Possibility of Stansted Express 745 units moving to Great Eastern?

[saismee]

mods note - split from this thread

Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

Hi all. I cant seem to find a thread specifically about these trains so i thought i would start one. I just have a few questions. Where are the trains going to be built and tested? Is it Switzerland? I have heard a few different things about them being built and tested in the Czech Republic...

www.railforums.co.uk

Maybe not the right place to post this... couldn't find a 745 thread but it concerns 755s too anyway.

Supposedly the 745/1s are to have first class fitted and be moved to the Eastern side to operate LST <> NRW and LST <> IPS services, which will now be scheduled with first. 755 triple traction services will be broken down to have higher unit availability, and Stansted Express will be operated by 720s modified with more luggage racks.

I believe this is to facilitate extra peak regional services coming in the new timetable. All exciting changes.

 

[transportphoto]

Maybe not the right place to post this... couldn't find a 745 thread but it concerns 755s too anyway.

Supposedly the 745/1s are to have first class fitted and be moved to the Eastern side to operate LST <> NRW and LST <> IPS services, which will now be scheduled with first. 755 triple traction services will be broken down to have higher unit availability, and Stansted Express will be operated by 720s modified with more luggage racks.

I believe this is to facilitate extra peak regional services coming in the new timetable. All exciting changes.

Curious as to where you’ve heard this?

 

[saismee]

Curious as to where you’ve heard this?

Chinese whispers

I can't see how they'd run the extra regional services without breaking up the triple tractions, so I'm inclined to believe it.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Maybe not the right place to post this... couldn't find a 745 thread but it concerns 755s too anyway.

Supposedly the 745/1s are to have first class fitted and be moved to the Eastern side to operate LST <> NRW and LST <> IPS services, which will now be scheduled with first. 755 triple traction services will be broken down to have higher unit availability, and Stansted Express will be operated by 720s modified with more luggage racks.

The whole way along they should have been using 10 car 720s on the Stansted Express with 2+2 seating (not 2x5 cars with 3+2 and narrow aisles) and had a bunch of 20x 745s to do what they now appear to be going on if what you say is correct and then freeing the 755s up for just local services that could be expanded.

Even if you put the 720s on the Stansted Express now, the fact they don't have any corridor connections is not going to promote load distribution through the train and that's already bad enough now when people don't walk down to the end of the train. Now if they got on the first half they're going to be physically unable to and have the narrowest aisles on any train I've seen anywhere in Europe!

I think the idea itself is not bad, but would have been better if they didn't convert all the 5 cars to 10 cars and had a 720 variant with 2+2 seating.

 

[saismee]

And are they going to do anything with the 720s to make them more suitable for the Stansted Express?

I mean like removing the 3+2 seating so the aisle actually is possible to easily move luggage in?

Heard they were being retrofitted to suit StEx better, including more luggage racks. No idea how far they'll go.

I do wonder what they'll do with the side decals as they're supposed to be rebranded soon-ish. GA ticket machines are already GBR branded!

 

[Magdalia]

I believe this is to facilitate extra peak regional services coming in the new timetable.

The new timetable is only a few weeks away.

Supposedly the 745/1s are to have first class fitted and be moved to the Eastern side to operate LST <> NRW and LST <> IPS services, which will now be scheduled with first. 755 triple traction services will be broken down to have higher unit availability, and Stansted Express will be operated by 720s modified with more luggage racks.

None of this is deliverable in a few weeks.

I can't see how they'd run the extra regional services without breaking up the triple tractions

I have looked at the December 2025 diagrams, together with what is in RTT for May 2026, and came to the opposite conclusion.

 

[saismee]

None of this is deliverable in a few weeks.

Of course not, but moving 720s and 745s around without modifications is possible.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Apr 2026 ==

745109 working 1B88 has came to a stand outside of Broxbourne for a few hours now. Somehow the driver cannot rectify the fault.

There is a brake fault on the unit AIUI.

 

[Magdalia]

Of course not, but moving 720s and 745s around without modifications is possible.

But unnecessary, and RTT suggests that it isn't happening.

All of the following Stansted/Norwich switches are still shown after May in the Liverpool Street platforms on RTT:

1B05->1P08, 1P01->1B22
1B37->1P24, 1P23->1B54
1B57->1P34, 1P33->1B74
1B59->1P36, 1P35->1B76
1B97->1P58, 1P53->1B14

 

[saismee]

But unnecessary, and RTT suggests that it isn't happening.

All of the following Stansted/Norwich switches are still shown after May in the Liverpool Street platforms on RTT:

1B05->1P08, 1P01->1B22
1B37->1P24, 1P23->1B54
1B57->1P34, 1P33->1B74
1B59->1P36, 1P35->1B76
1B97->1P58, 1P53->1B14

Possibly it was a longer-term strategy coming later on? I still believe it could happen due to the volume of 720s.

 

[Mikey C]

Maybe not the right place to post this... couldn't find a 745 thread but it concerns 755s too anyway.

Supposedly the 745/1s are to have first class fitted and be moved to the Eastern side to operate LST <> NRW and LST <> IPS services, which will now be scheduled with first. 755 triple traction services will be broken down to have higher unit availability, and Stansted Express will be operated by 720s modified with more luggage racks.

I believe this is to facilitate extra peak regional services coming in the new timetable. All exciting changes.

The 745s work very well on Stansted services, because of their low floors. Airport services, with lots of luggage, really benefit from low floor access.

 

[Russel]

Blimey - that's four diesels working really hard.

I thought the same, quite impressive really!

Maybe not the right place to post this... couldn't find a 745 thread but it concerns 755s too anyway.

Supposedly the 745/1s are to have first class fitted and be moved to the Eastern side to operate LST <> NRW and LST <> IPS services, which will now be scheduled with first. 755 triple traction services will be broken down to have higher unit availability, and Stansted Express will be operated by 720s modified with more luggage racks.

I believe this is to facilitate extra peak regional services coming in the new timetable. All exciting changes.

If this happens, then it's good news and should have happened long ago.

Is there still a surplus of 720s or will this be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul?

 

[Magdalia]

Supposedly the 745/1s are to have first class fitted and be moved to the Eastern side to operate LST <> NRW and LST <> IPS services, which will now be scheduled with first. 755 triple traction services will be broken down to have higher unit availability, and Stansted Express will be operated by 720s modified with more luggage racks.

I'm very sceptical about this, for two reasons.

One is cost. Fitting the Stansted Express class 745s with First Class, and modifying class 720s for Stansted Express won't be cheap. These are the sort of changes that usually only happen at mid-life refurbishment, and these trains are only a few years old. They don't happen quickly either, I doubt that units would be done more quickly than one at a time, and each unit would be out of traffic for at least a month for the work to be done.

The other is the importance of the Stansted Express to the railway generally and Greater Anglia in particular. Liverpool Street-Stansted Airport is the fourth biggest station to station flow, and the biggest if the Elizabeth Line is excluded. I have read, I think somewhere on this forum, that the Stansted Express generates about a quarter of all Greater Anglia revenue. Furthermore, the Stansted Express is going to grow in importance when the Airport expands, with usage likely to rise by 20-30%.

The 745s work very well on Stansted services, because of their low floors. Airport services, with lots of luggage, really benefit from low floor access.

Even if you put the 720s on the Stansted Express now, the fact they don't have any corridor connections is not going to promote load distribution through the train and that's already bad enough now when people don't walk down to the end of the train

As others have pointed out, the class 745 is fit for purpose for the Stansted Express, whereas the class 720 is not. When the railway has a fit for purpose train for one of its most busy and most lucrative routes, it seems crazy to me to take those trains away and use them elsewhere less productively.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

I'm very sceptical about this, for two reasons.

One is cost. Fitting the Stansted Express class 745s with First Class, and modifying class 720s for Stansted Express won't be cheap. These are the sort of changes that usually only happen at mid-life refurbishment, and these trains are only a few years old. They don't happen quickly either, I doubt that units would be done more quickly than one at a time, and each unit would be out of traffic for at least a month for the work to be done.

The other is the importance of the Stansted Express to the railway generally and Greater Anglia in particular. Liverpool Street-Stansted Airport is the fourth biggest station to station flow, and the biggest if the Elizabeth Line is excluded. I have read, I think somewhere on this forum, that the Stansted Express generates about a quarter of all Greater Anglia revenue. Furthermore, the Stansted Express is going to grow in importance when the Airport expands, with usage likely to rise by 20-30%.




As others have pointed out, the class 745 is fit for purpose for the Stansted Express, whereas the class 720 is not. When the railway has a fit for purpose train for one of its most busy and most lucrative routes, it seems crazy to me to take those trains away and use them elsewhere less productively.

I'd be sceptical too but I can see reasons for it to happen:
As the units get order (they're 6 to 7 years old already don't forget) and the 745s being worked very hard due to not having spares, their maintenance time will need to be increased and therefore available units on a particular day will reduce, not there yet, still a few years away from that.
Another reason is to provide any increase in services on the Norwich to London runs again will require more units ( peak services are now full and standing to and from Colchester), again not there yet but in the next few years.
3rd reason is probably the least useful but most compelling is it would be a relatively cheap stunt to announce 'improvements' brought about by GBR. I say relatively cheap, compared to new trains, it's cheap and more deliverable in the shorter term.
Other 2 reasons to do it is to free up regional 755s to add local services and consistency of product on both IC and Stan ex / operational convenience.

 

[Russel]

I'm very sceptical about this, for two reasons.

One is cost. Fitting the Stansted Express class 745s with First Class, and modifying class 720s for Stansted Express won't be cheap. These are the sort of changes that usually only happen at mid-life refurbishment, and these trains are only a few years old. They don't happen quickly either, I doubt that units would be done more quickly than one at a time, and each unit would be out of traffic for at least a month for the work to be done.

I'm not convinced by this argument, firstly, the Stansted 745s already operate on normal Greater Anglia services without First Class and have done almost since day 1, so retrofitting First to these wouldn't need to be done in a hurry and second, regarding the 720s, ripping out a couple of rows of seats per carriage and bolting in a luggage rack in their places isn't a big job at all.

To me, it makes sense, if you've got shortage of 745s for the Norwich services and a surplus of 720s that could be moved over to Stansted to release more 745s, then it would be an own goal not to.

 

[saismee]

GA aren't afraid of retrofitting things onto these trains. All the 745/1s already have tables so this is surely just the next step.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I'm not convinced by this argument, firstly, the Stansted 745s already operate on normal Greater Anglia services without First Class and have done almost since day 1, so retrofitting First to these wouldn't need to be done in a hurry and second, regarding the 720s, ripping out a couple of rows of seats per carriage and bolting in a luggage rack in their places isn't a big job at all.

To me, it makes sense, if you've got shortage of 745s for the Norwich services and a surplus of 720s that could be moved over to Stansted to release more 745s, then it would be an own goal not to.

The problem is not too many seats, it's the 3+2 seating and narrow aisles.

 

[Magdalia]

GA aren't afraid of retrofitting things onto these trains. All the 745/1s already have tables so this is surely just the next step.

Compared to reconfiguring standard class to first class, or 3+2 searing to 2+2 seating, tables are trivial.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Apr 2026 ==

The problem is not too many seats, it's the 3+2 seating and narrow aisles.

In particular, class 720 aisles too narrow for suitcases, which is a significant obstacle for airport services.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

or 3+2 searing to 2+2 seating,

From a passenger perspective the 3rd seat seems to just be bolted onto the side of the middle seat, is it really not just a matter of unscrewing it and taking it off?

 

[Russel]

From a passenger perspective the 3rd seat seems to just be bolted onto the side of the middle seat, is it really not just a matter of unscrewing it and taking it off?

Wouldn't even need doing to every row either to be fair.

Just look at the 730/0s to see what could be done.

But what we're here seeing is typical of the modern approach to anything in this country, we put all of the effort into coming up with reasons why we can't do something, rather than how we can do something.

 

[43096]

Compared to reconfiguring standard class to first class, or 3+2 searing to 2+2 seating, tables are trivial.

Is there a revenue aspect to this, though? If the first class is added on the StanEx 745s for use on Norwich and Ipswich workings, that enables first class fares on those services currently diagrammed for standard only.

 

[RailWonderer]

Wouldn't even need doing to every row either to be fair.

Just look at the 730/0s to see what could be done.

But what we're here seeing is typical of the modern approach to anything in this country, we put all of the effort into coming up with reasons why we can't do something, rather than how we can do something.

SWT did reconfigurations all the time (with the HC 450s) and SWR do as well (with 458s recently) so I imagine GA will be allowed to do so given the importance and profitability of the Stansted Express. Removing the third seat and adding luggage racks would be easy to do I imagine. They still haven't fit all tables on 745/1s yet, I had 105 last month and they still hadn't fit all of them in the middle coaches, but that's because the 745s are so intensively worked they can't take any out of service without using more 755s on the IC and 720s on Stansted (and it's been over a year since they started adding tables to the 745/1s), I imagine this would go a lot quicker if it went ahead.

I'd like to see all 745s on the IC and a few on GE stoppers (and keep one on the Stansted for crew knowledge or whatever) if it means the 745s get more life out of them and fail less often for being worked that hard.

 

[Starmill]

In particular, class 720 aisles too narrow for suitcases, which is a significant obstacle for airport services.

The aisles are also too narrow for many people, which seems like a much more severe impediment than worrying about suitcases. Many many trains have aisles a person can just about fit through but not a large case. I'm fat but I'm not that fat, and I barely fit in a 720. If someone's sat in the aisle seat of either side, it's not possible for someone with a moderate belly such as me to go by without making physical contact with their elbows, shoulders etc. In practice I walk sideways, which is still not enough to prevent scraping along the edge of the clothes of those seated.

 

[chubs]

720's already operate some Stansted services don't they? The 755's could really do with some luggage racks too, on the Stansted route they get rammed so you either try and jam your suitcase in the seats with you, slide it underneath where it hits the support bar or put it in the cycle area then get told off (understand so) by the cyclists at Cambridge.

I still wish they'd just order a couple more of each variant of 745 and do it properly.

 

[dk1]

720's already operate some Stansted services don't they? The 755's could really do with some luggage racks too, on the Stansted route they get rammed so you either try and jam your suitcase in the seats with you, slide it underneath where it hits the support bar or put it in the cycle area then get told off (understand so) by the cyclists at Cambridge.

I still wish they'd just order a couple more of each variant of 745 and do it properly.

Larger cases fit nicely on the generously spacious overhead racks gifted to the 745/755 fleet. Unfortunately even the able bodied seem incapable of making good use of them.

 

[Magdalia]

Wouldn't even need doing to every row either to be fair.

At both Liverpool Street and Stansted Airport passengers enter the platform at one end. The objective is for passengers, including those with luggage, to be able to board the train then move down the aisle inside the train to find space to sit for a 50 minute journey. For that to be achieved, all of the third seats would have to be removed, and possibly also some bulkheads.

The aisles are also too narrow for many people, which seems like a much more severe impediment than worrying about suitcases.

Suitcases matter because we are discussing an airport service where a high proportion of passengers have luggage. But you are right that lots of people are "out of gauge", and that matters too, because of access to the toilets.

I still wish they'd just order a couple more of each variant of 745 and do it properly.

This isn't going to happen. In the longer term, I'd expect any new trains for Greater Anglia to be battery bimodes, possibly a battery version of the class 755.

 

[Trainbike46]

Larger cases fit nicely on the generously spacious overhead racks gifted to the 745/755 fleet. Unfortunately even the able bodied seem incapable of making good use of them.

I do understand that though. I'm able-bodied, but I never use overhead luggage racks, simply because I almost always forget to take anything I put in there. I've lost too many things to risk it anymore. I suspect this isn't unusual, and other people do the same thing. Or maybe this is just a quirk of my brain

 

[dk1]

I do understand that though. I'm able-bodied, but I never use overhead luggage racks, simply because I almost always forget to take anything I put in there. I've lost too many things to risk it anymore. I suspect this isn't unusual, and other people do the same thing. Or maybe this is just a quirk of my brain

I think you just have to get into the habit and always train your brain (excuse the pun) to look up. They are clear after all. Sometimes helps to pop it on the rack opposite then you’re constantly looking at your luggage.

 

[Trainbike46]

I still wish they'd just order a couple more of each variant of 745 and do it properly.

I don't think they will order more, but if they do I think they'd be better off getting only the IC-type, as those are perfectly suited to all services they're used on, including the airport services, and it helps them move towards a more unified fleet. Due to the maintenance always taking place in Norwich, the StanEx and IC fleets have to interwork anyway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Apr 2026 ==

I'm not convinced by this argument, firstly, the Stansted 745s already operate on normal Greater Anglia services without First Class and have done almost since day 1, so retrofitting First to these wouldn't need to be done in a hurry and second, regarding the 720s, ripping out a couple of rows of seats per carriage and bolting in a luggage rack in their places isn't a big job at all.

To me, it makes sense, if you've got shortage of 745s for the Norwich services and a surplus of 720s that could be moved over to Stansted to release more 745s, then it would be an own goal not to.

There is one major advantage I can see to having all the 745s on the GE on the cost front. It is to do with staff training.

All staff on the WAML are trained for 720s, so switching StanEx to them would require no staff training. eliminating the 745s from StanEx would likely save some staff training as staff would only have to be trained on 720s.

However, aiui, Norwich-based staff are only trained on 745s and 755s. Using a significant amount of 720s on the IC services would likely require (costly) training on 720s. With maintenance in Norwich, the IC has to have at least some of the 745s as well, so at least some GE staff will have to be trained on 745s.

The issue is also that there's not really enough 745s for all IC and StanEx services, so some of them have to be done by either 720s or 755 triple-traction. If the 755s become necessary for the regional services, that only leaves the 720s, and based on the above they probably should be used on StanEx. This does suggest removing the middle seat on at least some of 720s, so they are more suitable for StanEx when they end up there would be a good idea.

 

[dk1]

I don't think they will order more, but if they do I think they'd be better off getting only the IC-type, as those are perfectly suited to all services they're used on, including the airport services, and it helps them move towards a more unified fleet. Due to the maintenance always taking place in Norwich, the StanEx and IC fleets have to interwork anyway.

And one of the reasons an early plan was to modify a sub-class of latter build of 720s to become dedicated to the Stansted Express thus making the WAML totally Alstom operated. This would then allow the transfer of the 745/1s to Great Eastern duties (Clacton/Ipswich) and keep them on their depot side of operations. That sensible plan however was during the still uncertain pandemic times and never came to fruition.

 

[Trainbike46]

I think you just have to get into the habit and always train your brain (excuse the pun) to look up. They are clear after all. Sometimes helps to pop it on the rack opposite then you’re constantly looking at your luggage.

I did try that, and I kept failing. I've kind of settled for keeping smaller bags on my lap or at my feet (or on the seat next to me if the train is quiet, removing it if it becomes busier later on), and putting large or heavy suitcases (which I wouldn't put in the overhead because of the risk of it falling on someone) in end of carriage luggage racks.

I do think the 755s are very good, so I don't think there's an issue anyway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Apr 2026 ==

And one of the reasons an early plan was to modify a sub-class of latter build of 720s to become dedicated to the Stansted Express thus making the WAML totally Alstom operated. This would then allow the transfer of the 745/1s to Great Eastern duties (Clacton/Ipswich) and keep them on their depot side of operations. That sensible plan however was during the still uncertain pandemic times and never came to fruition.

That does sound sensible from my outsider perspective.