Fratton station. Why 3 platforms?

[Flying Claret]

Hi. Just wondering why Fratton needs to have 3 platforms.
Platform one is used for everything northbound.
Platform two- trains to Portsmouth and Southsea
Platform three - Harbour.

As its a 2 track railway into the city, there won't be any trains in 2&3 at the same time. So would two be enough? What's the benefit of the 3rd Platform?

Thanks

 

[LA50041]

Hi. Just wondering why Fratton needs to have 3 platforms.
Platform one is used for everything northbound.
Platform two- trains to Portsmouth and Southsea
Platform three - Harbour.

As its a 2 track railway into the city, there won't be any trains in 2&3 at the same time. So would two be enough? What's the benefit of the 3rd Platform?

Thanks

The ability to turn late running trains back is a big benefit

 

[JonathanH]

What's the benefit of the 3rd Platform?

It allows for services to terminate there. It allows for trains to arrive, and a second one to follow shortly after.

The track layout is fairly flexible there. I have been on a train from Portsmouth which has passed through Fratton platform 3 northbound to avoid conflicts

 

[steamybrian]

Maybe the loop platform was built originally for the now long closed branch to East Southsea?

 

[Acathater]

As its a 2 track railway into the city, there won't be any trains in 2&3 at the same time. So would two be enough? What's the benefit of the 3rd Platform?

Thanks

Not quite true - if a train (or trains) are busy it could be useful to have two unloading at the same time

 

[Flying Claret]

The ability to turn late running trains back is a big benefit

Thanks. Hadn't thought of that. Does that happen often? I assume it would only be harbour trains?

 

[swt_passenger]

Maybe the loop platform was built originally for the now long closed branch to East Southsea?

The Southsea branch platforms roughly followed the present curve of the depot entry, P3 would be the opposite curvature.

 

[Flying Claret]

Not quite true - if a train (or trains) are busy it could be useful to have two unloading at the same time

So in theory you could have departures at the same time for the harbour and P&S from P2 & P3?

 

[The Pelican]

Remember that Portsmouth and Southsea used to have two platforms on the viaduct to Portsmouth Harbour, and four terminating platforms. A notional Portsmouth layout operating at very high capacity might have a high frequency of trains on the Harbour branch, taking up one Fratton platform in each direction, and extra trains terminating in the Portsmouth and Southsea terminal platforms. Of course, high frequencies arw prevented by the complex of flat junctions at the triangular juction north of Hilsea and through Havant- I wonder if a Havant Flyover has ever been considered, with high level platforms at Havant itself, to allow London trains to avoid the West Costway track?

 

[JonathanH]

So in theory you could have departures at the same time for the harbour and P&S from P2 & P3?

Yes - see https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/guildford - the track and signalling diagram for the various routes and signals.

 

[bramling]

It allows for services to terminate there. It allows for trains to arrive, and a second one to follow shortly after.

The track layout is fairly flexible there. I have been on a train from Portsmouth which has passed through Fratton platform 3 northbound to avoid conflicts

One benefit presumably is that if the terminal platforms at P&S are both occupied, an arriving train doesn’t block everything whilst is waiting for a platform to available.

 

[swt_passenger]

One benefit presumably is that if the terminal platforms at P&S are both occupied, an arriving train doesn’t block everything whilst is waiting for a platform to available.

It’s my experience that the arriving ex-Southampton stopper often waits on the middle line while the previous train departs towards Southampton, ie they pass between the two stations. Mon-Sat all the layover time is at the Portsmouth end, about 55 minutes.

 

[Flying Claret]

Yes - see https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/guildford - the track and signalling diagram for the various routes and signals.

Thanks.

 

[LA50041]

Thanks. Hadn't thought of that. Does that happen often? I assume it would only be harbour trains?

Quite often happens with the southern trains as they only have a short turnaround at Portsmouth so if running 6 or more minutes late they can be on time for the up services (especially ones that attach to a Bognor portion)

 

[Mikey C]

Have football specials been run in the past, which terminated at Fratton?

 

[Gloster]

Have football specials been run in the past, which terminated at Fratton?

Almost certainly, but that would mostly have been in the days when there were more platforms at the Town station. The empty stock would probably have continued to the Town (or even Harbour) for either stabling or to wait hauling back into the carriage sidings. It might have been moved directly from Fratton station to the carriage sidings, but this was a bit of an awkward move as it couldn’t be done directly so I suspect it would generally be avoided.

The three platform layout dates from before 1900, but the third line from Fratton to the throat at the Town only dates from electrification in 1937. With effectively three lines, four at a push, feeding in from the north, it is an advantage to be able to signal two trains out towards the Town at once, rather than having them queuing up.

The East Southsea branch ran from a separate platform roughly where the carriage washer is now. The line was short lived: opened in 1885, it was reduced to a simple shuttle in 1904 and closed in 1914; it was lifted back to just north of Goldsmith Avenue ten years later.

 

[MrToad]

I visit Fratton a fair bit for the football and find the train (from Havant, either SWR or Southern) tends to use either platform 2 or 3 with no discernable pattern, or if there is, its not one neither me or my son have detected.

There have been several occasions where trains have arrived at Platform 2 and 3 within a few minutes of each other. This often appears to be as a consequence of what happens up just beyond Hilsea where the line splits towards Fareham and Havant. It is quite common for us on the Havant train to pause for a minute or so to let the train from Fareham through, and then we follow this train in, and consequently arrive very shortly afterwards (especially if the Fareham train is SWR which stops at Hilsea and the Havant train is Southern which does not).

Incidentally, on an earlier post I made last year about overcrowding, I noted the following traffic at Fratton in a 10 minute window, which included SWR, GWR and Southern services.

• 11:45 on Platform 3 from Cardiff/Fareham/Cosham.
• 11:48 on Platform 1 from Portsmouth Harbour.
• 11:50 on Platform 3 from Brighton/Chichester/Havant.
• 11:52 on Platform 2 from Havant.
• 11:55 on Platform 1 from Portsmouth Harbour.

What I would like them to do, if possible, is make better use of the platforms, especially at busy times (e.g. after a match). It would be useful if they could use Platform 1 for services to Fareham and beyond, Platform 2 for Havant direction, and Platform 3 for Town & Southsea and the Harbour. Currently if Platform 1 gets busy, they restrict access, which means there are lots of people waiting on Platform 1 for the Fareham train, and not getting on the Havant train, whilst those who want the Havant train are helplessly queued up outside.

 

[RobertsN]

(Too) frequently used to turn around late running GWRs from/to Cardiff

 

[Snow1964]

Remember that Portsmouth and Southsea used to have two platforms on the viaduct to Portsmouth Harbour, and four terminating platforms.

There were 5 terminating platforms and a small goods yard. For a while a line at street level continued past end of station building to the navy docks (Admiralty line). The goods yard was closed in 1937 (relocated to Fratton) to enable the platforms to be extended for 12car electric trains. A Matalan store is on site of yard and some closed platforms.

The three platform layout dates from before 1900, but the third line from Fratton to the throat at the Town only dates from electrification in 1937. With effectively three lines, four at a push, feeding in from the north, it is an advantage to be able to signal two trains out towards the Town at once, rather than having them queuing up.

The electrification converted some former carriage lines to extra running line, allowed trains waiting to cross to Portsmouth and Southsea low level terminal platforms to be passed by those for Harbour

The East Southsea branch ran from a separate platform roughly where the carriage washer is now. The line was short lived: opened in 1885, it was reduced to a simple shuttle in 1904 and closed in 1914; it was lifted back to just north of Goldsmith Avenue ten years later.

Two platforms (an island platform) for the branch, long gone.

Fratton station was opened same time (1885) as the Southsea Railway branch. At the time the line was jointly operated by London Brighton and Southsea Railway branch Coast Railway, and the London and South Western Railway. Pedants will probably say Portsmouth and Ryde Joint Railway (which owned the joint line from Cosham to Portsmouth and the section in Ryde)

I believe the station opened with 3 platforms, (so with East Southsea branch was 5 platforms). The red brick station building appears to be a LSWR design as features are same as those in LSWR mainline stations of similar date (Longparish and Wherwell on Fullerton to Hurstbourne line of 1885 and Sway, New Milton, Hinton Admiral on Bournemouth cut off built 1886). The platform edge construction is virtually identical to those on the Bournemouth cut off stations. I think Southern Railway extended the platforms at London end as part of the 1937 electrification work.

 

[dk1]

(Too) frequently used to turn around late running GWRs from/to Cardiff

Suppose that makes sense though to recover the service.

With SWR/GWR having the traincrew depot there also makes it a convenient point for any disruption.

 

[Eastwestjct]

Fratton being located towards the end of three busy routes means with the best will in the world whatever timetable you have there is going to be very affected by late running causing trains to bunch up. Being able to have one train arriving in the platfform whilst one is already in the platform or departing is really useful particularly if one of the trains is bound for the low level at Portsmouth and Southsea. Prior to 2007 there was no ability to turn trains at Fratton.

Secondly pre-covid some trains in would be timetabled to terminate at Fratton in P3 and shunt direct to depot.

 

[Flying Claret]

Fratton being located towards the end of three busy routes means with the best will in the world whatever timetable you have there is going to be very affected by late running causing trains to bunch up. Being able to have one train arriving in the platfform whilst one is already in the platform or departing is really useful particularly if one of the trains is bound for the low level at Portsmouth and Southsea. Prior to 2007 there was no ability to turn trains at Fratton.

Secondly pre-covid some trains in would be timetabled to terminate at Fratton in P3 and shunt direct to depot.

Thanks. Do we know why that changed after covid and now nothing terminates at Fratton?

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks. Do we know why that changed after covid and now nothing terminates at Fratton?

I have the set of 3 May 2019 SWR CWN’s and nothing (of theirs) terminated at Fratton. In the 2016 SX there was one train from Waterloo that terminated at Fratton, but it ran empty to the harbour, and then formed a via Eastleigh service.

 

[Moritzplatz]

Fratton is my local station and there's definitely a need for three platforms, for all of the reasons outlined above. The last twice that I've caught the infamous GWR from Cardiff at Southampton, for example, the train has been so late arriving on Portsea Island that it's had to be turned at Fratton, with passengers from Portsmouth Harbour and P&S having plenty of time to get to Fratton to start their journey.

The big problem with the current three platform set-up is that the station now only has one exit - and it's over on Platform 1. Although the footbridge to Goldsmith Avenue was reopened in August 2025 after lengthy steelwork renovation, the stairs to that footbridge from the island platform remain blocked off at both ends. There are no ticket barriers on Platforms 2 and 3 for revenue protection purposes either.

Particularly on matchdays, this means that if two southbound trains spew out large numbers of passengers onto platforms 2 and 3 at around the same time, then they've all got to cross over to Platform 1 via the stairs, push through the northbound passengers waiting for their train and squeeze through a pretty narrow set of ticket barriers.

To get to Fratton Park, they then have to exit the station and cross the tracks via the footbridge to Goldsmith Avenue, going past the blocked off entrance to Platforms 2 and 3 as they do so.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I haven't read all the above responses, but coming from a planning angle being involved with same, three platforms/lines are a must at that location. Yes, there was (in my time) and likely so now, some overlapping of arriving and departure times of Down trains, which in peak times particularly, would be seriously be impacted without access to a second DOWN line platform between Fratton East and Portsmouth and Southsea.

But also in peaks times (evening peak specifically) not every train could run through to P&S or PH due to lack of paths, and so a termination had to take place at Fratton.

The empty stock would then pull forward from platform 3 and reverse south of the station, and run in to Fratton depot, these moves effectively blocking that particular line to Portsmouth for the duration of that move. Had that been the only DOWN line available to passenger trains towards Portsmouth & S etc, that would have had a further negative impact on the overall number of trains in the Southbound timetable towards P&S/PH.

A PS:

For those who know the Fratton area, there is a fourth road between Fratton (Depot) and Portsmouth and S, under the wall, known as the 'Back Road'.

This was/is used for ECS (empty stock moves) between Fratton depot and Portsmouth & S station/P&S Down Carr sidings/Portsmouth Harbour and vice versa, but there is no physical connection to same from Fratton station platform lines.

 

[hermit]

As its a 2 track railway into the city, there won't be any trains in 2&3 at the same time. So would two be enough? What's the benefit of the 3rd Platform?

Thanks

As has been mentioned, the 3-platform arrangement is useful for terminating trains and for separating out trains only going to Portsmouth & Southsea. But platforms 2 and 3 can also be used , particularly when there is disruption, to hold two trains waiting for a path to the Harbour. On several occasions, with a tight ferry connection in mind, I’ve had to make a guess whether it’s better to stay on the train I’m on or to cross the platform to the other train. Needless to say, I’ve usually guessed wrong.

 

[yorkie]

The big problem with the current three platform set-up is that the station now only has one exit -....

There is a speculative thread here:

Fratton station: not fit for purpose and due a rebuild

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/advance-tickets-leaving-train-at-fratton-when-destination-is-portsmouth-all-stations.272473/ I usually get a train in from the coastway a couple of hours before the match the barriers are usually in use but they open them when the...

www.railforums.co.uk

It's been automatically locked, but if anyone would like to request it be unlocked, feel free to report the first post of the thread, outlining roughly what you'd like to add.

 

[Flying Claret]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Really informative.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I’ve had to make a guess whether it’s better to stay on the train I’m on or to cross the platform to the other train. Needless to say, I’ve usually guessed wrong.

Don't I know that feeling! A bit like queueing at the check out in one's chosen supermarket - how fast is my queue moving....

 

[Gloster]

Don't I know that feeling! A bit like queueing at the check out in one's chosen supermarket - how fast is my queue moving....

You wait until choosing the wrong train means an hour’s wait at the FastCat terminal! One of the ‘joys’ of living on the island.