Avanti Settle and Carlisle diversions (allocations, diagrams & timetabling)

[dk1]

Doing well with today’s shuttles so far, hope they keep up the good work.

That’s fantastic. Just a few minutes lost here and there but more or less recovered.

 

[ChilliSauce]

Apologies if this is a silly question but what is the difference between the Avanti bi-modes and other bi-modes in the 80x series operated by GWR/LNER/TPE/HT?

I get that the Settle & Carlisle is steep and isn't exactly a gentle stroll however LNER seem to manage the Highland Mainline without sets pegging it on a regular basis.

Hands up when it comes to technical stuff like this I'm rubbish, I'm just curious

Good enquiry .. !

 

[voyagerdude220]

Doing well with today’s shuttles so far, hope they keep up the good work.

Indeed. I notice only one diagram seems to be 10 cars, so hopefully the 5 car ones aren't crowded.

 

[rmHawk765]

Apologies if this is a silly question but what is the difference between the Avanti bi-modes and other bi-modes in the 80x series operated by GWR/LNER/TPE/HT?

As I (simply) understand it, the 805 engines are of a newer model designed to produce less emissions, but consequently they are less reliable. If I remember correctly the Class 800 engines, while not unreliable, were underpowered for the West of England on diesel and eventually all of GWR's 800s had more powerful engines like the ones in the 802s fitted.

 

[ChilliSauce]

As I (simply) understand it, the 805 engines are of a newer model designed to produce less emissions, but consequently they are less reliable. If I remember correctly the Class 800 engines, while not unreliable, were underpowered for the West of England on diesel and eventually all of GWR's 800s had more powerful engines like the ones in the 802s fitted.

Sounds like the train builder, Hitachi, has a reliability responsibility to sort out with their engines in the 805s?

 

[rmHawk765]

Sounds like the train builder, Hitachi, has a reliability responsibility to sort out with their engines in the 805s?

Appears to be so. I remember that after introduction, many were running with isolated engines, and it's possible this is still the case.

 

[ChilliSauce]

Appears to be so. I remember that after introduction, many were running with isolated engines, and it's possible this is still the case.

I think in service date was like June 2024 .... So coming up to two years since and Hitachi still haven't resolved ... Not good ...

Wonder how bright the long term reliability will be for class 810 ... ?

 

[Oxalin]

Indeed. I notice only one diagram seems to be 10 cars, so hopefully the 5 car ones aren't crowded.

I was on the 5 car 10:02 Preston - Carlisle this morning, certainly in my coach and the next one there were max a dozen people per coach. I can't imagine the rest of the train was much different.

Worth noting that today at least there were bus replacements north of Carlisle too - to Motherwell and Lockerbie if not further. I suspect that may have dampened demand somewhat!

 

[rmHawk765]

Wonder how bright the long term reliability will be for class 810 ... ?

Not looking great so far, but hopefully it will get better once most of the 222s are gone. I'm concerned about how the 222s to ScotRail and Lumo will fare to be honest, as they already require heavy maintenance just to keep at least some running. EMR quite frankly has gone to great lengths to make such an intensively used fleet have near zero issues for so long.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I was on the 5 car 10:02 Preston - Carlisle this morning, certainly in my coach and the next one there were max a dozen people per coach. I can't imagine the rest of the train was much different.

Worth noting that today at least there were bus replacements north of Carlisle too - to Motherwell and Lockerbie if not further. I suspect that may have dampened demand somewhat!

Thank you, that's interesting.

 

[ChilliSauce]

Not looking great so far, but hopefully it will get better once most of the 222s are gone. I'm concerned about how the 222s to ScotRail and Lumo will fare to be honest, as they already require heavy maintenance just to keep at least some running. EMR quite frankly has gone to great lengths to make such an intensively used fleet have near zero issues for so long.

I am wondering if there has been a run down of mtce on the "222" by EMR knowing they would be going off lease ...so just do the appsolute minimum. And that tactic has come to now haunt them, as it was applied too early in the departure of the 222 from EMR .

As for the 810, with the 222 gone I am not sure how that will help the reliability of the 810 if it has inherited genetic problems that seem to plague the 805s. Generator failures etc.

In a worse case scenario overall fleet availability on the MML could end up being worse with just 810s

Personally I have now just "given up" trying to go anywhere on the MML as the service has become so unreliable, resulting in missed connections. I now prefer to drive over to the ECML and take LNER.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The 0740 Avanti service from Crewe to Carlisle (via Appleby) next Friday appears to be marked as 'Does Not Set Down / Does Not Pick Up' at Preston. So just "calls" there for crew change/reversal.

 

[rmHawk765]

I am wondering if there has been a run down of mtce on the "222" by EMR knowing they would be going off lease ...so just do the appsolute minimum.

To be completely fair to EMR, they did as much as they could for quite a long time. They were just hoping that the newest 80x batch wouldn't yet again have some sort of issues with it. First the interiors, then the cracks, then the underpowered engines for GWR, then the unreliable engines on the Everos, then the whole fire risk scandal with the 810s which induced a long delay, and now the 810s are also unreliable. Quite a clear pattern, isn't it...

Anyways, this is going off-topic, and I think the 810 introduction thread already has discussions about their reliability (though this is of course not the only issue with the MML).

 

[duffield]

Apologies if it's buried somewhere in the thread, but does anyone know if there are any more diverts planned after 19th April or is that it?

 

[The Planner]

Apologies if it's buried somewhere in the thread, but does anyone know if there are any more diverts planned after 19th April or is that it?

Not for a while.

 

[JTR60]

I think credit has to be given to Avanti as this week as the shuttles have settled down to be very reliable. Nearly all on or close to time and no cancellations, proving the 805’s can cope with the service. A lot of single units have been out, rather than double sets but from what I’ve seen they seem to be sufficient for the loadings.

 

[Condor7]

I think credit has to be given to Avanti as this week as the shuttles have settled down to be very reliable. Nearly all on or close to time and no cancellations, proving the 805’s can cope with the service. A lot of single units have been out, rather than double sets but from what I’ve seen they seem to be sufficient for the loadings.

I can’t say I have done extensive research on the subject, but I have to say each time I have gone down to the line the Avanti trains have been on time, and likewise when checking on RTT.

 

[Carlisle]

I think credit has to be given to Avanti as this week as the shuttles have settled down to be very reliable. Nearly all on or close to time and no cancellations, proving the 805’s can cope with the service. A lot of single units have been out, rather than double sets but from what I’ve seen they seem to be sufficient for the loadings.

Well said, agree entirely with that.

 

[Bahnopa]

I had a second good day out today involving the Settle-Carlisle diversions - this time north-bound at 13.06 from Preston.
Our 5-car train, which was fairly lightly loaded, left on time and remained on schedule as far as Horrocksford Junction (Clitheroe) where we were held up behind a late-running freight en route to Horton in Ribblesdale sidings.
The long block sections between Blackburn and Hellifield and on the Settle-Carlisle become very noticeable in such circumstances.
We were held up again at Settle Junction until the freight wagons had been backed into the sidings at Horton, and we arrived at Carlisle about 20 minutes down.
It was, though, a good trip. The weather was great, and the Evero functioned perfectly. Thank you Avanti!

 

[D1511]

I am rather tempted by this, since it seems to be working better this time around.
I'm quite surprised to see that I can get a return from Carlisle to Preston this Saturday, out on the 10.22 from Carlisle and back on the 13.07 from Preston (presumably on the same unit) for £18.60 with Railcard, so I am even more tempted now! Nearly 5 hours of scenic rail travel for under 20 quid!

 

[TrainTraveler]

I did the trip on Tuesday. A really nice day out.

On time both ways and really friendly staff in first class which I treated myself to on the southbound direction.

 

[185143]

Really good to see these are doing well. Hopefully Avanti will take the hint and keep them going during blocks. I assume these current works are not also coinciding with motorway closures like the January block did?

I travelled on a few of the January diverts. The first one was about 25 late in, but that in part was down to the long signalling sections and I suspect driver unfamiliarity with the route. It was one of the first ones up there in all fairness.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I certainly agree with the feeling on here that Avanti seem to have done a good job with reliability of the S&C diversions this time. (touch wood!)

Would I be right to think that the 805s are a little slower end to end Preston to Carlisle and vice versa over the Settle and Carlisle?

I seem to remember the 220/221s being around 10-15 mins faster. (I'm aware a few of this year's diversions have been slowed down due to pathing etc. etc.)

 

[Acathater]

Did the round trip Lancaster-Carlisle-Preston-Lancaster yesterday, used a printed card Preston-Carlisle day return. Last leg by bus
Left Carlisle on time in a five car unit, got into Preston ten minutes early for which the guard apologised... (despite a five minute hold at Settle Junction). Got the impression some staff had been reading recent comments on here, especially when the lady running the shop announced on leaving Carlisle "we're open now and will stay open all the way to Preston".......
First time I've been on an 805, but to my amateur ears the diesel definitely sounded laboured on the uphill stretch to Blea Moor, once past Ribblehead it sounded much happier.

Couple of observations about the train
1) Seat reservation system had obviously crashed, none were loaded in my coach while some of the other coaches were playing red and green disco lights. Train was lightly loaded so not a problem but definitely needs fixing (as did the PIS which looked like it had dead LED displays
2) For a two year old train the seats were abysmal. The seat covers were worn, discoloured and stretched, fitting as well as a loose tea towel. Given they have minimal seat padding they definitely need a rework

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Did the round trip Lancaster-Carlisle-Preston-Lancaster yesterday, used a printed card Preston-Carlisle day return.

Interesting! Thought Preston-Carlisle day returns were usually routed via Penrith? Does that ticket allow travel via Ribblehead, or indeed the final leg by RRB from Preston back to Lancaster?

 

[Acathater]

Interesting! Thought Preston-Carlisle day returns were usually routed via Penrith? Does that ticket allow travel via Ribblehead, or indeed the final leg by RRB from Preston back to Lancaster?

the ticket was printed "via Penrith" but when I ordered it online it was offered for a direct one-leg trip Carlisle-Preston taking over two hours, so yes it seemed valid - it wasn't checked on the train

the final leg was probably a bit cheeky - the outward ticket had been viewed on the first leg to Carlisle but not marked so looked unused. It wasn't checked on the bus anyway. Only thing that could have caused a problem was if someone looked at the logistics of starting a round trip that late in the day

 

[voyagerdude220]

Are there any more diversions planned this year? If so, what date/s?

 

[lrbvoyager]

Are there any more diversions planned this year? If so, what date/s?

I saw somewhere it was August and September but the September ones were at the same time as the LNER diversions through Carlisle. I’m not 100% though.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I saw somewhere it was August and September but the September ones were at the same time as the LNER diversions through Carlisle. I’m not 100% though.

Ok thank you.

 

[The Planner]

Are there any more diversions planned this year? If so, what date/s?

Not that Im aware of.