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Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

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diligentdave

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sbrignall72

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diligentdave said:
Should be 150003 & 156472 returning with 156472 then working forward to Heaton

Correct.
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Was cancelled again from Wolverton

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sbrignall72 said:
Was cancelled again from Wolverton
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Having another go tomorrow Thursday 2nd April.

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diligentdave said:
156472 was expected to be released this week (14/03) but has gone back to next week now.
156481 is circa beginning of May.
150003 is supposedly next week as well.
150275 at the moment is due out 28th March.
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Is there a new date for 150275 being released.

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sbrignall72 said:
Was cancelled again from Wolverton

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Having another go tomorrow Thursday 2nd April.

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Is there a new date for 150275 being released.
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Wolverton cancelled again on Thursday
 
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sbrignall72

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Soft Hands

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diligentdave said:
Nothing until Saturday the 11th currently. Should be 150001 & 150222.
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Thanks as always. Do the "post C6" issues with 156420 require a return to Wolverton for rectification? If so, presumably this will go back again once 156452 heads North again after its second visit?
 
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Soft Hands

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GoneSouth said:
What the heck is still being refurbished on these old horses?
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The simple answer is that they require C6 body overhauls to address structural corrosion issues. At the moment you get the impression that 150's and 156's are rotting away quicker than there is "works capacity" to weld them up again and refloor them!
 
DBS92042

DBS92042

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Soft Hands said:
Thanks as always. Do the "post C6" issues with 156420 require a return to Wolverton for rectification? If so, presumably this will go back again once 156452 heads North again after its second visit?
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156452 heading back to Newton Heath today on 5N31
 
Killingworth

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Whatever the issues the results out on the network are dire. We already know of the Ashingtoon line's success with demand for more units to be provided without any extra units being added to the fleet.

On the Hope Valley line this last weekend 2 car 195s were sent out instead of the usual 3 that are often overwhelmed at such times. With Manchester - Euston services going no further than Milton Keynes very many diverted to St Pancras via Sheffield. Net result those wanting the intermediate stations were being squeezed out.

There's a very obvious lack of serviceable units. How much of that is due to over running planned refurbishment work, unexpected repairs, lack of parts or lack of capacity to do routine maintenance?

As far as the users we should be attracting to the railway are concerned it's a major turn off. It's not the fault of the poor railway staff manning the trains or platforms but blaming the government gets us nowhere either.

How many units were not available for service last Sunday and why? Too much down time. Hopefully someone is checking on that. Speeding up refurbishments might make a small difference.
 
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Rail Ranger

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Weren't most of the diverted WCML passengers using TPE and EMR services between Manchester and Sheffield? Perhaps some were using Northern because of cheaper advance fares?
 
Killingworth

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Rail Ranger said:
Weren't most of the diverted WCML passengers using TPE and EMR services between Manchester and Sheffield? Perhaps some were using Northern because of cheaper advance fares?
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They probably were, I used an EMR eastbound service to Dore that was also rammed full after being effectively turned away from Northern's train by platform staff. I know that Northern service only took all aboard at Chinley after an intending passenger told everyone to move up to let them in.

Of course the shortage of useable rolling stock issue goes wider than Northern. They are trying to increase ridership by 30%. Easy if they can fill the empty trains. Very difficult when we all want to travel at the same awkward times.
 
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david l

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diligentdave said:
Nothing until Saturday the 11th currently. Should be 150001 & 150222.
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Dave, notice that the Northern 769 diagrams from May-December are unchanged (AN291-296 in service, with AN297/8 at AN), except that an additional 9th diagram AN 299 is on there and marked up as Wolverton. Does this indicate that there is further work ongoing on the 769's after Brodies have finished with them, or is there an additional unit being sourced? Thanks in advance for anything that you can advise.
 
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diligentdave

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Soft Hands said:
The simple answer is that they require C6 body overhauls to address structural corrosion issues. At the moment you get the impression that 150's and 156's are rotting away quicker than there is "works capacity" to weld them up again and refloor them!
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1775647953482.pngHere is an example of the structural corrosion repairs that have been carried out on just one vehicle of 150275, then you can judge as to how long it takes.
 
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T74

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diligentdave said:
View attachment 201932Here is an example of the structural corrosion repairs that have been carried out on just one vehicle of 150275, then you can judge as to how long it takes.
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That’s looks like it’s just a frame . I asked a question a while back why couldn’t northern have got the 156s at Ely that are rotten if they can go this far with the 150s and some 156s I understand that they can be owned by different lease company’s but northern have units from both lease company’s .
 
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43367

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Such as shame Northern gave up the 153’s which are now stood idle rotting away. They seemed in a half decent state when they went, although am sure people in here could advise otherwise.
They could be used to strengthen services or revert back to 155’s and operate at permanent 2 car sets especially in the Newcastle area where there seems to be high demand, although not sure if they are permitted up there due to the sharp curves, I know some places they aren’t allowed I’m pretty sure they can’t use platform 5 at Shipley
 
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Geeves

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I think the issue was that the 153s required a big investment for bring them up to current standards when it comes to accessibility, of course we have seen it can be done but I don't believe the money was available (at the time) and likely the thoughts were that they weren't needed, they weren't exactly a go anywhere vehicle as far as Northern were concerned and their bread and butter work evaporated when the Calder Valley 195s cleared off a loaf of units to other lines. At the end of the day they have gone on to have useful lives at various ends of the country

DiligentDave will probably correct me but the ones at Ely (the 156s) were seen as too far gone even when they arrived there ten years ago. One of them is currently providing supplies to keep the rest of the NE fleet going.

Either way look at the work 409 required

Always a good one to post again. Another 15 years of these excellent trains I'll not be far away from retirement

The procurement process began August 2023 with notices posted. In February 2026 they announced they were now down to picking manufacturers of said new units. That's the current progress so make of it what you will.
 

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Calderdale Ian

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diligentdave said:
View attachment 201932Here is an example of the structural corrosion repairs that have been carried out on just one vehicle of 150275, then you can judge as to how long it takes.
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Astonishing (but necessary), the work and expenditure thrown at a life expired , knackered 150 that with the 155s and 156s should by now be broken up in a scrapyard but somehow or other is being pieced together to keep going for who knows how long given the length of time it is taking to order already overdue replacements for these workhorses .
And just as well they are kept going; what plan B is there . A legacy of successive governments abject failure to properly invest in railway infrastructure in the north for many years , and Northern's diesel fleet already over the cliff edge with daily short forms , over crowding and a knackered fleet of outdated,clapped out 15X units .
Not helped by the next to useless 195s , hopelessly unreliable with a train builder incapable it seems of supplying spare parts in a timely manner, with multiple daily short forms on the Calder Valley amongst other routes . Came across two solo 195/0 today , both trains full and standing ....one going to form the 1712 Leeds to Manchester Victoria service which is packed when four coaches . Any idea what's happened to 195001 , has it gone down a hole never to be seen again at Newton Heath ; I'm just back from holiday and it's still unallocated on RTT ... it must be 2 or 3 months out of action ?
 
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rattyben

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Calderdale Ian said:
Astonishing (but necessary), the work and expenditure thrown at a life expired , knackered 150 that with the 155s and 156s should by now be broken up in a scrapyard but somehow or other is being pieced together to keep going for who knows how long given the length of time it is taking to order already overdue replacements for these workhorses .
And just as well they are kept going; what plan B is there . A legacy of successive governments abject failure to properly invest in railway infrastructure in the north for many years , and Northern's diesel fleet already over the cliff edge with daily short forms , over crowding and a knackered fleet of outdated,clapped out 15X units .
Not helped by the next to useless 195s , hopelessly unreliable with a train builder incapable it seems of supplying spare parts in a timely manner, with multiple daily short forms on the Calder Valley amongst other routes . Came across two solo 195/0 today , both trains full and standing ....one going to form the 1712 Leeds to Manchester Victoria service which is packed when four coaches . Any idea what's happened to 195001 , has it gone down a hole never to be seen again at Newton Heath ; I'm just back from holiday and it's still unallocated on RTT ... it must be 2 or 3 months out of action ?
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Couldn’t agree more, yet the whole thing is still requiring a Business Case is comical.

It’s all for Treasury and DfT busy work.
 
Killingworth

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rattyben said:
Couldn’t agree more, yet the whole thing is still requiring a Business Case is comical.

It’s all for Treasury and DfT busy work.
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Hopefully the Business Case stacks up because if it doesn't we're - stuffed!

Yet there have to be limits. What will be pruned out to make the case fit?

However further discussion of that aspect is for a different thread, like; https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...cascade-allocations-speculation.295722/page-2
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...cascade-allocations-speculation.295722/page-2
 
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M60lad

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Regarding 195001 I'd love to know why it was actually stopped from service? Apparently it last ran in service December last year before being sent to Newton Heath where it spent quite a bit of time stabled at the side of the new CAF shed but it seems to have moved as I haven't been able to see it recently.
 
amahy

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Calderdale Ian said:
Astonishing (but necessary), the work and expenditure thrown at a life expired , knackered 150 that with the 155s and 156s should by now be broken up in a scrapyard but somehow or other is being pieced together to keep going for who knows how long given the length of time it is taking to order already overdue replacements for these workhorses .
And just as well they are kept going; what plan B is there . A legacy of successive governments abject failure to properly invest in railway infrastructure in the north for many years , and Northern's diesel fleet already over the cliff edge with daily short forms , over crowding and a knackered fleet of outdated,clapped out 15X units .
Not helped by the next to useless 195s , hopelessly unreliable with a train builder incapable it seems of supplying spare parts in a timely manner, with multiple daily short forms on the Calder Valley amongst other routes . Came across two solo 195/0 today , both trains full and standing ....one going to form the 1712 Leeds to Manchester Victoria service which is packed when four coaches . Any idea what's happened to 195001 , has it gone down a hole never to be seen again at Newton Heath ; I'm just back from holiday and it's still unallocated on RTT ... it must be 2 or 3 months out of action ?
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Indeed. In my opinion, there should have been a wholesale 15X replacement back when the pacers were replaced (apart from maybe the 158s). Yet, the 321/9s and 322s were replaced, despite them being more reliable, and younger than some 15Xs!

It’s a similar situation to the Bakerloo line, where they are only now considering replacing the 1972 stock, despite them being life expired several years ago.

I agree that the whole “business case” thing is ludicrous, as it has resulted in some decent trains being binned off, such as the 350/2s and 707s, whereas other fleets that barely work don’t get replacements.
 
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diligentdave

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Peddles88 said:
Looks like 150275 or 155345 returning tomorrow?

Realtime Trains | 5Q17 1132 Long Marston to Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D | 10/04/2026

Real-time train running information for 5Q17 1132 departure from Long Marston to Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D on 10/04/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk www.realtimetrains.co.uk
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No, it's neither.
M60lad said:
Regarding 195001 I'd love to know why it was actually stopped from service? Apparently it last ran in service December last year before being sent to Newton Heath where it spent quite a bit of time stabled at the side of the new CAF shed but it seems to have moved as I haven't been able to see it recently.
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It's been awaiting (all) wheelsets since December. The last ones provided had been overhauled incorrectly so went back to Spain. Since then it's been a useful source of spares for other units whilst the wait continues.
 
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p1ash

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Are the C6s / refurbs due to commence on the 323s? The latest May-Dec diagrams show 36no. in the fleet, with 4no. away at Wolverton for work, so are the 2no. extras actually joining?

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There’s been a few 323s out of service for quite a few weeks now - 229 not been seen since mid Jan, and 218 & 242 since mid Feb.
Understand the transformers have a long lead in, like we saw with 243, so is that the issue, or something more sinister?
 
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Calderdale Ian

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diligentdave said:
No, it's neither.

It's been awaiting (all) wheelsets since December. The last ones provided had been overhauled incorrectly so went back to Spain. Since then it's been a useful source of spares for other units whilst the wait continues.
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Do CAF source most of the spare parts for their 19X units from Spain ? Is that why so many 195s are out of use, issues getting spare parts sourced from Spain , particularly it seems the 3 car 195/1s , and taking a long time to repair ? Given there are several operators lumbered with CAF 19X units has consideration been given to CAF setting up a UK based supply chain for parts and refurbishing wheelsets etc to get units back in traffic sooner rather than months later ? The CAF factory at Newport would be an obvious base ?
 
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