ScotRail filthy windows

[Bletchleyite]

Did a few trips on ScotRail last weekend and one negative observation I made was that on every single train the windows were absolutely filthy to the point you could barely see anything. This was both on the West Highland Line and on Glasgow-Edinburgh.

Are there carriage washer issues, or is this is a policy issue? I get that bad weather can make trains mucky, but this included well after the storm on Saturday.

Other trains I used (XC, Avanti and TPE) had clean windows.

 

[Carntyne]

Just a lack of interest in keeping the trains clean.

 

[RiverDon]

At my local Scotrail depot the trains that are stabled all go through the wash every night but it doesn't seem very effective. I often see them going through the wash at Haymarket during the day too. The dirt seems too engrained into the glass for the mechanical wash brushes to shift.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At my local Scotrail depot the trains that are stabled all go through the wash every night but it doesn't seem very effective. I often see them going through the wash at Haymarket during the day too. The dirt seems too engrained into the glass for the mechanical wash brushes to shift.

Interesting, as other TOCs seem to manage it fairly well. Northern, notably, is another one where windows are often mucky. I wonder if some depots just need a replacement washer? Or is it something specific about 156s as they seem to be the worst for window muck, both at ScotRail and Northern (I don't think I ever saw a mucky 195). Though I also came across a disgustingly filthy Hitachi EMU (I get that those do pick up some around the window frame as the window is slightly inset, but this one was utterly filthy and it was only about 9am).

 

[mmh]

I commute into Glasgow Central for a week every couple of months and for a long time now I've noticed that any 156 in the station looks filthy - but I'm not sure they actually are, thinking about it now it's been mentioned. I could be wrong but the livery is fine, it's not like you can't read the ScotRail on them.

I never travel on one, only 380s and 385s and they're perfectly acceptable, so I wonder if it's that the windows on 156s are just absolutely knackered?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Apr 2026 ==

Hmm, while I was typing that I see other people are wondering the same...

 

[scotraildriver]

The wash at Eastfield depot has been out of use for many months due to a water leak somewhere under the depot. It'll be a big job to find and fix hence some of the 156s are filthy. They are being hand washed with acid periodically however.

 

[RiverDon]

One of the cleaners told me a few months ago that the stuff they use to get graffiti off the outside is really really bad for the paint and stickers and that's why you see some units that look very rough or are missing the white dots.

Also the dirt seems to get underneath the 7 cities stickers on the HSTs and leaves big filth patches. There is a HST rake going about at the moment with the stickers on one coach missing and a horrible brown mess where they used to be.

 

[tfw756rider]

Just a lack of interest in keeping the trains clean.

Why?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I never travel on one, only 380s and 385s and they're perfectly acceptable, so I wonder if it's that the windows on 156s are just absolutely knackered?

I had a 385 from Edinburgh to Glasgow on Tuesday morning (around 9am, edit, it was the 0930) which was even filthier than the 156s, though. You could barely see out at all.

On Northern it does appear that it's the 150s and 156s that are usually worst, but I wondered if that was more a factor of which depot they mostly live in and that that depot has a faulty/unreliable/not very effective washer or a lack of attention to detail?

 

[DS25]

Its a bit similar on tfw the 150s/153s/158s usually have filthy windows and sometimes more rarely a 197

 

[Sealink]

My brother has a YouTube channel where he does TripReports...the latest sees him using bottled water and a tissue to clean "his" window on a 156 from Fort William to Mallaig.

 

[The exile]

My brother has a YouTube channel where he does TripReports...the latest sees him using bottled water and a tissue to clean "his" window on a 156 from Fort William to Mallaig.

Used to be a regular activity on BR Intercity journeys in the early 80s - although it was more likely wetted paper towels from the train loo.

 

[tfw756rider]

My brother has a YouTube channel where he does TripReports...the latest sees him using bottled water and a tissue to clean "his" window on a 156 from Fort William to Mallaig.

Can we have the link to the video please?

 

[Carntyne]

Why?

No pride.

It costs money to replace the worn out brushes.

 

[RiverDon]

I forgot to reply to this thread ages ago that when the question was first posted I asked a fitter about the wash machine at our depot and they said that it is meant to use a chemical/detergent additive like a car wash but it's too expensive to buy these days so it just squirts plain water on the trains. So it's no better at cleaning them than a heavy rain shower!

 

[ic31420]

I suspect that's tosh. TFR isn't particularly expensive, we used to pay about £300-350 for an IBC.

Though I suppose if it has to be railway approved then you can x20 the price as usual.

 

[scotraildriver]

I suspect that's tosh. TFR isn't particularly expensive, we used to pay about £300-350 for an IBC.

Though I suppose if it has to be railway approved then you can x20 the price as usual.

Plenty of TFR at the depots I visit. Most of the 156s and HSTs have been hand washed in recent weeks and the 385s are starting to go through the same. Certainly looking better than a few months ago. (Apart from all the acid running down the underframes)
.

 

[RiverDon]

I can only post what I was told. Could be untrue but seems a strange thing for the guy to lie about to me?

 

[Sealink]

Can we have the link to the video please?

Here it is. I hope you enjoy his channel!

 

[Fidelis]

Here it is. I hope you enjoy his channel!

Great photography but spoilt for my Highland Scots wife by subtitles calling Mallaig MALIK perhaps a well known Bond villain, Glenfinnan GWENFILON more appropriate to Wales, Inverness capital of the Highlands INRESEESES. Plus not Ferries on the Loch but FAIRIES- on second thoughts if that's true they could be linking up with Peter Pan
Despite these comments the film is well worth watching for outstanding vistas and just a thought perhaps passengers on the line should be equipped with cloths and window cleaning fluid, with appropriate fare reduction if they clean the windows.

 

[tfw756rider]

subtitles calling Mallaig MALIK perhaps a well known Bond villain, Glenfinnan GWENFILON more appropriate to Wales, Inverness capital of the Highlands INRESEESES. Plus not Ferries on the Loch but FAIRIES

On videos that haven't had subtitles manually put in by the uploader ("English"), they're automatically generated by YouTube using speech-to-text ("English (auto-generated)"). I think the automatic subtitles can be manually corrected by the uploader.

 

[RunRepeat]

This is somewhat of an area of expertise for me. It's generally down to two things, incorrect product (and lack of understanding of the correct product to use for daily and deep clean cycles), and incorrect or ill conceived process/method of application and removal. It's a manpower heavy job to do correctly, and once it goes beyond a certain point, its very hard to recover. You also have the added complication of engineering input into which products are certified 'safe' to use, there is a lot of paperwork to change and very few people have the appetite to drive it.

Then add in varying types of soiling which can alter from region to region and fleet to fleet, the surface finish (paint/vinyl), plus the structural attributes of the carriage (window recesses, door pockets, taper and so on), where daily and deep cleaning can take place due to local planning issues around surface drainage, use of interceptors, plus the planning around fleet diagrams, then suddenly fleet cleaning looks less simple than at first glance.

 

[Mike Machin]

Did a few trips on ScotRail last weekend and one negative observation I made was that on every single train the windows were absolutely filthy to the point you could barely see anything. This was both on the West Highland Line and on Glasgow-Edinburgh.

Are there carriage washer issues, or is this is a policy issue? I get that bad weather can make trains mucky, but this included well after the storm on Saturday.

Other trains I used (XC, Avanti and TPE) had clean windows.

From my days of travelling frequently on the nationalised railway in the 70s/80s, this is normal for a railway operated by the public sector. Dirty trains will likely become the new normal.

 

[Bletchleyite]

From my days of travelling frequently on the nationalised railway in the 70s/80s, this is normal for a railway operated by the public sector. Dirty trains will likely become the new normal.

LNER trains are always spotless. It just depends on how much the senior management cares about such things.

 

[Retorus]

LNER trains are always spotless. It just depends on how much the senior management cares about such things.

They most certainly are not!

 

[Strathclyder]

Funny that this thread has popped up, as I noticed a few 380s looking noticably unkempt externally on trips down to Ayrshire & Inverclyde in recent weeks, the 156s I've seen don't seem quite as bad by comparison (especially the ones that have not long come back from Wolverton). Two that stood out to me this past Sunday (10th May) were 380101 (my train to Greenock West) and sister unit 102 (saw it leave Central on a East Kilbride turn at 1348, 7 minutes before my train left at 1355). The latter in particular bore all the scars of recent graffitti removal, paint lingering on the solebars, some of the white dots missing with unsightly brown scars in their place, filthy windows and just all round looking rather shabby and tired. 101 wasn't much better, I could count the number of windows on my side of the carriage being at least somewhat clean on one hand.

(@RunRepeat beat me to this next part, but it bears repeating all the same)

Why is this the case? A combination of many things as fleet cleaning is far from a simple process: the simple fact that it's a man-power heavy job, the products used to remove the graffitti playing havoc with the vinyls and paint, the quality of the surface finish of the vinyls/paint to start with, ill-conceived or poorly implemented processes on how to apply and then remove it properly, the product being used is even appropriate for this application, which products are deemed 'safe' to use and the drawn-out process of selecting and then getting a alternative through the approval process if not, the varying types of 'soiling' that occur between fleets, depots & regions, the range of carriage structures (door and window recesses/pockets, tapers and so on) and the list of locations where daily and deep cleaning can take place being vanishingly small (local planning permission not being forthcoming to allow for surface drainage being one such hurdle). Combine all that and it's small wonder the fleet is in the state it's currently in.

What really isn't helping here is an persistent shortage of units and thus the need to have as many trains/units out in service as possible to maintain the timetable and not keecap the fleet diagrams, so any units shabby appearence can be roundly disregarded (which neatly explains why I've seen more than one tagged 380 out in service recently). Good to hear that the situation is improving in some part though, and I hope it continues to do so.

 

[Sealink]

Great photography but spoilt for my Highland Scots wife by subtitles calling Mallaig MALIK perhaps a well known Bond villain, Glenfinnan GWENFILON more appropriate to Wales, Inverness capital of the Highlands INRESEESES. Plus not Ferries on the Loch but FAIRIES- on second thoughts if that's true they could be linking up with Peter Pan
Despite these comments the film is well worth watching for outstanding vistas and just a thought perhaps passengers on the line should be equipped with cloths and window cleaning fluid, with appropriate fare reduction if they clean the windows.

My brother will appreciate the comments on the vistas!

The subtitles are YouTube I'm afraid not the channel. The sound was pretty poor at some points which didn't help. I'll let him know he can change them.

Oooh imagine if he did subtitles in Highland Scots!

 

[scosutsut]

Replying to this rather than starting a new post. It's increasingly noticeable across the whole fleet. On two different 385s pre 7am and the interiors are stained and untidy. Chewing gum on seats etc. The windows have caked on muck thats been on so long its turned green and looks like they are now attempting to support life.

If I was sceptic, which of course would be a terrible thing to be I must imagine, one could conclude that non revenue generating items are happening less often, or to a lower standard.

The internal focus on pride and quality has definitely slipped, has their been a change at the top recently as it's so widespread it feels like policy change not a broken washer somewhere.

 

[The exile]

The windows have caked on muck thats been on so long its turned green and looks like they are now attempting to support life.

The internal focus on pride and quality has definitely slipped, has their been a change at the top recently as it's so widespread it feels like policy change not a broken washer somewhere.

If it were anywhere else in the country, I would assume that the state of the windows reflected (pun unintended) a laudable response by the railway to the drought conditions. Not sure that applies north of the border, though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it were anywhere else in the country, I would assume that the state of the windows reflected (pun unintended) a laudable response by the railway to the drought conditions. Not sure that applies north of the border, though.

Nor did it apply to anywhere in the UK in April when I made the post