Signal berth codes?

[Amos390]

Just saw this at Leicester behind 2P57, the service was meant to have left nearly an hour ago, could imply a failed (or Broken) train

 

[saismee]

There was FAIL at Witham today because of a broken down train.

 

[43010]

Does anyone know the meaning of 'NARP' below 1V48? For context, the service was delayed and eventually terminated at Exeter St Davids due to disorder (according to Realtime Trains).

 

[High Dyke]

And then **** usually denotes either a signal failure or an unidentified train/item on the tracks doesnt it?

Or the signaller has forgotten to interpose the description, where done manually.

 

[Dave W]

Does anyone know the meaning of 'NARP' below 1V48? For context, the service was delayed and eventually terminated at Exeter St Davids due to disorder (according to Realtime Trains).

Signaller a fan of Hot Fuzz? "Narp" is a line in that meaning "no" (which we've also seen before on berths)

 

[Sealink]

Where would these have passed?
1W66 disappeared...

 

[43010]

Signaller a fan of Hot Fuzz? "Narp" is a line in that meaning "no" (which we've also seen before on berths)

That makes sense, I also saw 'FUZZY' earlier on the same berth

 

[Gloster]

Where would these have passed?
1W66 disappeared...


View attachment 201456View attachment 201457

They wouldn’t. 1W66 went over Dorchester Junction at 15.30 and went round to Dorchester South and on to Waterloo. 2V72 went over the junction at 1538 and went to West and on to Gloucester via Westbury.

 

[Amos390]

Saw that the GCRN mainline link has a very descriptive code on it…

 

[Belperpete]

I also saw 'FUZZY' earlier on the same berth

Are you sure? FUZZY is 5 characters.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

Are you sure? FUZZY is 5 characters.

FUZY maybe?

 

[43010]

FUZY maybe?

I think you might be right, my apologies.

 

[Amos390]

Does anyone have any ideas about a meaning of the PICO code in Beeston Run Around at the moment, could be nothing but I’m intrigued.

 

[Bigfoot]

Does anyone have any ideas about a meaning of the PICO code in Beeston Run Around at the moment, could be nothing but I’m intrigued.

Person In Charge Of. There are various PICO'x' roles. PICOY PICOY etc

 

[endofthetunnel]

Does anyone have any ideas about a meaning of the PICO code in Beeston Run Around at the moment, could be nothing but I’m intrigued.

Person In Charge Of (…Sidings)
As in, someone has taken it under possession for engineering/maintenance.

 

[j37401]

Person In Charge Of (…Sidings)
As in, someone has taken it under possession for engineering/maintenance.

Could be but PIC is most likely a reminder that a shunter/groundstaff is on site and in charge of the sidings for any train movements taking place. Most private yards will have an agreement in place with the signaller that no train movements ie arr & dep cannot take place without a PIC on site.
Sometimes the signaller will mark the signal berth with the name of the PIC and will most likely have a form filled in showing name, tel no, company and book on/off times.

 

[endofthetunnel]

Could be but PIC is most likely a reminder that a shunter/groundstaff is on site and in charge of the sidings for any train movements taking place. Most private yards will have an agreement in place with the signaller that no train movements ie arr & dep cannot take place without a PIC on site.
Sometimes the signaller will mark the signal berth with the name of the PIC and will most likely have a form filled in showing name, tel no, company and book on/off times.

Yeah fair point - You don’t need to tell me what signallers might do, I am one lol, but yard PICs completely slipped my mind thanks.

 

[Amos390]

Just saw this at York, it's pretty obvious what it means (66433 stabled there at the moment) however I thought signal codes were limited to 4 characters?

 

[rower40]

What system is that screenshot from please? The TD berth in siding 2 (nearest to platform 11) currently contains the description “LOCO”. Maybe something else has tied it to the TOPS number.

 

[Amos390]

What system is that screenshot from please? The TD berth in siding 2 (nearest to platform 11) currently contains the description “LOCO”. Maybe something else has tied it to the TOPS number.

Railcam, it’s also been changed now to 0M48. Must’ve just been a Railcam-side thing, not across all diagrams.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

How do we end up with two 5W51s at Euston at the same time...? Screenshot below...
The top one is certainly a genuine 5W51; it's 730 203 en route from Camden to Euston to form a ( cancelled - reason "disorder" on RTT or "person ill on train" on Euston's screens ) 16.19 to Northampton.

The lower one in platform 4 is supposed to be the delayed 1U41 with 730 210 + 730 225, just changed to 730 213 + 730 208, delayed "person ill on train".

Edited to add - 1U41 now going from platform 5, with 213 + 208 pinched off an incoming Tring working. 210 + 225 are definitely parked in platform 4. The upper apparition of 5W51 has vanished, presumably 203 went back to Camden... but on OTT, 210 + 225 are still showing as 5W51 in platform 4.

Which means my question still stands - how did we get two trains showing the same reporting number at teh same time in the same place?

 

[Belperpete]

How do we end up with two 5W51s at Euston at the same time...? Screenshot below...

Because the signaller interposed the same description twice? Probably because plans changed, and they either haven't noticed the first instance, or haven't got around to removing it.

Remember that this isn't what the signaller sees. The signalling indication panel or screen shows the state of all the track circuits and axle counters - these are the signallers primary source of information about where trains are. The train descriptions are very much a secondary source, to help the signaller identify what train that line of red lights is. Added to which, the train description is often not where the train is. A busy signaller may not bother with discrepancies such as that you mention - he knows where the train is, and he can sort the TD out later (or it will automatically sort itself out when the next train comes along).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Because the signaller interposed the same description twice? Probably because plans changed, and they either haven't noticed the first instance, or haven't got around to removing it.

Remember that this isn't what the signaller sees. The signalling indication panel or screen shows the state of all the track circuits and axle counters - these are the signallers primary source of information about where trains are. The train descriptions are very much a secondary source, to help the signaller identify what train that line of red lights is. Added to which, the train description is often not where the train is. A busy signaller may not bother with discrepancies such as that you mention - he knows where the train is, and he can sort the TD out later (or it will automatically sort itself out when the next train comes along).

Thank you; what really puzzled me was that the upper 5W51 was on schedule ( close enough... 5 late off Camden ) but the lower 5W51 had been showing for some time before that - when that code shouldn't have been anywhere near Euston.

Just for the record, I was mistaken when I thought the upper 5W51 had returned to Camden; it actually ran fast empty to Bletchley.

 

[Belperpete]

Thank you; what really puzzled me was that the upper 5W51 was on schedule ( close enough... 5 late off Camden ) but the lower 5W51 had been showing for some time before that - when that code shouldn't have been anywhere near Euston.

At terminii, the TD can be configured in interesting ways to try and help the signallers. I have seen places where the incoming description automatically generates the outgoing description. And other places where the signaller can interpose the description before the train arrives, so that the train automatically picks up the new description when it arrives. This saves the signaller from having to wait until the train has actually arrived to interpose the description, meaning that he has one less thing on his mind to do.

It may be that in your case, the set in platform 4 was at one point going to form 5W51. Or 5W51 was proposed to leave from that platform, so the signaller interposed it ready for when it arrived. Or as a reminder to himself to put it in that platform. Or the signaller accidentally interposed the description in the wrong berth. There are all sorts of reasons why that description could have been there.

 

[Dave61]

Local to where I live I see *60*, I guess that is some type of block? It just that it is only some lines and 4533 seems passable.



I also see one signaller with a sense of humour:

 

[Belperpete]

Local to where I live I see *60*, I guess that is some type of block? It just that it is only some lines and 4533 seems passable.

View attachment 202481

My guess would be a 60 mph TRS.

There might have been a *60* in the berth for 4533, but it has been overwritten by the description of a train passing through, and the signaller hasn't gotten around to interposing it back in.

With a traditional panel, you could put reminders on the panel of such things, but this is not possible with vdu screens.

 

[rmHawk765]

At terminii, the TD can be configured in interesting ways to try and help the signallers. I have seen places where the incoming description automatically generates the outgoing description.

As far as I am aware, this is known as Automatic Code Insertion and is a part of Automatic Route Setting. The old headcode goes in the rear, whereas the new headcode goes in front, when there are multiple berths. If I understand it correctly though ARS must be fitted for ACI to exist, so it likely doesn't exist at many termini at all.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

My guess would be a 60 mph TRS.

There might have been a *60* in the berth for 4533, but it has been overwritten by the description of a train passing through, and the signaller hasn't gotten around to interposing it back in.

With a traditional panel, you could put reminders on the panel of such things, but this is not possible with vdu screens.

Could also be Item 60 in the WON!

 

[zwk500]

My guess would be a 60 mph TRS.

There might have been a *60* in the berth for 4533, but it has been overwritten by the description of a train passing through, and the signaller hasn't gotten around to interposing it back in.

With a traditional panel, you could put reminders on the panel of such things, but this is not possible with vdu screens.

It's unlikely to be a 60mph TSR when the High Level Goods lines have a PSR of 40/45mph, and the curve between Meadow Lane Jn and Attenborough Jn a PSR of 20mph.

As @Dren Ahmeti says, it's most likely WON item 60. I've very rarely seen TSRs marked in berths, if ever.

 

[Belperpete]

As far as I am aware, this is known as Automatic Code Insertion and is a part of Automatic Route Setting. The old headcode goes in the rear, whereas the new headcode goes in front, when there are multiple berths. If I understand it correctly though ARS must be fitted for ACI to exist, so it likely doesn't exist at many termini at all.

I am fairly certain that I saw it on one of the Southern panels, either London Bridge or Victoria. Wherever it was, it was certainly on a panel, so no ARS.