I got caught with my younger brothers 11-15 zip card on the bus today. I lied to the ticket inspector that it was me and I lied about my age. Obviously he clocked on and then I ended up telling the truth about my age, name and that it was my brothers card. He confiscated it and asked for my details, does anyone know what’s the likely course of action? I didn’t know that it was such a serious offence until I searched it up. I’m 19 btw and my younger brother is 15.
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Caught using younger brothers 11-15 Zip Card
- Thread starter wise007
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Sun Chariot
Established Member
Did your brother know you were using his 11-15 Oyster Zip Card?
- If yes, did your brother agree to you using his Zip card for your own travel?
- It states that it is not transferable and only for use by the named, photo ID'd individual.
- Is this the first time you have done this? If you've done this before, how many times and over what time-period have you been doing this?
I presume your younger brother needs it and, as it was confiscated from you, now (at 15 years old) needs its replacement - paid for by you or by a family member?
Do your parent(s) or Responsible Guardian know that you did this?
- What you did was, strictly speaking, fraudulent.
- If yes, did your brother agree to you using his Zip card for your own travel?
- It states that it is not transferable and only for use by the named, photo ID'd individual.
- Is this the first time you have done this? If you've done this before, how many times and over what time-period have you been doing this?
I presume your younger brother needs it and, as it was confiscated from you, now (at 15 years old) needs its replacement - paid for by you or by a family member?
Do your parent(s) or Responsible Guardian know that you did this?
- What you did was, strictly speaking, fraudulent.
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- yes my brother knew I was using his card and he agreed to it only for the day.
- I’ve never read the zip card and never even saw that written before, I used to own one also.
- today is the first time I’ve done this, I’m at university so I’m rarely in London, today I thought why pay the £1.75 fair for the bus when I can just use the zip.
- replacement will be paid for by my family as I am a part of the family.
- they didn’t know, I told them when I got
Home after it got confiscated.
- I realise my actions were fraudulent
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TfL will prosecute 99% of the time under their byelaws, usually for the one offence when you were caught cheating: you will be fined by the court (means-tested), and have to pay some costs on top; in the wider world, it's generally seen (eg by employers!) as relatively unimportant unless you try to hide it.
They will occasionally issue a warning but I doubt you have mitigating circumstances to warrant that.
They will also occasionally ask you to admit to x similar offences which will increase how much you have to pay but otherwise make no difference.
They will occasionally issue a warning but I doubt you have mitigating circumstances to warrant that.
They will also occasionally ask you to admit to x similar offences which will increase how much you have to pay but otherwise make no difference.
Is there a chance I just get a warning and a penalty as it’s first offence?
Sun Chariot
Established Member
As 30907 explained, your scenario does not have an obvious compelling mitigating reason.
1) You used a non-transferable Zip Card with someone else's name, age and photo ID on. You knew it was not yours.
2) You used the 11-15 age card, but you are aged 19.
3) In post 3, you admit: "today I thought why pay the £1.75 fair [sic] for the bus when I can just use the zip" - you intentionally fare-avoided on three bus journeys; and you happened to get caught on the third of those journeys.
It's not impossible you will merely get a warning - but, to me, it seems highly improbable TfL will be so lenient.
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WesternLancer
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I suspect very unlikely but look at some other threads ref TfL and abuse of these sorts of passes. You see info on the TfL revenue protection policy and under what basis they consider valid mitigating circumstances.
I’m pretty sure ‘this is the first time I’ve done this’ isn’t the sort of mitigating circumstances they entertain.
V sorry as I know this isn’t the news you want.
Do stick with this thread tho as you will get good advice on how best to deal with the situation you now find yourself in and how best to know what to expect etc.
There are only ever two outcomes to being reported for prosecution by TfL. You get either:
- a warning letter (very rare when passes have been abused), or
- prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws in the Magistrates' Court (nearly all cases), and you will be fined according to your income, have to repay the fares, pay TfL's costs and also a surcharge.
If you have mitigation under 8.2 of TfL's prosecution policy as outlined here https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...CCEQAQ&sqi=2&usg=AOvVaw2C7o5kR33C23PisL_RJtu6 you may wish to contact a solicitor to advance your mitigation in writing. This will cost you something like £800.
If a solicitor is an option you're considering, it needs to be one specialising in fare evasion - there is a list we can send you if you want - but as above, unless you have mitigation under section 8.2 of the prosecutions policy there's unlikely to be any point as a solicitor won't be able to sway TfL without mitigating circumstances. We see TfL strictly following their prosecutions policy and they do prosecute the vast majority of cases.
Swedenorer
Member
You are an adult using a 11-15 concessionary card deliberately simply to save a fare. Ignorance of the law is no defence. You will be prosecuted.
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Will I have a criminal record forever? And will I not be able to get a good job after university?
@wise007 take note of this - this is from the solicitor most frequently mentioned on this forum. Keep in mind there could be financial incentive for them to say this because presumably you’ll be paying their fees regardless of the outcome - that being said I have never seen anything but glowing reviews for Manak.
So I need to go to court for this, or will it depend on my response to the letter that tfl will send eventually?
Firstly was this truly the only time you have ever done this? When TfL reviews the usage record of the card in question (and associated CCTV for recent journeys) will it look like that to them? You should prepare some mitigation e.g. testimonials from people who have known you professionally for some time, such as university tutors who can help to demonstrate it was out-of-character. Employing a solicitor can help a lot with this.
This was truly the only time I’ve ever done this. I’m usually at university located outside of London, and I’ve only just come back for the Easter holidays. How important is a testimonial from someone like a university tutor?
WesternLancer
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I think in all of this (esp if you were to opt to pay for a solicitor to help with this) you need to weigh up how much a problem for you in future career having a criminal record for this would be. It's a relatively minor offence after all, and I think it's spent after a year if convicted (which you would be if it went to court AFAIK)
Ask yourself what job roles you are aiming for, what do the professional bodies for those jobs (if they have one) say about this sort of thing etc etc.
This is part of the balancing you have to do now as part of deciding on your next steps
(sorry - I don't know how much weight TfL would give to testimonials from people that know you that say along lines of 'I know wise007 to be generally an honest person and this is out of character' - when set against what they will see as a deliberate choice to avoid paying the fare that you know to be correct - I've usually read on here that mitigation needs to focus on things like ill health / medication that can impair judgment etc etc, but I'm no expert on this. Worth reading the policy that @AlterEgo linked to I would assume)
No, at most a year.
No, as I said, most employers won't be terribly worried unless you fail to disclose a conviction when asked.
A criminal record lasts for all time, you are confusing the matter with spent convictions (when it does not need to be disclosed in most circumstances) and whether it will appear on a DBS check. It will almost always need to be disclosed in the circumstances not covered by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act.
Swedenorer
Member
Read TfL's complete prosecutions policy as linked earlier. The criteria for mitigation are limited but it does set out their approach to warnings (8.5).
I would suggest your options are:-
1. Reply yourself to the letter - our experience is that the chances of you getting them not to prosecute will be vanishingly low. If convicted you will have a minor conviction which is unlikely to be an impediment to getting a good job, although some professions (healthcare, legal, accountancy, wider finance) may prove more sticky, especially where is tough competition for graduate positions. You'll also have to pay a fine, costs, victim surcharge, which will be in the hundreds of pounds - probably less than £500 as you presumably have no or little income.
2. Ask a solicitor to reply - the one in post 11 clearly thinks that they would have a reasonable chance of avoiding prosecution, but you will have to pay their fee (typically a few hundred pounds) whether they do or not.
Do you think it’s worth getting a solicitor?
WesternLancer
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couple of things that may be of use for you
The TfL policy is here
and a useful TfL case - with an outcome of what happened at court from the person concerned - if you end up at that stage, which might be of help
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/freedom-pass-misuse-requisition-to-attend-court.297308/page-2
It depends how important it is to you to try to avoid a criminal record.
Employing a solicitor gives you the best chance of this. (TfL also sees that you're spending money on the solicitor which means you've still taken a financial punishment.)
Very occasionally we see people managing to do this themselves without legal assistance, but this is difficult as you need to "grovel" in very particular sorts of ways. Solicitors such as Manak here (and some others of course) have the experience to know the best way to present your case. Every case is different, but typically you'll apologise and demonstrate how it was a one-off occurrence that is out-of-character, and that means including references from people who know you in a professional capacity and who can testify as to your general honesty.
TfL prosecute single offences all the time. They prosecute tens of thousands of people each year. As has already been said, it is possible that with a well written letter, particularly if written by or with the help of a solicitor, a warning might be issued, but I wouldn’t say it’s likely. But there’s nothing to lose by trying (except money if you use a solicitor).
If you do use a solicitor I would suggest the one that’s already replied to the thread saying they think you have a good chance.
If you don’t, I would suggest reading TfL’s prosecutions policy very carefully, drafting a letter based on that, and then posting it here for us to give feedback on.
If you do use a solicitor I would suggest the one that’s already replied to the thread saying they think you have a good chance.
If you don’t, I would suggest reading TfL’s prosecutions policy very carefully, drafting a letter based on that, and then posting it here for us to give feedback on.
Here’s a draft of my letter:
Dear Sir or Madam,
Re: Incident on 09/04/26
I am writing in response to your correspondence regarding an incident on 09/04/26 involving the use of my younger brother’s 11-15 Zip Oyster card on a London bus as a 19-year-old.
I would like to sincerely apologise for my actions. On that day, I used my younger brother’s Zip card despite knowing that I was not entitled to do so. I fully accept that this was wrong and a misuse of a concessionary travel card.
When I was initially questioned, I panicked and gave incorrect information about my name and age. I regret this deeply. I accept that this was dishonest and only made the situation worse. I corrected myself and provided my true details shortly after. I take full responsibility for my behaviour.
I want to emphasise that this was a lapse in judgement and not something I have done before. I now fully understand the seriousness of fare evasion and the misuse of concessionary travel cards, and I assure you that I have learnt my lesson and that this will not happen again.
I respectfully ask that you consider allowing me to resolve this matter without court proceedings. I would be grateful and more than willing to pay any outstanding fare, penalty, or administrative costs incurred because of my actions.
I am currently a first-year university student studying outside of London, and I am concerned about the potential impact a prosecution may have on my future, especially next year where a record could have a significant impact on my ability to get a summer internship. I hope you will take this into consideration.
Once again, I sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused and for my poor conduct.
Yours faithfully,
In my opinion this is unlikely to sway TfL. They don’t really care that you’re sorry or that it’ll impact your future. You also should not admit to providing false details - don’t even mention it. You need to be asking them to issue a warning letter as an alternative to prosecution and referencing (maybe not directly, but you need to be presenting mitigation in line with it) 8.2 of their prosecutions policy to have any chance.
WesternLancer
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I wasn’t suggesting your case was the same as the one I linked to in terms of the offending scale. More that the process involved and the info given were of value.
I’m afraid from what we see on here TfL don’t seem to be swayed by the approach you suggest.
I can’t think of cases we’ve seen on. here where TfL have not prosecuted apart from where solicitors have been involved. I’ll stand corrected if I’m wrong about that.
If you are determined to try to avoid court then I think you need to seriously consider using a solicitor or at least obtaining quotes from them so you know what that would cost you. We’ve seen three or four firms get mentioned in here over the years by people who have used them. We can provide a list if that would help.
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Ref your draft. It’s a good letter, tho @z444z makes valid points that could be factored in to an edit.
If it was any other operator than tfl I expect it would result in an out of court settlement.
I guess you could send it and see what happens. If it does not achieve the desired effect maybe at that point you could consider using a solicitor, though I suspect there’s an argument for using a solicitor from the start if you think you want to / can afford to use one.
I’m afraid from what we see on here TfL don’t seem to be swayed by the approach you suggest.
I can’t think of cases we’ve seen on. here where TfL have not prosecuted apart from where solicitors have been involved. I’ll stand corrected if I’m wrong about that.
If you are determined to try to avoid court then I think you need to seriously consider using a solicitor or at least obtaining quotes from them so you know what that would cost you. We’ve seen three or four firms get mentioned in here over the years by people who have used them. We can provide a list if that would help.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Ref your draft. It’s a good letter, tho @z444z makes valid points that could be factored in to an edit.
If it was any other operator than tfl I expect it would result in an out of court settlement.
I guess you could send it and see what happens. If it does not achieve the desired effect maybe at that point you could consider using a solicitor, though I suspect there’s an argument for using a solicitor from the start if you think you want to / can afford to use one.
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If I seriously need a solicitor to avoid criminal conviction then who would you recommend? If you were in my position with good career prospects potentially in the financial sector do u think it would be worth getting a solicitor?