Manchester Metrolink: how could it be improved?

[TheGrew]

I have suggested on other threads that a route going down the Oxford road corridor would be well used. Perhaps then taking over the Leigh guided busway to the west. This is all crayons though

 

[HSTEd]

An independent city crossing running in from Salford Crescent and bypassing the Castlefield associated bottlenecks is probably necessary for future growth. It would allow the poorly served lines around Manchester to recieve the same treatment as the existing Metrolink routes - boosting the use of the system considerably.

I think an Oxford Road tramway is a very good idea, but Metrolink has been turning more and more into a light metro with time, so is unlikely to fit with the look the Combined Authority is going for.

 

[The Pelican]

Surely the ability to run both light metro type lines and street running lines using the same equipment is an advantage of the Metrolink setup, just like lots of German Stadtbahn systems with tunneled cores and lots of American Light Rail systems. I think an Oxford Road line could be a lot like the current East Manchester line, but much more popular. There's no need to divide the network into two until a cross city tunnel opens!

 

[Topological]

An independent city crossing running in from Salford Crescent and bypassing the Castlefield associated bottlenecks is probably necessary for future growth. It would allow the poorly served lines around Manchester to recieve the same treatment as the existing Metrolink routes - boosting the use of the system considerably.

I think an Oxford Road tramway is a very good idea, but Metrolink has been turning more and more into a light metro with time, so is unlikely to fit with the look the Combined Authority is going for.

As mentioned that is what the plans show.

However, there is still an issue that the trams need to go somewhere when they reach central Manchester. I can see sense in a junction to the second city crossing to allow termination at Victoria. There were looser discussions of continuing down Princess Street to Whitworth Street where the line could continue to Piccadilly undercroft. That creates a level crossing between the first city centre crossing and this new line. That might be a capacity challenge. The idea of this 3CC is it connects tram trains in Salford with tram trains in East Manchester.

Joining into the second city crossing and then turning into the Oxford Road corridor would work for any Oxford Road service, but then you have even more problems with trams crossing Oxford Street (As it is at St Peters Square). The better option to get to the corridor would be either Portland Street or Whitworth Street for the turn towards Oxford Road. However, I do not know if trams past the university is really the answer. I feel like buses serve us better and linking East Manchester railways to the North Manchester lines would permit the capacity boost you mention.

 

[lowe1409]

I get this would require significant investment but would there be any benefit in splitting the system in two with already metro style lines such as Altrincham, bury, didsbury and a lesser extent Rochdale via oldham being separated into a propper metro tunnel and only adding more tramway esque lines to the existing on street network, thus releasing about half the capacity through the city centre. Doing this could also allow the former BR sections much easier to extend vehicle lengths if needed in future if they're not constrained by on street stops in the city centre where space is a premium

 

[edwin_m]

I get this would require significant investment but would there be any benefit in splitting the system in two with already metro style lines such as Altrincham, bury, didsbury and a lesser extent Rochdale via oldham being separated into a propper metro tunnel and only adding more tramway esque lines to the existing on street network, thus releasing about half the capacity through the city centre. Doing this could also allow the former BR sections much easier to extend vehicle lengths if needed in future if they're not constrained by on street stops in the city centre where space is a premium

I think you could do this in part, but maintain system compatibility so some track could be shared between the two service groups. So the Airport line which will never be more than a tramway would share track with the Didsbury and Altrincham "Metro" services around Trafford Bar.

 

[Topological]

I get this would require significant investment but would there be any benefit in splitting the system in two with already metro style lines such as Altrincham, bury, didsbury and a lesser extent Rochdale via oldham being separated into a propper metro tunnel and only adding more tramway esque lines to the existing on street network, thus releasing about half the capacity through the city centre. Doing this could also allow the former BR sections much easier to extend vehicle lengths if needed in future if they're not constrained by on street stops in the city centre where space is a premium

The question there would be whether Bury to Altrincham could justify a metro type service. Rochdale has street running, as do the Chorlton lines. Therefore, you need the dedicated line between Queens Road and Trafford Bar. IF you gave the Warrington Central line to the metro, and could have stoppers on the Calder Valley line run in the metro, then you may be onto something.

The other group of commuter lines are those via Ashburys (Hadfield, Marple et al), and those via Salford Crescent (Wigan, Bolton et al.). You could find a tunnel alignment that joins it all in, but that is more complicated. It may be that these other corridors would be better suited to being the tunnel, especially as any Ashburys route could stop at Etihad Campus, and any Salford direction could swing through Salford Quays and the skyscrapers around Deansgate.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I have suggested on other threads that a route going down the Oxford road corridor would be well used. Perhaps then taking over the Leigh guided busway to the west. This is all crayons though

Don't you think that the Leigh guided busway on its dedicated section with just a few well-spaced stops does a good job?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Apr 2026 ==

The question there would be whether Bury to Altrincham could justify a metro type service. Rochdale has street running, as do the Chorlton lines. Therefore, you need the dedicated line between Queens Road and Trafford Bar. IF you gave the Warrington Central line to the metro, and could have stoppers on the Calder Valley line run in the metro, then you may be onto something.

The other group of commuter lines are those via Ashburys (Hadfield, Marple et al), and those via Salford Crescent (Wigan, Bolton et al.). You could find a tunnel alignment that joins it all in, but that is more complicated. It may be that these other corridors would be better suited to being the tunnel, especially as any Ashburys route could stop at Etihad Campus, and any Salford direction could swing through Salford Quays and the skyscrapers around Deansgate.

Do any of these aspiriations above clash with the lines that I tend to call "Burnham Rail" that seem part and parcel of Burnham's vision for the future?

 

[lowe1409]

The question there would be whether Bury to Altrincham could justify a metro type service. Rochdale has street running, as do the Chorlton lines. Therefore, you need the dedicated line between Queens Road and Trafford Bar. IF you gave the Warrington Central line to the metro, and could have stoppers on the Calder Valley line run in the metro, then you may be onto something.

The other group of commuter lines are those via Ashburys (Hadfield, Marple et al), and those via Salford Crescent (Wigan, Bolton et al.). You could find a tunnel alignment that joins it all in, but that is more complicated. It may be that these other corridors would be better suited to being the tunnel, especially as any Ashburys route could stop at Etihad Campus, and any Salford direction could swing through Salford Quays and the skyscrapers around Deansgate.

There would be some need to keep some cross compatibility with the existing network as the street running airport line would inevitably have to share with the didsbury metro although depending on what route tfgm choose to extend this line into Stockport, it is completely segregated on the old rail alignment. Small street running sections in Oldham and Rochdale town centres could either be kept stadtbahn style or readopt the older alignment through Oldham and ditch Rochdale town centre though personally Id go with the first option.

Altrincham and bury are by far the busiest and best suited to metro conversion and could certainly attract more passengers, particularly to cross city journeys, if you can skip the painfully slow street running through the city centre. Potentially there may even be scope to adopt faster stock and end line of sight working on the bury section to increase line speeds. All of which I'm sure will help grow the network and it's usage.

 

[Topological]

Do any of these aspiriations above clash with the lines that I tend to call "Burnham Rail" that seem part and parcel of Burnham's vision for the future?

They are the Burnham Rail ones. I assume the vanity of Burnham would like Burnham Rail to be connected by a tunnel rather than just the poor relation of the bigger trains that ply the lines into Piccadilly and Victoria.

 

[HSTEd]

I'm not sure there is anything to gain at this point by trying to separate out a "metro" from the existing tramway system.

I think you'd get most of the benefits from a purchase of double length tram-sets.

Trying to end line of sight operation on the Bury or Altrincham lines whilst simultaneously increasing capacity is likely to get rather expensive, when keeping capital costs under control has been a major selling point of the system up to now.
As it is the tram from Altrincham more or less matches the heavy rail journey time into Manchester (31m to Picadilly Gardens vs 30m to Picadilly for the train).

 

[Topological]

Altrincham and bury are by far the busiest and best suited to metro conversion and could certainly attract more passengers, particularly to cross city journeys, if you can skip the painfully slow street running through the city centre. Potentially there may even be scope to adopt faster stock and end line of sight working on the bury section to increase line speeds. All of which I'm sure will help grow the network and it's usage.

I suspect you are right. That is where I would look to see if other lines naturally join, rather than the Rochdale via Oldham.

Oldham via Ashton might be an option, but would need appropriate consideration given the line between Ashton and Victoria currently carries TransPennine. Post NPR perhaps?

You are certainly looking at the big towns (Wigan, Bolton, Bury, Rochdale, Oldham, Ashton, Stockport, Wythenshawe, Altrincham) within the immediate vacinity to provide a metro. I do think Warrington post NPR is in the mix there too (albeit not in Greater Manchester)

 

[lowe1409]

Oldham via Ashton might be an option, but would need appropriate consideration given the line between Ashton and Victoria currently carries TransPennine. Post NPR perhaps?

Depends, if there is a way you could make it work between guide bridge and Oldham skipping the TPE route entirely it could work. Especially if Glossop/rose hill gets converted

You are certainly looking at the big towns (Wigan, Bolton, Bury, Rochdale, Oldham, Ashton, Stockport, Wythenshawe, Altrincham) within the immediate vacinity to provide a metro. I do think Warrington post NPR is in the mix there too (albeit not in Greater Manchester)

Wigan and stockport are definitely a possibility. Bolton is a little harder given you'd have to mix still with long distance services which stop there and not many obvious alternative routes I can think of that won't be wildly expensive. I also think cases could be expanded by making the tram network less radial making it so taking the metro to one of the major towns for a connection around the outside more viable as expecting people to take a tram from bury all the way to victoria to come back out for Bolton will never be popular.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I suspect you are right. That is where I would look to see if other lines naturally join, rather than the Rochdale via Oldham.

Oldham via Ashton might be an option, but would need appropriate consideration given the line between Ashton and Victoria currently carries TransPennine. Post NPR perhaps?

Going back to the early days of the railways, there once was the Oldham, Ashton and Guide Bridge Railway.

If you want to bring a peripheral area into the equation, how about recreating the "Delph Donkey" and the "Micklehurst loop line"

 

[Topological]

Going back to the early days of the railways, there once was the Oldham, Ashton and Guide Bridge Railway.

If you want to bring a peripheral area into the equation, how about recreating the "Delph Donkey" and the "Micklehurst loop line"

Delph can be in the next round of "New Towns", they will need more than the Delph Donkey then

 

[edwin_m]

If you want to bring a peripheral area into the equation, how about recreating the "Delph Donkey" and the "Micklehurst loop line"

A colleague and I assessed the Micklehurst Loop as a possible Metrolink extension on behalf of TfGM quite a few years ago and concluded it was a no-hoper. There are about five viaducts missing and places where housing has reduced it to the width of a footpath.

We also looked at the line from Oldham as far as Grotton, used by the Delph push-pull, with a similar conclusion. Nobody suggested even considering Metrolink to Delph!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

If you want to bring a peripheral area into the equation, how about recreating the "Delph Donkey" and the "Micklehurst loop line"

@Xenophon PCDGS. Are these actually serious proposals? Never say never, but they both closed back in the day for a reason.

 

[lowe1409]

@Xenophon PCDGS. Are these actually serious proposals? Never say never, but they both closed back in the day for a reason.

So did the east didsbury line. No one serious can suggest it's not busy enough to deserve a metrolink

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

With Rose Hill Marple in mind, being one of the Metrolink routes that have been discussed for a good number of years, the reopening of the onward extension to that line to Macclesfield would give greater public transport options as Metrolink which would serve High Lane, Higher Poynton and Bollington.

 

[lowe1409]

With Rose Hill Marple in mind, being one of the Metrolink routes that have been discussed for a good number of years, the reopening of the onward extension to that line to Macclesfield would give greater public transport options as Metrolink which would serve High Lane, Higher Poynton and Bollington.

Something I've always questioned as you'd also be able to serve tytherington/hurdsfield areas of Macclesfield. It's just whether some of those more rural areas could justify a full 5tph metrolink service.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Something I've always questioned as you'd also be able to serve tytherington/hurdsfield areas of Macclesfield. It's just whether some of those more rural areas could justify a full 5tph metrolink service.

Are you hopeful that the recently introduced Metrolink frequency change to 4tph for the reasons given will change back to the original timings?

 

[HSTEd]

For lines to be converted to Metrolink (either completely or tram train) I'd go for something like:

1. Atherton to Wigan
2: Rose Hill Marple/New MIlls Central - concentrate Hope Valley via Hazel Grove
3. Glossop/Hadfield
4. Local Services out to Greenfield post NPR (assuming any kind of new line happens ofcourse)
5. CLC, splitting with Merseyrail at Warrington.

Possibly stretching to Northwich and Buxton if specialised tram-train stock can be provided along the lines of German S-bahn tram trains.

Over most of these journeys, any degradation of journey times would be made up with a 4/5tph (whatever happens long term) frequency base.

 

[lowe1409]

Are you hopeful that the recently introduced Metrolink frequency change to 4tph for the reasons given will change back to the original timings?

Hopefully it will do. 15 minutes is probably the limit at which I'd want a timetable as it begins getting very awkward if your say trying to make a connection to a national rail service from Piccadilly. And despite the fact tfgm claim that it won't affect capacity, it certainly will. And either way, even 4tph is more service than middlewood or higher poynton could ever wish to receive. It would be far and away the most rural route on the network and if Bolton to bury is deemed too rural, I feel this would be far below the mark

 

[pokemonsuper9]

6. Northwich

Just in theory here (and assuming it gets built), what of the proposed Cheadle station on the Stockport - Altrincham section?

 

[HSTEd]

Just in theory here (and assuming it gets built), what of the proposed Cheadle station on the Stockport - Altrincham section?

Well I guess you'd either operate a Navigation Road-Stockport shuttle service, or just convert that to Metrolink too.
The eastern part of that line may get tied up in plans for tram to Stockport after all. (EDIT: Not literally but there will be a bunch of Metrolink track in the general vicinity).

 

[lowe1409]

Well I guess you'd either operate a Navigation Road-Stockport shuttle service, or just convert that to Metrolink too.
The eastern part of that line may get tied up in plans for tram to Stockport after all. (EDIT: Not literally but there will be a bunch of Metrolink track in the general vicinity).

Don't forget the option of extending it towards hazel grove too with a chord in Cheadle heath. Would be tight but surely a tram would be capable of navigating it

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well I guess you'd either operate a Navigation Road-Stockport shuttle service, or just convert that to Metrolink too.
The eastern part of that line may get tied up in plans for tram to Stockport after all.

Would platform availability at Stockport station and the current frequency of the freight trains on the line section between Navigation Road and Stockport, noting the current single line sections on that line, be two matters worthy of consideration as discussion subjects?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

and the current frequency of the freight trains on the line section between Navigation Road and Stockport

Seems to be 1 train every 2 hours or so (with unactivated paths for more). I definitely can't see the line closing, so it'd have to be tram trains, if the frequency means a service has to be cut to accomodate the freights then I guess that's just how it is.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Northenden Jn all day on 08/04/2026

Train information at Northenden Jn all day on 08/04/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

platform availability at Stockport station

Would be a problem, and I'm not sure where a good place would be to take the trams onto the roads around there.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Seems to be 1 train every 2 hours or so (with unactivated paths for more). I definitely can't see the line closing, so it'd have to be tram trains.

With note of what you say concerning line closure, it is worth keeping that line open as a dedicated freight train line, noting the type of traffic that it carries which take countless lorry loads off the road.

 

[The Pelican]

For lines to be converted to Metrolink (either completely or tram train) I'd go for something like:

1. Atherton to Wigan
2: Rose Hill Marple/New MIlls Central - concentrate Hope Valley via Hazel Grove
3. Glossop/Hadfield
4. Local Services out to Greenfield post NPR (assuming any kind of new line happens ofcourse)
5. CLC, splitting with Merseyrail at Warrington.

Possibly stretching to Northwich and Buxton if specialised tram-train stock can be provided along the lines of German S-bahn tram trains.

Over most of these journeys, any degradation of journey times would be made up with a 4/5tph (whatever happens long term) frequency base.

For 2, 3 and 4, rather than turning into Metrolink, I'd build substantial numbers of new terminating platforms into the area of the Picadilly HS2 station, then do some Borough Market/Londom Bridge style track widening. This will allow reasonable frequencies to be provided with full length trains. The chance to build new terminating platforms is worth making the most of, at least after 15 and 16, the new through platforms, have been built.