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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

FlybeDash8Q400

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Why would they replace deckers with midi mmc's?
Because those MMC’s go onto the 121 and 123. This in turn displaces the full length single deckers onto the traditionally single decker operated X5. Today for example the X5 had 2 double deckers on it. Admittedly there’s school holidays at the moment, but there’s usually at least 1 X5 that is a decker.
 
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NorthClyde320

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Will they be repainted into livery?
Are 191-193 even reliable enough warrant repainting or could Lothian source something more aligned to the fleet, could those StreetAirs be repurposed in some way or is that a conversation for another day?

I wonder if this could spell the end for 936 as it is the kind of odd one out in the LC/ELB fleets (09 plate), also wondered in there are any plans for 496 to transfer to ECB and 464/465 to transfer to LC in the future to have all those batches together?
 

Lx008

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since the reliability of the e200mmc seems to be in question, would a 10.8m Evora bodied B8RLE Make sense?
 
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since the reliability of the e200mmc seems to be in question, would a 10.8m Evora bodied B8RLE Make sense?
I would've thought ECB would buy the shortest Evora to keep with the Volvo theme at least, even the dealer stock ones have all the bells and whistles like Lothians 70 plate ones
 

scosutsut

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I think the whole point of the plan to get rid of the MMCs was full interoperability of the ECB single deck fleet.

Now that that's burst, I can't imagine replacing them will be a priority as it would be replacing one unique type with another, solving nothing.

E200 MMC operators generally don't have issues with them unless they are thrashing them on routes that need heavyweights. And whilst the contracted routes do have some fast running in them, its on narrow countryside roads, its not like they are getting flogged down motorways all day so they should be perfectly able to cope.

Thinking longer term, when does the contract run out, and will ECB even submit a retender?
 

Volvodart

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Thinking longer term, when does the contract run out, and will ECB even submit a retender?
It was supposed to be for 48 months so there would be about 3 years left depending on the exact start date, which was around now.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Thinking longer term, when does the contract run out, and will ECB even submit a retender?
I’m not convinced that they’ll re-bid for the 121 or 123. The 120 fits nicely into ECB’s network so I would expect them to make an effort for that.

It might be better for ECB to consider bidding for the 110 or 111.
 

DunsBus

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A lack of competition rarely improves things. I'd be careful what you wish for.
Indeed. I remember, back in the noughties, passengers wanting to see the back of First in the Edinburgh area. They certainly got their wish in the end, but as to whether services have improved, that's another matter entirely.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Buses shouldn’t be about competition, they’re a public service.
That was the case up until 1986.
 

JKP

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True but that’s easily overcome

I would like to see all East Lothian routes, including current Prentice contracts come under ECB eventually.
Buses shouldn’t be about competition, they’re a public service.
Unfortunately I remember pre deregulation when the nationalised operator in East Lothian could not be entirely relied on. This also applied very much so to the Borders and resulted in all services with exception of the 100/101 at the time being worked only by Borders depots.
 

Lothianbus703

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Given the passenger numbers on the 121 and 123 mini/minibus sized vehicles or ADL100s would be ideal
Yes I think given the entire Lothian group does operate non volvos minibuses such as sprinters (there are some non bus ones already) that this idea would work.
I always think it may of been a good decision if one or both of the optare were kept or even the iveco that used to run the 130 alot, but I suppose standardisation overcame logic and we have ended up where we are today with 191-3 having to return. I always thought it wasnt a good decision to try and use B7/B8RLE's on the 121/123 which proves that standardising the entire single decker fleet on two full size types is not always the most efficient idea, it would also provide an expansion opportunity for the business to go into routes that smaller buses may perhaps be more efficient and suited for.
I’m not convinced that they’ll re-bid for the 121 or 123. The 120 fits nicely into ECB’s network so I would expect them to make an effort for that.

It might be better for ECB to consider bidding for the 110 or 111.
I do think an effort should (and possibly already is made) to make the operating enviroment work as it would be a shame to give up a bus route over an unsuitable fleet being attempted to be used on it.
Although I appreciate reliability in the E200MMC's has been a problem at times.
 

TheEastCoaster

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I’m not convinced that they’ll re-bid for the 121 or 123. The 120 fits nicely into ECB’s network so I would expect them to make an effort for that.

I've yet to try the 121 and 123 services, are they genuinely well used? I've tried the 120 three times (twice under Eve and the last time when it was ECB) and the service level was pretty fine for a local service, it was definitely a handy link.
 
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I've yet to try the 121 and 123 services, are they genuinely well used? I've tried the 120 three times (twice under Eve and the last time when it was ECB) and the service level was pretty fine for a local service, it was definitely a handy link.
I've tried the 121 on a Sunday just recently to visit the Museum of Flight, with only 3 and 4 on the bus the both times I used it.
 

buslad1988

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I've yet to try the 121 and 123 services, are they genuinely well used? I've tried the 120 three times (twice under Eve and the last time when it was ECB) and the service level was pretty fine for a local service, it was definitely a handy link.
I wouldn’t say they’re well used. In summer they pick up a few more tourists/walkers but the busiest I’ve seen it is 10-15 on board; and that was on a nice day after leaving the Museum of Flight. Not many travel end to end it’s more off/on throughout.

An 8.9m E200MMC is arguably necessary for the type of route it takes. I wouldn’t say there’s an issue with their reliability… after all Prentice and numerous operators UK wide seem to find the type perfectly adequate for that kind of route.

It’s just Lothian being Lothian, wanting to standardise and moving away from those type of routes/vehicles (look at the 39 in Dalkeith for example) Once Optare Solo’s and now settled on a full size Volvo.
 

VioletEclipse

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Too many accidents. The bigger singles can't make it round the turning circle at Glenkinchie on the 123 without reversing, which upper management don't like, and there have been a lot of accidents particularly around Kingston and Drem so the smaller buses are definitely needed.
I didn't think they'd want to put 12-13m buses on the wee rural routes if there was a risk of accdents and such, but it seems they did and not to great results. Glad to see 191-193 return though!
 

TheEastCoaster

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I wouldn’t say they’re well used. In summer they pick up a few more tourists/walkers but the busiest I’ve seen it is 10-15 on board; and that was on a nice day after leaving the Museum of Flight. Not many travel end to end it’s more off/on throughout.

Well that doesn't give me much hope, I understand it's a tender route but I would honestly have had hope that it would of picked up in over a year when Lothian took over the service fully, but I guess you can't force passengers to use such a small service.
 

scosutsut

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I'm realising the sheer oddity of this moment, where an operator with a decent sized fleet (~60 vehicles) reinstates its newest vehicles back into the fleet, yet almost sees it as a retrograde step!
 

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