Blackpool Heritage Tram Operations Suspended

[Krokodil]

Surely the modern trams are driven by line of sight too. That's normal for tramways past and present. The issue at Sandilands was that a driver lost concentration, wasn't it? Hence a DSD required.

 

[Towers]

Surely the modern trams are driven by line of sight too. That's normal for tramways past and present. The issue at Sandilands was that a driver lost concentration, wasn't it? Hence a DSD required.

My understanding is that there is/will be a requirement to some degree for something to mitigate overspeed events; it was that which ultimately took place at Sandilands. The driver did indeed lose concentration, but I believe this led to him simply neglecting to slow as required for a bend rather than ‘keeling over’, so to speak. A DSD or similar device would not have made much difference there.

I recall something also relating to obstacle/pedestrian detection being mentioned as required too. But, again, there was a statement from the authorities which implied that fitment of these systems was not required on the heritage cars. That may or may not still be the case, of course.

 

[Skymonster]

Yep, the true and full cause of the abrupt shutdown of Heritage operations just over a year ago has - as far as I can tell - never been fully explained. ORR and safety devices, lack of appropriately trained and qualified engineering staff, funding issues, etc, etc - take your pick. And the ongoing lack of transparency - not just over the suspension - is waking me wonder about this latest cry for help.

Heritage volunteers expended a lot of time and effort in the main tram shed, tidying parts of it up, adding displays and a shop, painting… And then they had to vacate the building due to the state of the roof. There were some grandiose plans floating around that envisaged the site being redeveloped into a world-class working tram museum - with, critically, the workshop moved into the western side of the tram shed because BTS wanted to knock down the current workshop. That brings me to another question shrouded in mystery: there was going to be an application for Lottery funding - what progress on that? Its a couple of years since it was mooted. Indeed, what’s happening with the big picture project?

Anyway, after vacating the main tram shed, it didn’t take too long for Heritage to set up in the workshop, and then start opening to the public. Remembering that the overhaul work was going to move from the workshop to the main tram shed (because BTS wanted the workshop site), did Paul Galley and the team get assurances from BTS and/or the Council that they would have some security of tenure in the workshop? Yes, at one point BTS changed the planning application and it only involved demolishing the adjacent parts of the building including the paint shop, but planning applications can be changed and changed again (and seemingly have done in this case). So was reviving Tram Town in the workshop founded on solid support from BTS and/or the Council, or did Heritage just leap in without really looking? If Heritage didn’t ask for or weren’t given assurances, I have somewhat less sympathy - the team might have better used their time to focus on trying to move the tram shed project forward (accepting that there may have to have been a lengthy hiatus in heritage tram operations).

Finally I wonder what has been going on in the workshop since the team moved in. Happenings seem to have been big on painting floors and creating a shop / cafe, but not quite so much on keeping the few potentially operational trams serviceable (especially given that one of the three that were reputedly going to be out during the illuminations this year wasn’t fit to operate). So it’d be nice to know what the team think they can achieve if they retain access to the workshop - I don’t think selling a few cups of tea and some kids toys are going to move things forward in any meaningful way.

The main thrust of my concern is that [again] we don’t seem to be being told the whole story, with a full explanation of what the vision is and where things are on the timeline. And can / will more trams be reactivated, or is two it? Instead, the latest call out is just another give us your support / money to get over the latest crisis. I’ll support Heritage, I’ll spend money, I’ll donate, but I want to know what I give is supporting a defined, realistic and costed plan.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

A rather miffed Paul Galley explains the situation in this video (from 3:20):-

Tramtown

It doesn't seem as if an application for Lottery funding has ever been made.

 

[david1212]

Paul Galley very much has the look of a man who has had the rug pulled from under his feet, and I can understand his frustration, even anger. The Heritage volunteers have invested a lot of time getting the workshop visitable, after they had previously made similar efforts to get the main tram shed more presentable only to find their efforts frustrated by the state of the roof. I seem to recall though that the grandiose plans for the redevelopment of the tram shed into a major museum included moving the workshop into the right hand side of shed, because the workshop space was needed by BTS. If Paul and the team had been given guarantees before they started improving the workshop, then shame on the Council for taking those away - but if tarting up the workshop was based more around wishful thinking and hope…

Anyway, I suspect it almost inevitable is that if the workshop goes, then sooner or later so too do Heritage tram operations. Starr Gate doesn’t have the space, the skills or the equipment to undertake major restorations. Yes there’s enough room for a few heritage vehicles which can be maintained there, but when those trams wear out or develop major faults, where are the next set of vehicles going to come from? Trams do eventually expire, even if not used intensively and there needs to be a pipeline, albeit a slow moving one, of restorations to sustain heritage operations long term. The relatively recent Heritage “Enhanced Weekend”s (with maybe seven or eight vehicles out) are a thing of the past and the best tram fans can hope for under current circumstances is a very limited operation, and even that without a long term future.

The ideal - for heritage volunteers and tram fans - might be to sort out the main tram shed and develop Tram Town into the vision that was put forward a couple of years ago. Will that ever happen? Sadly I doubt it because the money isn’t there. It has been suggested that fewer people will visit a Blackpool without the heritage trams, but how many less? Lets be honest, tram fans are merely a drop in the Irish Sea compared to the total number of visitors to the resort. And while I have no doubt the general public like the heritage trams, and some may even pay for a ride on one, how compelling are they really when it comes to making a decision to visit the town? I suspect most normals, even if they are aware of Heritage, would just shrug and make the same decision to visit Blackpool anyway. So I think Heritage needs to cut its cloth according to the current state of the resort, its visitors and the funds that are realistically accessible. That means just two or three heritage trams running on select weekends and during the illuminations. Even that may well not be sustainable long term without the workshop facilities to properly support an operational fleet.

As to the main tram shed… Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the Lottery provided money or some other benevolent funding was to be found (I doubt it’ll come from the council). But I think that’s where the focus needs to be if the workshop closes, because sooner or later that will be the only basis on which it will be feasible to maintain some semblance of historic tram operations in the town. However, there’s also a lot of “junk” in the main tram shed - vehicles robbed for spares, some too far gone to restore, and a lot of duplication (how many Balloons does a tram museum really need?). I think thinning out at Rigby Road is required and that might even raise a bit of money - perhaps Crich, Beamish or Carlton Colville might take some of them, because they are likely to be the places were ‘intensive’ historic tram operations are going to be realistically possible in the future.

The reopening of the workshop always seemed like a bit of a bodge-it job to me - a surrogate or a stop-gap for the big project tram fans want. I hope Paul’s campaign turns the Council around, but what I’d also like to see is more of a focus on what’s really needed to secure long-term sustainability of heritage trams in Blackpool - and I don’t believe that’s just the workshop.

I have not been to Blackpool since 2015 - 130th Anniversary. OK numerically not as significant as 100 ( Fleetwood 1998 ) or 125 but less going on. This year was 140th Anniversary but even without the suspension would there have been anything significant organised? What resource is there?

Generally Blackpool has changed. Back in 2015 it was noticeably quieter and videos on Youtube by A Walk on the Wild Side and others when they say busy the numbers now are nothing like 20+ years ago. I think all, certainly most, of the small hotels / guest houses I have stayed in around or just north of Gynn square have closed. Similarly cafes used in the streets just back from Central Pier / Manchester square.

The appeal of Tramtown, whatever exactly it encompasses, is always going to be limited but it needs a step change from now. The trams there if too far gone / robbed to ever be operational need to be presentable and accessible. If the entry charge is not modest it will put the general public off. If When it rains they will go to the inside amusements on the the pier and prom or Wetherspoons etc. not consider the Tramtown for an hour or so. Only outside funding e.g. Lottery can bring the step change of significant work on the buildings and the exhibits.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I very much suspect that the future of heritage ops will look like a couple of select cars based at Starr Gate; 717 and the illuminated frigate seem pretty safe bets, perhaps joined by Boat 600. That pretty much covers most of the potential charter market as well as the heritage tour roster. Bolton 66 very much deserves to remain in service too, but I suspect the final number will be very slim indeed.

I am not sure they could operate Bolton 66 from Starr Gate; when I hired it a few years ago ( I have a video of this run on my YouTube channel ) for a full system trip, the only loop we could not include was the one through the back of Starr Gate - we had to reverse at the normal stop. The reason given was that there was a clearance issue which meant that Bolton 66 cannot go round the loop there.

That probably doesn't preclude it from running in and out of the depot from the town facing end, but that would be an operation restriction that they could probably do without having to plan for.

 

[Towers]

Interesting article from the Blackpool Lead which suggests that Blackpool Transport’s finances are in pretty dire shape:

“Almost £500,000 of taxpayers’ cash has been handed to Blackpool’s transport chiefs to keep the town’s buses and trams running, it can be revealed.

Town Hall bosses have lent Blackpool Transport Services (BTS), a council arms-length company, £478,000 to cover its bills for the month, though the finer details about the bailout are being kept under wraps.

It comes after claims that the resort’s heritage tram service was suspended last winter for financial reasons and not, as was claimed at the time, because of operational and safety-related concerns.”

Full article here:

Transport company handed almost £500,000 to keep buses and trams running

The finer details of the bailout are being kept out of the public eye

blackpool.thelead.uk

 

[uww11x]

Interesting article from the Blackpool Lead which suggests that Blackpool Transport’s finances are in pretty dire shape:

“Almost £500,000 of taxpayers’ cash has been handed to Blackpool’s transport chiefs to keep the town’s buses and trams running, it can be revealed.

Town Hall bosses have lent Blackpool Transport Services (BTS), a council arms-length company, £478,000 to cover its bills for the month, though the finer details about the bailout are being kept under wraps.

It comes after claims that the resort’s heritage tram service was suspended last winter for financial reasons and not, as was claimed at the time, because of operational and safety-related concerns.”

Full article here:

Transport company handed almost £500,000 to keep buses and trams running

The finer details of the bailout are being kept out of the public eye

blackpool.thelead.uk

I am not surprised. There's been a lot of orders for brand new buses in the last 5-8 years. Unheard off for Blackpool. Traditionally BTS has traded in the 2nd hand market to balance the books.

 

[Towers]

I am not surprised. There's been a lot of orders for brand new buses in the last 5-8 years. Unheard off for Blackpool. Traditionally BTS has traded in the 2nd hand market to balance the books.

Indeed, I do wonder whether they’ve overspent somewhat in recent years in going ‘posh’.

 

[Trackman]

Interesting article from the Blackpool Lead which suggests that Blackpool Transport’s finances are in pretty dire shape:

“Almost £500,000 of taxpayers’ cash has been handed to Blackpool’s transport chiefs to keep the town’s buses and trams running, it can be revealed.

Town Hall bosses have lent Blackpool Transport Services (BTS), a council arms-length company, £478,000 to cover its bills for the month, though the finer details about the bailout are being kept under wraps.

It comes after claims that the resort’s heritage tram service was suspended last winter for financial reasons and not, as was claimed at the time, because of operational and safety-related concerns.”

Full article here:

Transport company handed almost £500,000 to keep buses and trams running

The finer details of the bailout are being kept out of the public eye

blackpool.thelead.uk

For a month?
What's going to happen for the rest of the year?
They cant keep bailing them out.

 

[Towers]

For a month?
What's going to happen for the rest of the year?
They cant keep bailing them out.

It’d be interesting to know where the losses are stacking up most significantly - tram or bus.

 

[Skymonster]

Seems like the battle lines are being drawn. Paul Galley’s original video four days ago prompted quite a number of people to send an email to the Council, but a cut-and-paste response suggests no decision has been made regarding the workshop and that plans to secure the future of Heritage are being progressed. However, Paul has now produced another video in which he doubles down on his claim that the workshop is going, and that such action will effectively condemn the heritage operation.

Tram Town - The truth and what happens next

http://youtu.be/qXrHuAnz-jE?si=ZqRn4F5C9uQeSjTD

Its all quite fascinating. I want the heritage trams to stay in Blackpool and I‘d like to see them remain operational. But to echo what I said upthread there’s still an ongoing lack of transparency on both sides, which prevents onlookers from really understanding what objectives are being pursued and what outcomes are possible (i.e. how many working trams, where, how, what about the tram shed / potential funding etc.).

 

[Bletchleyite]

For a month?
What's going to happen for the rest of the year?
They cant keep bailing them out.

What will the future of Blackpool Transport as a company be under the new Unitary Authorities anyway? Won't that see Blackpool Council disbanded? Could they just be looking to tide it over until the new authority structure is in place, then it's their problem?

 

[JModulo]

Tramtown now stating closed until further notice. Timing seems to be rather coincidental after the council meeting last Wednesday in which it was discussed.

 

[Towers]

Tramtown now stating closed until further notice. Timing seems to be rather coincidental after the council meeting last Wednesday in which it was discussed.

The council which has repeatedly stated that it is fully committed to Tramtown, I might add!

 

[JModulo]

The council which has repeatedly stated that it is fully committed to Tramtown, I might add!

Reports elsewhere as an electrical fault on site which needs rectified before access is granted again. As I said previously though, timing is all a bit coincidental.

 

[uww11x]

Tram town will reopen soon after local MP gets involved. The long term issues continue though. https://www.facebook.com/Everything...h-representatives-from-blac/1413050634193274/

 

[Towers]

Tram town will reopen soon after local MP gets involved. The long term issues continue though. https://www.facebook.com/Everything...h-representatives-from-blac/1413050634193274/

There is definitely a need to get some serious fundraising underway here, talk of joining heritage museum associations is positive though. It’s too easy for the authorities to throw crumbs when pushed whilst ultimately sitting back and watching it wither, that can’t be allowed to happen or it’ll truly be game over, sooner or later.

In the short term however, good news.

 

[jumble]

Tram town will reopen soon after local MP gets involved. The long term issues continue though. https://www.facebook.com/Everything...h-representatives-from-blac/1413050634193274/

This whole saga seems to have parallels with of the Douglas Horse tram closure in 2015/2016
The nub of this was that Douglas council wanted rid and announced the closure
The IOM government took over and they still run
Then as I suspect here there was plenty going on in the background which was not being made public

 

[JModulo]

Standard has 143 left Rigby Road on a low loader, headed for the East Anglia Transport Museum.

 

[jumble]

Standard has 143 left Rigby Road on a low loader, headed for the East Anglia Transport Museum.

Here is some further detail

EATM gets a second Blackpool Standard as the FTT’s 143 makes the move | British Trams Online News

The Fylde Transport Trust’s Blackpool Standard 143 is on the way to the East Anglia Transport Museum in Carlton Colville for the completion of its restoration. The tram was loaded in the bus yard at Rigby Road Depot on Tuesday 24th February for the start of its longest ever single journey, albeit one not on rails!



The restoration of 143 has been a long and winding road, and one which has meet several stumbling blocks over the years, the most notable of which was in 2019 when on its inaugural launch journey it suffered a major motor failure which led to it being sidelined. There have been various false starts since but in 2023 the FTT and Blackpool Transport came up with a snag list following a joint inspection of the tram. For various reasons the work cannot be completed in Blackpool and so the FTT have continued their positive relationship with the East Anglia Transport Museum who will be able to complete the restoration.

Built in 1924, Standard 143 was withdrawn from service in 1957 and the following year saw it return to action as a Works Car. It had been converted to an overhead line car and was initially numbered 3 before 1972 saw it renumbered at 753. It remained in use by the permanent way department until June 1990 when it suffered a fire and was withdrawn from use once again, this time permanently.

It was retained for possible restoration to its passenger condition but after Blackpool Transport repatriated 147 from the USA it was deemed surplus to requirements. This was where the (then) Lancastrian Transport Trust came in and they acquired the tram in February 2002 and then moved it from Rigby Road to Clifton Road on 13th April 2003.

Restoration work – with the decision made to return 143 to its original 1924 condition with open platform and open balcony (with no other Blackpool Standards remaining in this condition) – commenced in 2005 and it was then moved back to Rigby Road in 2010 with the hope the work would be completed by Blackpool Transport. Unfortunately, this wasn’t possible with other work priorities and so the tram remained stored until a fresh impetus towards the restoration came in 2018 which saw work undertaken at Rigby Road. This led to the tram being completed and ready for its launch in September 2019. But unfortunately, that launch led to the motor failure and since then no real progress has been made which would allow the tram to return to service.

But now in a new partnership with the FTT and East Anglia Transport Museum the work identified in the 2023 snag list will be undertaken at Carlton Colville. Once the work is finished the tram will then complete mileage accumulation in service at the EATM.

In a statement the FTT said: “The FTT and various sponsors have spent over £200k so far on the restoration of 143 over quite a prolonged period of time. This latest move will finally see 143 fully completed and we look forward to a successful launch of the tram in due course at the East Anglia Transport Museum. Updates on the progress of the final phase will be regularly posted on both the FTT and EATM social media pages.”

Tuesday 24th February 2026 saw the tram loaded onto a low loader for Reid Freight ready for its long journey east. The height of the tram meant that it had to be lifted from its trucks as without this being done it would have been too high even on the lowest of low loaders to be transported by the most suitable route. The trucks were then transported on a separate lorry.

The FTT and EATM already have a strong relationship, which has included work to complete the restoration and commission Brush Railcoach 634 into service in 2024. This move has been 12 months in the planning and should give a positive future to another of the FTT’s trams in East Anglia.

143 will be the second Blackpool Standard Car at Carlton Colville with the museum’s own 159 a long-term fixture. It also joins other Blackpool trams, Marton VAMBAC 11, Brush Railcoaches 290, 625 and 634, and Balloon Car 726.

 

[JModulo]

Bolton 66 now moved to Starr Gate.

 

[Towers]

Bolton 66 now moved to Starr Gate.

This is good news - any ideas on whether she is passed as fit to run?

Presumably Rigby Road remains powered up and shunting of the cars within can take place etc?

 

[Leedsbusman]

This is good news - any ideas on whether she is passed as fit to run?

Presumably Rigby Road remains powered up and shunting of the cars within can take place etc?

It was towed to Starr Gate - reportedly due to a private hire booking.

 

[Towers]

It was towed to Starr Gate - reportedly due to a private hire booking.

Interesting - what was the towing vehicle? And did she then run under her own power?

 

[JModulo]

Interesting - what was the towing vehicle? And did she then run under her own power?

Unimog 939. It was then seen later on the same day moving under its own power within Starr Gate depot.

 

[Topmandog1]

This is good news - any ideas on whether she is passed as fit to run?

Presumably Rigby Road remains powered up and shunting of the cars within can take place etc?

non of the lines at rigby rd are powered up and haven't been for few years now, will likely need there own safety inspection if they are powered on again, even heard the points at Manchester were disabled but i have no source other then heresy

 

[JModulo]

non of the lines at rigby rd are powered up and haven't been for few years now, will likely need there own safety inspection if they are powered on again, even heard the points at Manchester were disabled but i have no source other then heresay

They're certainly powered up to the depot, and were in the fitting shop.

 

[Topmandog1]

They're certainly powered up to the depot, and were in the fitting shop.

I've seen 0 evidence of this, all trams have been moved via the unimog in rigby road depot and up to the junction at the manchester, even when 717 and hms were when being taken onto line for storage at starr gate

 

[Harvey B]

I've seen 0 evidence of this, all trams have been moved via the unimog in rigby road depot and up to the junction at the manchester, even when 717 and hms were when being taken onto line for storage at starr gate

754 has diesel capabilities. Could they not use that as well?