Perhaps it is still there somewhere, I had some photos on it.
The arrival of bi-mode Azumas finished off the drags, I think.
The world is becoming more boring unfortunately...

 

[sh24]

There was a service train drag via Lincoln last year, WCR Thunderbird did the honours.

 

[Twingo37175]

Looks like it is cancelled again tonight, there is a path in for what I believe would be thunderbird tomorrow morning from Newark. Nothing new though for return to Neville Hill tomorrow.

 

[Magdalia]

The RCTS web site once had a spot for East Coast drags (by Peter Hall) which would have answered your question but it seems to have disappeared with the new website. Perhaps it is still there somewhere, I had some photos on it.

Try here:

East Coast Main Line Drags – Railway Correspondence & Travel Society

features.rcts.org.uk

East Coast Main Line Drags​

Haulage Highlights - top page

Here the term 'Drags' is used to describe the use of a diesel locomotive to haul a normally electrically powered train when no electric supply is available. Such incidences are either the result of on the day problems such as locomotive failure or overhead line damage or are pre-planned due to engineering works requiring trains to be diverted, or the power supply to be switched out. It is the latter type of drags which are covered in this topic.

On various occasions since the ECML was electrified planned drags have taken place, usually involving use of a diversionary non-electrified route. The menu below lists such instances for which details are known. Further details including routings, trains involved and diesel 'drag' locomotives can be found by clicking on the menu.

It doesn't include the January 2020 workings which were just one train in reach direction.

 

[Harpo]

As far as I'm aware class 91s have never operated under their own power between Hitchin and Cambridge.

Been done with an 86/DBSO set but we had lots of power restrictions on the Royston line.

 

[William3000]

No. When the ECML electrification was planned the primary route to Cambridge was the Liverpool Street line. Class 86s did haul Liverpool Street-Cambridge/Kings Lynn trains for about 2 years 1987-89.

When first installed the Royston-Cambridge electrification had some very severe restrictions related to power availability. As far as I'm aware class 91s have never operated under their own power between Hitchin and Cambridge.

Yes I remember class 86s but I think electrification north of Cambridge didn’t take place until 1992, so I presume north of Cambridge they would have been replaced by Class 47s? There was then a period for a few years (probably around 1990-92 where only two or three carriage DMUs served Cambridge to King’s Lynn. I seem to recall there were a few years (3 years or so) around that time where Cambridge had no through trains at all.

 

[Magdalia]

Been done with an 86/DBSO set but we had lots of power restrictions on the Royston line.

London Liverpool Street to King’s Lynn was definitely an intercity route up until the late 1980s when I believe it was transferred to Network South East. I think trains stopped only at Audley End, Cambridge, Ely, Downham Market, and King’s Lynn.

Yes I remember class 86s but I think electrification north of Cambridge didn’t take place until 1992, so I presume north of Cambridge they would have been replaced by Class 47s?

Liverpool Street-Kings Lynn was NSE but Liverpool Street-Norwich was InterCity. However, in 1987 they used the same class 86s cycled to and from Willesden. Ilford got their own class 86s around the time that class 86s were taken off the Cambridge line in spring 1989. These later moved to Crown Point.

The Kings Lynn trains in NSE days were early MarkIIs refreshed and in NSE livery. Stratford also had 47576/579/581/596 in NSE livery to work the trains between Cambridge and Kings Lynn.

The DBSOs didn't arrive in Anglia until after the Liverpool Street-Kings Lynn loco hauled had finished and only worked on the Norwich line.

In the 1987-89 period Kings Lynn-Liverpool Street trains were occasionally diverted to Kings Cross. Usually when this happened class 47s were used but a few class 86s did get to Kings Cross. Here is a pic of 86248 passing through Royston (I think the date should be 27 May 1988).

86248 approaching Royston on a Kings Cross-Cambridge special. 23.05.88.

Explore freightfrog (Gordon Fuller)'s 9891 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

There was then a period for a few years (probably around 1990-92 where only two or three carriage DMUs served Cambridge to King’s Lynn. I seem to recall there were a few years (3 years or so) around that time where Cambridge had no through trains at all.

Cambridge always had through trains to/from Liverpool Street, but Ely and Kings Lynn had no through trains to/from London between May 1990 and August 1992. When their through trains restarted, most were to/from Kings Cross.

Royston-Cambridge had a 9 day closure in August 1999 and I recall that a power supply upgrade was one of the work packages. The power supply upgrade definitely happened before the introduction of 12 car trains in 2009.

 

[Harpo]

The DBSOs didn't arrive in Anglia until after the Liverpool Street-Kings Lynn loco hauled had finished and only worked on the Norwich line.

A bit of pedantry (sorry!), although 86/DBSO only worked Norwich line services, including Yarmouth with a drag plus Harwich, they did work diversions via Cambridge, mostly via Sisters or the Lea Valley, plus the one-off Norwich to KX diversion. All dragged north of Cambridge and 86 powered south of Cambridge.

As an aside, I’ve also seen (from Stortford box) class 90s on the Cambridge main line powering diverted ‘liners.

 

[William3000]

Liverpool Street-Kings Lynn was NSE but Liverpool Street-Norwich was InterCity. However, in 1987 they used the same class 86s cycled to and from Willesden. Ilford got their own class 86s around the time that class 86s were taken off the Cambridge line in spring 1989. These later moved to Crown Point.

The Kings Lynn trains in NSE days were early MarkIIs refreshed and in NSE livery. Stratford also had 47576/579/581/596 in NSE livery to work the trains between Cambridge and Kings Lynn.

The DBSOs didn't arrive in Anglia until after the Liverpool Street-Kings Lynn loco hauled had finished and only worked on the Norwich line.

In the 1987-89 period Kings Lynn-Liverpool Street trains were occasionally diverted to Kings Cross. Usually when this happened class 47s were used but a few class 86s did get to Kings Cross. Here is a pic of 86248 passing through Royston (I think the date should be 27 May 1988).

86248 approaching Royston on a Kings Cross-Cambridge special. 23.05.88.

Explore freightfrog (Gordon Fuller)'s 9891 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Cambridge always had through trains to/from Liverpool Street, but Ely and Kings Lynn had no through trains to/from London between May 1990 and August 1992. When their through trains restarted, most were to/from Kings Cross.

Royston-Cambridge had a 9 day closure in August 1999 and I recall that a power supply upgrade was one of the work packages. The power supply upgrade definitely happened before the introduction of 12 car trains in 2009.

I knew London Liverpool Street to King’s Lynn was NSE in the late 1980s - but the intercity maps of the early 80s showed London Liverpool Street to King’s Lynn on the intercity map but perhaps they were indicative at that time rather than branded because I note these maps also showed London Victoria to Dover and London Waterloo to Portsmouth as intercity and not sure whether they were.

 

[Royston Vasey]

In the 1987-89 period Kings Lynn-Liverpool Street trains were occasionally diverted to Kings Cross. Usually when this happened class 47s were used but a few class 86s did get to Kings Cross. Here is a pic of 86248 passing through Royston (I think the date should be 27 May 1988).

86248 approaching Royston on a Kings Cross-Cambridge special. 23.05.88.

Explore freightfrog (Gordon Fuller)'s 9891 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Wrong line no less. It appears to be in the process of traversing the crossover west of the station, presumably to overtake a stopping service in P2 (presumably an EMU by then but could be a 101 which lingered a little while longer serving the villages).

I can't remember dates but I recall peak hours Kings Lynns timetabled to overtake stopping services at Royston for some years, probably several major timetable recasts ago, 2000s or 2010s. I am sure you'd have a better recollection.

Full electric service through to Cambridge only commenced in early May 1988, so this was presumably some kind of commemorative special.

 

[Magdalia]

A bit of pedantry (sorry!), although 86/DBSO only worked Norwich line services, including Yarmouth with a drag plus Harwich, they did work diversions via Cambridge, mostly via Sisters or the Lea Valley, plus the one-off Norwich to KX diversion. All dragged north of Cambridge and 86 powered south of Cambridge.

Yes, some of these were in 1989, before the DBSOs arrived.

The most well known are the summer Saturday trains in 2004 when the trackbed in Ipswich Tunnel was being lowered. This is near the end of the DBSO era. Here is 47813 dragging a DBSO/Class 90 formation through Wymondham in 2004:

47813, 90010 WMD 1124 LIV-GYM 28-8-04 (1)

During the summer of 2004, Ipswich Tunnel was closed for gauge enhancement and a limited number of trains were dragged between Norwich and Cambridge. One such was the 1124 SO Liverpool Street - Yarmouth, passing Wymondham with 47813 (still in FGW livery) at the head and dead 90010 at the rear on...

www.flickr.com

And I'm in favour of pedantry in discussion like this, It is one of the ways how the historical record gets written and updated. I'm intrigued by the Norwich-Kings Cross diversion, which I don't remember, and I can't work out in what circumstances it might have happened.

As an aside, I’ve also seen (from Stortford box) class 90s on the Cambridge main line powering diverted ‘liners.

These were in January 1991, and also included some pairs of class 86/6s.

Wrong line no less. It appears to be in the process of traversing the crossover west of the station, presumably to overtake a stopping service in P2 (presumably an EMU by then but could be a 101 which lingered a little while longer serving the villages).

I can't remember dates but I recall peak hours Kings Lynns timetabled to overtake stopping services at Royston for some years, probably several major timetable recasts ago, 2000s or 2010s. I am sure you'd have a better recollection.

Full electric service through to Cambridge only commenced in early May 1988, so this was presumably some kind of commemorative special.

The reason that I think the picture is 27 May 1988 is that 86248 worked 0617 from Cambridge diverted to Kings Cross, because the OHL was down at Broxbourne, that morning. 86248 was presumably shunt released at Kings Cross and formed 0820 Kings Cross-Kings Lynn, taking up the path of the 0805 from Liverpool Street forward from Cambridge. I'd agree that it is probably an overtaking move, to get round 0805 Kings Cross-Cambridge stopper.

I don't recall any timetabled overtaking moves at Royston, but it was common during periods of late running until the Thameslink 2018 timetable came in. On the down road the Hitchin flyover made a big difference. When there was only the flat junction down stoppers were often delayed at Hitchin, then would wait at Royston to be overtaken by the following fast train.

intercity maps of the early 80s showed London Liverpool Street to King’s Lynn on the intercity map but perhaps they were indicative at that time rather than branded because I note these maps also showed London Victoria to Dover and London Waterloo to Portsmouth as intercity and not sure whether they were.

Prior to sectorisation Inter City was more widely defined. Chris Green's Inter City Story has a double page spread of the 1982 and 1993 maps to see the difference!

 

[Harpo]

I'm intrigued by the Norwich-Kings Cross diversion, which I don't remember, and I can't work out in what circumstances it might have happened.

My records are gone but it was around 1991 and a Sunday evening when there was a GE main line block. Loadings suggested there was a trains worth of London passengers at that time of day so we gave it a go to KX but, uptake was poor and it didn’t get repeated. It went back ECS and the duff waited at Cambridge for the return working.

 

[D6700]

The East Coast Class 67 Thunderbird locos visited Hitchin this morning to move the LNER set onto a wired road and are now running back to Newark via Cambridge.

The 225 set will hopefully move tonight - back to Neville Hill under its own power, so no diversions off the usual route.

 

[Magdalia]

My records are gone but it was around 1991 and a Sunday evening when there was a GE main line block. Loadings suggested there was a trains worth of London passengers at that time of day so we gave it a go to KX but, uptake was poor and it didn’t get repeated. It went back ECS and the duff waited at Cambridge for the return working.

Thanks. I've found it!

7 December 1991 engineering work at Romford. 1G06 1640 Norwich-Kings Cross returned ECS starting 2025. 86220 dragged by 47501 north of Cambridge.

 

[E27007]

The information given to me about the Thunderbird Newark to Hitchin Up Yard is:
Thursday 2nd April 2026, 91124 and set taken out of service on the diagramset commencing 1A10 due to wheelflats on the DVT, the 225 stabled not under OHL.
Friday 10th April 0Z67 Thunderbird ran Newark d0858 to Hitchin to shunt the 225 under the OHL, the Thunderbird then ran as 0Z68 Hitchin to Newark via Cambridge, arrival Newark 1559.
The 225 is to run ecs to Neville Hill under self-power for repairs

 

[D6700]

The 225 is to run ecs to Neville Hill under self-power for repairs

It already has.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:66832/2026-04-11/detailed#allox_id=1

 

[E27007]

It already has.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:66832/2026-04-11/detailed#allox_id=1

Hitchin to Neville Hill in 3hrs 45 mins, indicates the movement authorised by an examiner to run ecs with a maximum speed of 60 mph?

 

[D6700]

Hitchin to Neville Hill in 3hrs 45 mins, indicates the movement authorised by an examiner to run ecs with a maximum speed of 60 mph?

Correct, 60 mph.

 

[TransportHub]

The information given to me about the Thunderbird Newark to Hitchin Up Yard is:
Thursday 2nd April 2026, 91124 and set taken out of service on the diagramset commencing 1A10 due to wheelflats on the DVT, the 225 stabled not under OHL.
Friday 10th April 0Z67 Thunderbird ran Newark d0858 to Hitchin to shunt the 225 under the OHL, the Thunderbird then ran as 0Z68 Hitchin to Newark via Cambridge, arrival Newark 1559.
The 225 is to run ecs to Neville Hill under self-power for repairs

Does anyone know how it managed to get 'off the wires' in the first place?

 

[Twingo37175]

Does anyone know how it managed to get 'off the wires' in the first place?

I believe a thunderbird may have been involved when the incident first started.

 

[Class15]

These were in January 1991, and also included some pairs of class 86/6s.

I’m fascinated by these - are there any pictures?

 

[E27007]

Rumours are of 91124 and set held at Hitchin yard, being vandalised and defaced by grafitti, are the rumours true?

 

[XCTurbostar]

Rumours are of 91124 and set held at Hitchin yard, being vandalised and defaced by grafitti, are the rumours true?

Well considering 91110 is the only 91 at Hitchin Yard.. I'd say not!

New reports by Railcam suggest the 91 will be removed by road instead.
https://x.com/railcamlive/status/2046252137013752156

After a recent failure to @LNER
#Class91 91110 'Battle of Britain Memorial Flight', with a reported seized axel, @ColasRailUK
ECML Thunderbirds #Class67 67027 & 67023 'Stella' have today recovered MK4 set NL26 and DVT 82223 to return them to Neville Hill.

Again, reports suggest 91110 will require moving by road... time will tell.

 

[BrettSy96]

Rumours are of 91124 and set held at Hitchin yard, being vandalised and defaced by grafitti, are the rumours true?

It was moved last week I think but yes it was sadly graffitied, I saw a post yesterday of 91124 back out in service and it looked like she was graffiti free again which is good!

 

[D365]

New reports suggest the 91 will be removed by road instead.

This image which shows a glowing axle is doing the rounds on social media, the owner of which is likely to either be Network Rail or LNER but isnt attributed.

Just to be clear, is this 91110 with a seized axle and resultant wheel flat?