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Audio/visual "next stop" announcements on buses

Eyersey468

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I assume you are aware that not so long ago, batch after batch of new London buses were delayed for iBus fittings? It still wouldn't surprise me if electrification delays were assisting with hiding any issues with supplies there as well. Had you also considered that by virtue of being the largest single customer by far with long-term procurement agreements, that TfL may be coming at the top of the tree to the detriment of everyone else?




I think, once you remove the dripping sarcasm, what you're showing here is that you have very little understanding as to how large-scale procurement works. I'm no expert either (there are certainly those here who have more experience than I do), but I do know how long it takes, for example, the landlord of my building to procure and contract services (it's a two-stage process for every contract under Section 20... in theory they have to do that every time a single item comes to more than £250, but largely work on framework contracts in the millions). It can take over a year between first notice and agreement.

As for other industries, may I suggest you look at the energy sector? Or large-scale public works? South-East Water says hello.

This is a deadline that was plucked out of thin air by Whitehall, with little to no idea of what would actually be required to make it happen.
Another thing that seems to have been plucked out of thin air by Whitehall is the requirement for buses dating back to 1973 to have it, why? A 50 year old bus doesn’t comply with any other aspect of PSVAR as the regulations didn't exist when it was built and there can't be many 50 year old vehicles used on regular services. I can understand going back to 2000 as that was when PSVAR came in, but it seems silly to me to insist on vehicles that old having it
 
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markymark2000

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Another thing that seems to have been plucked out of thin air by Whitehall is the requirement for buses dating back to 1973 to have it, why? A 50 year old bus doesn’t comply with any other aspect of PSVAR as the regulations didn't exist when it was built and there can't be many 50 year old vehicles used on regular services. I can understand going back to 2000 as that was when PSVAR came in, but it seems silly to me to insist on vehicles that old having it
In the same breath, why do vehicles with 16 and 21 seats need to have full audio and visual announcements in the name of accessibility (PSVAIR), but doesn't have to provide any actual accessible features such as lifts/ramps or even a need for actual LED destination displays (as they don't come into scope of PSVAR). You can know where you are going when you get on the bus but you can't actually get on the bus or know what bus is coming down the road :lol:

Absolute lunacy from out highly skilled civil service.
 

Man of Kent

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That’s a good design, which I think bus operators should adopt
The regulations require that
The character height of text comprising relevant information must be at least 22 millimetres
which means some attractive-looking designs would not meet the letter of the law, likely including this one (it looks to fail on the destination).
 

DanielTheEMid

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1776084683254.png
Something I have found, Jill Myers, the voice of Stagecoach buses in South Yorkshire and Derby actually talks about using a human voice over an ai, and mentions it is less time consuming as pronouncing things correctly only requires asking locals, rather than having to phonetically spell it and risk a clanker not being able to pronounce stuff correctly.
 

BuhSnarf

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View attachment 202271
Something I have found, Jill Myers, the voice of Stagecoach buses in South Yorkshire and Derby actually talks about using a human voice over an ai, and mentions it is less time consuming as pronouncing things correctly only requires asking locals, rather than having to phonetically spell it and risk a clanker not being able to pronounce stuff correctly.

Whilst I don't disagree that a human voice is my preference, I'm not sure I agree with her reasons why AI is better than a human as the two examples are relatively trivial for AI to do if prompted correctly. Surely the personal, human touch is the bit she should be focussing on.

For example, I very much doubt that tracking down a local is easier for a human than an AI model - is she just ringing some random person from the town and asking how to pronounce the names of towns? Surely she has to build up them connections not to mention that many locals often argue on how to say various town names - take Southwell in Notts which can often be pronounced "Suthell" or "South-well" depending on who you ask.

Also as well, I very much doubt it will be long before AI is capable of sourcing local people on how you pronounce local town names - it only has to type "how to pronounce Southwell" in to Google and parse the reddit article to see what locals say.

As for the second example, again with voice models it's very easy for someone to write a well crafted prompt to do that and then to tweak it slightly to speed it up to fit in 30 seconds.
 

The exile

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Also as well, I very much doubt it will be long before AI is capable of sourcing local people on how you pronounce local town names - it only has to type "how to pronounce Southwell" in to Google and parse the reddit article to see what locals say.
Which is fine as long as it picks articles about the right Southwell.
 

BuhSnarf

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Which is fine as long as it picks articles about the right Southwell.
Agree, but it depends on who you believe is right!

For example I live in Oadby, you ask some parts of the town how it's pronounced and you'll get "OADbee" and others would say "OadBEH." And i'm sure there's countless more examples even more different!
 

The exile

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Agree, but it depends on who you believe is right!

For example I live in Oadby, you ask some parts of the town how it's pronounced and you'll get "OADbee" and others would say "OadBEH." And i'm sure there's countless more examples even more different!
I wasn’t meaning the right pronunciation, but the right place. (Southwell, Notts or Oadby, Leics as opposed to towns with the same name in Arizona or New South Wales). Just to make it clear that I have no idea whether either name appears anywhere in Arizona or New South Wales or how they are pronounced if they do.
 

BuhSnarf

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I wasn’t meaning the right pronunciation, but the right place. (Southwell, Notts or Oadby, Leics as opposed to towns with the same name in Arizona or New South Wales). Just to make it clear that I have no idea whether either name appears anywhere in Arizona or New South Wales or how they are pronounced if they do.
Ah, gotcha, yeah of course! You would hope that anyone writing the prompt would add in qualifying criteria but yeah you're absolutely right. It's also not hard for them to confuse Southwell with Southall in London!
 

ACBest

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Wymondham is a good example of that - the one in Norfolk is pronounced ‘Win-dum’, but the one in Leicestershire is pronounced ‘Wy-mun-dum’.
 

thenextstopis

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Pretty much only the 250 and 350 which aren't even Hull routes, even the 103 to Kirton in Lindsey & Lincoln was doing it today. I'd say complain to them. The more it's addressed the better done.

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In fact I think they are making the hull ones look like this.View attachment 195239View attachment 195240
Can I ask what fonts you used to make those screens please?

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In Swansea, most of the Adventure Travel buses have screens and announcements (although they're not always configured by the driver), although these announcements are almost inaudible for how quiet they are.
The software is definitely a bit dated and I think could do with a revamp. It's functional I guess but not as nice as some of the modern ones on here.
First Bus is really dragging their feet. From what I've observed, very few buses have installed screens that actually work (as opposed to just displaying the date and time). Time is ticking so I hope they get to work!
 

BuhSnarf

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I have noticed recently that Stagecoach have been upgrading some of their older buses with the display screens and they appear to display just the time until someone presses the bell and then it scrolls by "Bus stopping at" but nothing after this.

Odd that this new system doesn't appear to be connected to the ticket machine or anything to get any route data.
 

TUC

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In the same breath, why do vehicles with 16 and 21 seats need to have full audio and visual announcements in the name of accessibility (PSVAIR), but doesn't have to provide any actual accessible features such as lifts/ramps or even a need for actual LED destination displays (as they don't come into scope of PSVAR). You can know where you are going when you get on the bus but you can't actually get on the bus or know what bus is coming down the road :lol:

Absolute lunacy from out highly skilled civil service.
Presumably because:
a) systems to give announcements are easier to retrofit than lifts and ramps
b) they are different types of accessibility needs, for different disabilities.

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I'd be interested to know how many people use buses since the auto announcers but didn't feel confident to do so before. If I'm going somewhere unfamiliar, I research beforehand and use the map on my phone to work out when I need to get off. I wouldn't trust the auto announcers.
Several of the buses in use near us have recently acquired announcements of stops. My wife, who is visually impaired, used the bus services previously anyway, but the announcements make the journey more relaxing and enjoyable. They mean she doesn't have to be constantly using her phone for Google Maps to advise where the bus currently has reached, and can get on with other things in the same way as everyone else.
 
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E B

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I have noticed recently that Stagecoach have been upgrading some of their older buses with the display screens and they appear to display just the time until someone presses the bell and then it scrolls by "Bus stopping at" but nothing after this.

Odd that this new system doesn't appear to be connected to the ticket machine or anything to get any route data.
Some buses (in Nuneaton anyway) have had their screens fully connected now, I am expecting the rest of the Stagecoach Midlands fleet which haven't been connected yet will have theirs done in due course.
 

BuhSnarf

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Some buses (in Nuneaton anyway) have had their screens fully connected now, I am expecting the rest of the Stagecoach Midlands fleet which haven't been connected yet will have theirs done in due course.
That's really good to hear, glad to see there is improvements happen. I'll await the X7 getting announcements soon!

And to echo what TUC has said above, there's certainly many examples of people who are feeling more confident and using buses more as an outcome of having announcements onboard. There was some really nice examples on the video I made on the subject where visually impaired and people on the spectrum / social anxiety now use the bus more often - or more importantly - use the bus independently without a chaperone giving them greater freedom and thus a better quality of life.

Imagine only being able to nip in to town if you can get someone to come with you versus now being able to go when you want.
 

Jon_jpwh

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I have noticed recently that Stagecoach have been upgrading some of their older buses with the display screens and they appear to display just the time until someone presses the bell and then it scrolls by "Bus stopping at" but nothing after this.

Odd that this new system doesn't appear to be connected to the ticket machine or anything to get any route data.
What I noticed on two recent journeys is that the time displayed didn't seem to update until there was a bus stop and the door opened. It had me confused until I realised what was happening. On a recent trip which was from Hastings to Bodiam the clock displayed the same time for long periods because of the extended distances between the bus stops.
 

BuhSnarf

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What I noticed on two recent journeys is that the time displayed didn't seem to update until there was a bus stop and the door opened. It had me confused until I realised what was happening. On a recent trip which was from Hastings to Bodiam the clock displayed the same time for long periods because of the extended distances between the bus stops.
Yep, I noticed this also. I noticed this was when the system would display the time at all times and when the bus stopped it would for a few moments after display "Welcome Aboard." And as you point out the time did not move between stops.
 

thenextstopis

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What kind of display do you think would be the best to have? There's all sorts from dot matrix to the LCD screens. They come in all sorts of sizes too...

I quite like the iBus v2 system that's on London buses, specifically the ones that are the same size as the dot matrix display previously. It means it can fit itself nicely in places without being bulky or anything, although it doesn't have as much information (upcoming stops in a bead map, local connections, the time*) as I'd like.

*Some iBus v2s do have the time; this is not the model I am referring to. The time does show when the bottom bar switches from the route/destination to BUS STOPPING.
 

BuhSnarf

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I think the iBus v2 are decent. Harrogate's 36 I actually like too, but think that is based on the same system. The screens on the Yutongs (Leicester orbital and NCT buses) are very good also as are the ones on the Mellor Sigma's that Whippet use also.
 

robertleic

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arriva in leicester have next stop announcements, i think this was on a 2017 bus

 

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SSmith2009

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arriva in leicester have next stop announcements, i think this was on a 2017 bus

Same NSA screens fitted to First's GB kites in Leicester although these have a slightly different layout on them.

First have route number on top row and next stop on the bottom row.

This is one of the E200mmcs that actually have a screen fitted for NSA but they seem to show CCTV instead.
 

Volvo142

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arriva in leicester have next stop announcements, i think this was on a 2017 bus

Arriva Derby is starting to roll them out too. The Streetlites and the 17 plated MMC's have them. There's at least one Volvo which was them too, but none of the 14 plate E400's which had them from new have worked for years....
 

E B

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This is one of the E200mmcs that actually have a screen fitted for NSA but they seem to show CCTV instead.
Yeah I was always confused about that. I travelled on two YX17 E200MMCs on the same day and the screen was showing Next Stop information on one and CCTV on the other
 

DanielTheEMid

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I think the iBus v2 are decent. Harrogate's 36 I actually like too, but think that is based on the same system. The screens on the Yutongs (Leicester orbital and NCT buses) are very good also as are the ones on the Mellor Sigma's that Whippet use also.
Trent is very good at it, with their Aesys system and Hanover. You even get a different voice depending on which depot runs the route. (All drivers) Two of the voices I actually met in person. (James who does Derby Buses, and Michael who does Skylink)
 

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43055

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Trent is very good at it, with their Aesys system and Hanover. You even get a different voice depending on which depot runs the route. (All drivers) Two of the voices I actually met in person. (James who does Derby Buses, and Michael who does Skylink)
Aesys is very good in that it does the screens, announcments and destinations for you off the ticket machine but it does regually through a wobbly where you need to reset the bus back to the master switch to resolve it.
 

BuhSnarf

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Trent is very good at it, with their Aesys system and Hanover. You even get a different voice depending on which depot runs the route. (All drivers) Two of the voices I actually met in person. (James who does Derby Buses, and Michael who does Skylink)
I agree, the Skylink is a great example with a lovely clear screen and the announcements as you get to the airport in various languages are a great touch.
 

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