Avanti shop closures when approaching Preston

[aelius]

Why does Avanti close its shops prior to Preston and reopen after departure. I guess the excuse is crew changes. But do other companies do it. I can’t remember it on LNER but maybe LNER manage to operate with one crew throughout a journey. Or maybe they don’t make announcements.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Why does Avanti close its shops prior to Preston and reopen after departure. I guess the excuse is crew changes. But do other companies do it. I can’t remember it on LNER but maybe LNER manage to operate with one crew throughout a journey. Or maybe they don’t make announcements.

LNER don't normally operate via Preston!

More seriously, yes, with Avanti, Preston is normally where crew is changed over on their London Euston to/from Scotland services.

 

[sbrignall72]

LNER don't normally operate via Preston!

More seriously, yes, with Avanti, Preston is normally where crew is changed over on their London Euston to Scotland services.

LNER do it at Newcastle

 

[Class 466]

Why does Avanti close its shops prior to Preston and reopen after departure. I guess the excuse is crew changes. But do other companies do it. I can’t remember it on LNER but maybe LNER manage to operate with one crew throughout a journey. Or maybe they don’t make announcements.

It’s hardly an “excuse” you can’t expect the shop to just man itself

 

[JamesT]

LNER do it at Newcastle

Services that go beyond Edinburgh often do a changeover there.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I'm sure this happens all around the UK Rail Network on the small number of trains where Buffets are available. Equally so if it's an at seat Trolley I'd guess the Trolley Staff have to check they've got all the correct stock/their cash float etc. etc.

 

[Segedunum]

Why does Avanti close its shops prior to Preston and reopen after departure. I guess the excuse is crew changes. But do other companies do it. I can’t remember it on LNER but maybe LNER manage to operate with one crew throughout a journey. Or maybe they don’t make announcements.

LNER has a mix of crew change locations and some crewing arrangements (usually on busier trains) where there's an overlap of turns (eg. someone might do Edinburgh to Darlington) to avoid completely shutting up shop in the interim on *some* services.

Others definitely have a crew change and the shop has to close up. Its not an 'excuse', rather a change to check on what's left stock-wise, do any paperwork and balance up the till. At some point you need to pause things.

 

[VT 390]

The shop on Avanti services also often closes for crew changes at Wolverhampton on the London to Scotland via West Midlands services.

 

[KNN]

It has always seemed odd that they have to shut the shop for staff changeover, Tescos doesn't need half an hour plus with no tills when the morning people leave and the afternoon shift arrive.

 

[VT 390]

It has always seemed odd that they have to shut the shop for staff changeover, Tescos doesn't need half an hour plus with no tills when the morning people leave and the afternoon shift arrive.

I believe at some locations like Preston they often restock the shop as well as a staff changeover so its probably easier to not be serving people when trying to restock at the same time.

I do not really see the issue with the shop closing for a short time (providing it is suitably announced) as I can not see many people wanting to intentionally go to the shop during a busy station call and it is usually only around 10 minutes either side of the station when the shop is closed.

 

[iamraymond]

My sentiments exactly regarding the Tesco changeovers, there is probably some ludicrous railway specific agreement buried behind it as per.

 

[Ecmlleeds]

My sentiments exactly regarding the Tesco changeovers, there is probably some ludicrous railway specific agreement buried behind it as per.

Tesco isn't a moving 2/3m2 serving area where all of its stock is loaded and unloaded in to carts, nor does it have one point of sale / till / device to process transactions, nor does staff change shifts in the short space of a station call.

It's more than reasonable that on a journey where there's a crew change that the shop will close just before the changeover stop and reopen shortly after while the crew log out / cash up the epos (even if card only, needs to be done between crews), possibly count stock (appreciate not always the case), and make way for a top off order which is to be loaded also in the short space of time that the train is in the station. The staff then may also need to collect their belongings from an alternative location on the train, there may be mess that should be tidied so as to not hand over a dirty workplace to the next crew, and any number of smaller more insignificant tasks that need to be done before the new crew start.

So no, it's not a ludicrous railway agreement it's part and parcel of running a service on a moving train.

 

[AlterEgo]

There are many sticks to beat the railway with but this is one of the most unreasonable gripes I've seen in a long time.

 

[Sleepy]

It has always seemed odd that they have to shut the shop for staff changeover, Tescos doesn't need half an hour plus with no tills when the morning people leave and the afternoon shift arrive.

You just get sorry this till is closing when less people coming on duty than are going home

 

[KNN]

I believe at some locations like Preston they often restock the shop as well as a staff changeover so its probably easier to not be serving people when trying to restock at the same time.

I do not really see the issue with the shop closing for a short time (providing it is suitably announced) as I can not see many people wanting to intentionally go to the shop during a busy station call and it is usually only around 10 minutes either side of the station when the shop is closed.

Quite often they are shut for a long time, I appreciate they want a bit of space for restock, but a "hot swap" would be a much better experience.

I think it happens in first as well.

 

[yorkie]

I believe at some locations like Preston they often restock the shop as well as a staff changeover so its probably easier to not be serving people when trying to restock at the same time.

I do not really see the issue with the shop closing for a short time (providing it is suitably announced) as I can not see many people wanting to intentionally go to the shop during a busy station call and it is usually only around 10 minutes either side of the station when the shop is closed.

Supermarket analogies are generally only good for amusement (and perhaps moral) purposes, rather than serious operational comparisons with the railways.

However, if we are going to go down that road, a comparison would perhaps be with a particular counter closing temporarily for a staff changeover.

In my opinion it wouldn't be a valid comparison with the whole shop closing temporarily.

 

[mmh]

It’s hardly an “excuse” you can’t expect the shop to just man itself

It's not an "excuse," but it is ridiculous. It's a Virgin-ism, when they started doing it they were open about why - a stock take before a change of staff.

 

[yorkie]

But do other companies do it.

Perhaps not as noticeable, but yes.

Certainly on XC there would be a pause in catering at places like Leeds, Birmingham etc.
Usually it's a trolley, rather than a 'shop', but I did see the old Avanti shop staffed on an ex-Avanti set the other week.

 

[VT 390]

Quite often they are shut for a long time, I appreciate they want a bit of space for restock, but a "hot swap" would be a much better experience.

In my experience it is never longer than around 15-20 minutes, but I appreciate that this will not always be the case.

I think it happens in first as well.

Yes it does happen in first class which I have found a bit frustrating when travelling from Coventry/Birmingham International to Crewe as this is well over an hour when the full offering would usually be provided but due to staff changing at Wolverhampton only drinks/snacks have been available. This is something I really wish Avanti would advertise as try to avoid certain services where this is the case.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Apr 2026 ==

Perhaps not as noticeable, but yes.

Certainly on XC there would be a pause in catering at places like Leeds, Birmingham etc.
Usually it's a trolley, rather than a 'shop', but I did see the old Avanti shop staffed on an ex-Avanti set the other week.

At least on Avanti its rare for the shop not to reopen where as on Cross Country its not uncommon for no catering to be provided after the change over even when it has been announced as such.

 

[D1537]

Yes, LNER do it at Newcastle on their Scottish services but it is always announced clearly as such ("the buffet will be closing in 10 minutes and will reopen after Newcastle"), I'm pretty sure people can live with not getting a coffee for 20 minutes.

 

[Taunton]

It has always seemed odd that they have to shut the shop for staff changeover

Been like this back to BR days, when the buffet commonly closed half an hour or more before final arrival, announced as "to cash up". I remember the timetable from Reading to Paddington used to show the buffet symbol over all the incoming long distance expresses, where in fact pretty much none of them were still open by that stage.

 

[Archvile]

The Edinburgh services usually swap at Wolverhampton, because they run via the West Mids.

Glasgows are a roll of the dice... Some trains will have a crew change at Preston, others they work the full length Euston - Glasgow.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Been like this back to BR days, when the buffet commonly closed half an hour or more before final arrival, announced as "to cash up".

It can be shorter now, as the electronic systems do the stocktaking as you go and as many are card only there is usually no actual cash to count.

 

[tfw756rider]

Usually it's a trolley, rather than a 'shop', but I did see the old Avanti shop staffed on an ex-Avanti set the other week.

Yes, CrossCountry (XC) are just using the shops on the ex-Avanti 221s until they receive their XC refurbishments.

I was on an ex-Avanti and "native XC" Voyager combo once, and I think one catering announcement was made for the shop in the ex-Avanti unit, and another for the trolley in the "native XC" unit

 

[Noseygit]

It’s hardly an “excuse” you can’t expect the shop to just man itself

Can we tell that to the supermarkets which are constantly closing all the human interactive checkouts and making us scan our own please

 

[CyrusWuff]

Yes, LNER do it at Newcastle on their Scottish services but it is always announced clearly as such ("the buffet will be closing in 10 minutes and will reopen after Newcastle"), I'm pretty sure people can live with not getting a coffee for 20 minutes.

On Northbound Leeds services, I've experienced staff shutting up shop (and clearing mugs, etc from First Class) around Newark, around 75 minutes in to a two hour journey.

 

[flitwickbeds]

It has always seemed odd that they have to shut the shop for staff changeover, Tescos doesn't need half an hour plus with no tills when the morning people leave and the afternoon shift arrive.

In a supermarket the new staff would simply login to a new checkout (probably with a new cash float) and let their colleagues finish up at another checkout, so the comparison is invalid.

On Eurostar between London and Amsterdam this week there were similar announcements before Brussels that catering was now unavailable and that it would reopen after we departed Brussels. There was also a separate announcement that the crew would change after Brussels, so this ties in with the reason stated.

Can we tell that to the supermarkets which are constantly closing all the human interactive checkouts and making us scan our own please

It's just progress - we no longer have supermarkets where the shopkeeper fetches our goods for us, this is no different. I'd rather have the option to do it myself and bypass Doris chatting for 20 minutes to the checkout operator.

 

[riceuten]

My sentiments exactly regarding the Tesco changeovers, there is probably some ludicrous railway specific agreement buried behind it as per.

Just waiting for someone to advocate staffing the shops with robots

 

[Acathater]

It's a crew change and shop restock both requiring the till to be balanced.

 

[styles]

There are many sticks to beat the railway with but this is one of the most unreasonable gripes I've seen in a long time.

More or less unreasonable than complaining about the train manager saying, "My name is Paul", at the start of a post-departure announcement?