My reading too. This war is going disastrously for America and there isn’t even broad support for it at home. Where’s all the Support Our Troops stuff? No, this is a farce and a deadly one at that. Couple more war crimes committed in the last few days too.
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Thoughts on the Trump presidency
- Thread starter Gloster
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RailUK Forums
I don’t think Vance wants any part in what’s going on now. He’s a man that’s trying to hide behind the parapet as low as possible. Trump is going to ride this one right over the cliff while pushing as many people off in front of him as possible to distract from his own actions.
I’m going to take a punt here and predict that Hegseth gets sacked in a couple of weeks time, and if he does along with the others, I hope that Trump stitches him up and doesn’t give him a presidential pardon…
brad465
Veteran Member
The only way the US can be free of "forever wars" is to rethink its relationship with Israel. They are at the centre of almost every war since the turn of the century; Netanyahu is on record trying to big up WMDs in Iraq as well as the well-known Iran rhetoric. Even Afghanistan can be linked back, given one of the motives for 9/11 was US support for Israel. I don't know what a better relationship looks like, but allowing occupation and apartheid towards Palestinians and their land, along with constantly bombing all your neighbours, is not a sustainable nor sensible relationship.
The US right now has evangelical nutters who believe in the rapture and have this bizarre vision of how history needs to play out to see Jesus come back, kill the Jews and everyone goes to heaven. Or something.
This plays a big part in what's going on and I don't fully understand it. Nor likely does the average American, including some MAGA supporters who only supported Trump to deport non-whites.
This plays a big part in what's going on and I don't fully understand it. Nor likely does the average American, including some MAGA supporters who only supported Trump to deport non-whites.
brad465
Veteran Member
Quite a few might believe it, but I'm willing to bet the ones who are preaching it do not believe this and are using this to con those who follow them into supporting their otherwise immoral wars/behaviour. This is far more likely to garner support than saying "you're going to war to make me rich and keep me out of jail."
As a Christian who has actually read my Bible, there's a lot of assumptions made to get to the "logic" used.
A lot of it is based on the fact that there's often number meanings within the bible. However, whilst they might be able to be used to understand that the time you're in might be near the end of the world, there's no certainty that:
a) you are, you could be miss reading it
b) that you are acting in a way which brings the end closer (OK maybe if you're a president with nuclear launch codes)
The main things the bible says is are:
- the end will happen
- there'll be people saying that it's happening, even when it's not
- we don't know when it will happen, just that things will look bad before it happens (and much of what is said is describing the sort of bag things which might happen)
One of the things I would warn about is that often prophecy in the bible is hard to understand the timings, as anyone taking about future events isn't sure if the order.
It's like trying to explain mountain ranges, you are likely to talk about the prominent peaks (future events) rather than in distance order.
This may result in someone looking from a different position seeing the same peaks (maybe even some by looking backwards and possibly even the one they are stood on) however not being sure that they can see everything or even if what looks like a peak behind might also be the disruption of another peak ahead (even if history didn't repeat itself it often rhymes!)
martin butler
Member
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Well, I think the rest of the sane world need to step away from Trumps insane actions, and wait for his fall,
We need to re-consider our alliance's that must include the end of Nato, the European nations, and those who support us, should just collapse it, leaving only the US, Hungary and Slovenia,
A new, Pan European organisation, along with Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, etc can then set up its own mutual support organisation, minus those three countries, As the US will not be a member, they can be asked to remove their bases,and the members can decide their own military orders, hopefully with European manufacturers, Ukraine should be included in this new organisation, that would open up the full support of Ukraine, by the European forces, on both land and air, to Holt Russia, then roll it back to its own borders,
We need to re-consider our alliance's that must include the end of Nato, the European nations, and those who support us, should just collapse it, leaving only the US, Hungary and Slovenia,
A new, Pan European organisation, along with Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, etc can then set up its own mutual support organisation, minus those three countries, As the US will not be a member, they can be asked to remove their bases,and the members can decide their own military orders, hopefully with European manufacturers, Ukraine should be included in this new organisation, that would open up the full support of Ukraine, by the European forces, on both land and air, to Holt Russia, then roll it back to its own borders,
Gloster
Veteran Member
As you correctly say, Vance is doing his best to distance himself from the current shambles, but such is the state of Trump’s health and sanity that he may have to take over whether he likes it or not. He then has to find a policy that minimises the damage (to him, to hell with everyone else), but doesn’t go so far that too many people start asking why he didn’t do something earlier.
It was more Vance’s long-term behaviour that I was thinking of. I suspect that he will adopt even more isolationist, hostile to Europe policies, possibly using our lack of enthusiasm for the recent mess as a pretext.
Much like our own inexhaustible supply of mediocre hire & fire football managers, Trump will have an endless supply of orange-nosing lemmings queueing for their 15 minutes of power. The insatiable ego will be fed by increasingly undesirable characters.
Yes I don’t think he’d be a friend of Europe particularly, he seems to be under the impression that it’s fallen to woke ideology and Islam. That said, a few years ago he thought this about Trump:
So it’s hard to know what he really thinks, other than how can I make it to the very top?
If Vance was in power now it wouldn’t be great, especially for Ukraine. It would I believe be calmer though.
Big Sam for secretary of war!
martin butler
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The only hope for the US, is if Trump, and his minions do something really stupid that it rebounds on them, and the sane majority are forced to stop sitting on their hands, It will of course mean large groups of people taking on Trumps goons, and his enablers, But how would it come about?
scenereo 1 Trump calls the mid-terms results illegal, and orders Vance and the supreme court to not seat any Democratic senators, orders Ice onto the streets to put down any protest with lethal force, The people rebel with overwhelming force, Ice open fire killing protesters, then get attacked by armed mobs, this escalates into civil war, the Army are ordered out, but are told to stand down by the generals, who are mindful of what might happen when its over, and they face trial for war crimes,
Scenereo 2 Trump tries to call a state of emergency to prevent the mid terms vote, but governors ignore it, still call the elections, Trump orders the immediate arrest of every governor who defies him, and calls out the army.
scenereo 1 Trump calls the mid-terms results illegal, and orders Vance and the supreme court to not seat any Democratic senators, orders Ice onto the streets to put down any protest with lethal force, The people rebel with overwhelming force, Ice open fire killing protesters, then get attacked by armed mobs, this escalates into civil war, the Army are ordered out, but are told to stand down by the generals, who are mindful of what might happen when its over, and they face trial for war crimes,
Scenereo 2 Trump tries to call a state of emergency to prevent the mid terms vote, but governors ignore it, still call the elections, Trump orders the immediate arrest of every governor who defies him, and calls out the army.
dorsetdesiro
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He has already alienated most of the world, leaders especially in Europe & Japan have turned away from him. He is losing allies rapidly as Viktor Orban, if the polls are right, looks set to lose the Hungarian election which will be a blow, big or small however still a blow, to Trump.
Orban's loss likely could cause a dominio effect in future elections in countries with Putin-Trump allies.
The curtains are definitely closing on him, it is a matter of when and we will get there also at least this Trump insanity would not be for forever.
Orban's loss likely could cause a dominio effect in future elections in countries with Putin-Trump allies.
The curtains are definitely closing on him, it is a matter of when and we will get there also at least this Trump insanity would not be for forever.
Any attempt to cancel or otherwise postpone the mid-terms could back-fire spectacularly but I don't think it will lead to undue acts of violence. There maybe heavy levels of non-cooperation and defiance at several levels. Dealing with it by sending in para-militaries would be met with a whole range of demonstration, very much depending on the area and the local demographic. We shall see.
Gloster
Veteran Member
When your ego won’t stand humiliation/you believe God wants you to do it/your bank balance might suffer, you’ll take any way out. I personally have no doubt that Trump and Co. would try anything to stay in power and in the money. You cannot judge what they might or might not do by any previous standards: if they reckon that something is the best way to keep themselves in power, they’ll do it.
My hope is that he’s bitten so much off with this sojourn into the Middle East that some of his attention will be taken up with that rather than him increasingly finding ways to put his fingers on the scales with the upcoming mid terms.
With his increasingly erratic behaviour and visible decline in health, I’m not sure that he’s still got the mental acuity to keep all of these plates spinning for much longer?
Shouting at things and throwing his weight around seems to have finally hit reality.
Killingworth
Established Member
There are no simple options that offer any prospect of a peaceful future that favours the US and Persian Gulf.
Civil war in the heavily armed and polarised US is an increasingly real possibility.
Civil disturbances short of a civil war are a real danger.
Replacing Trump with Vance may seem desirable but what then? He may be less impolite but could he control the MAGA hard-core that would blame him for any part in overthrowing Trump's legacy however achieved?
But that's a long way from where we are now. Trump orders his armed forces to reduce Iran to the stone age? Do they accept the command - or stage a military coup to prevent it? Blood will flow either way.
Stalemate. European, African, Asian, other American and Australasian countries tell him to go to hell and accept an Iranian toll system to pass through the Strait paid in euros or yuan. Oil not to be traded in $ either, so a win to Iran!
NATO? We're on our own. Article 5 was only invoked once. Can we really say the state of Afghanistan attacked a NATO state rather than individuals from the Gulf with a tenuous link? The US saw the real-time fall of the Twin Towers and chose to wreak it's revenge on a far away nation it never understood. A sympathetic world watched too and NATO agreed to support. Was that defensive or offensive? With hindsight many will say we should have stood back.Trump seems to have got that into his head as a precedent.
Civil war in the heavily armed and polarised US is an increasingly real possibility.
Civil disturbances short of a civil war are a real danger.
Replacing Trump with Vance may seem desirable but what then? He may be less impolite but could he control the MAGA hard-core that would blame him for any part in overthrowing Trump's legacy however achieved?
But that's a long way from where we are now. Trump orders his armed forces to reduce Iran to the stone age? Do they accept the command - or stage a military coup to prevent it? Blood will flow either way.
Stalemate. European, African, Asian, other American and Australasian countries tell him to go to hell and accept an Iranian toll system to pass through the Strait paid in euros or yuan. Oil not to be traded in $ either, so a win to Iran!
NATO? We're on our own. Article 5 was only invoked once. Can we really say the state of Afghanistan attacked a NATO state rather than individuals from the Gulf with a tenuous link? The US saw the real-time fall of the Twin Towers and chose to wreak it's revenge on a far away nation it never understood. A sympathetic world watched too and NATO agreed to support. Was that defensive or offensive? With hindsight many will say we should have stood back.Trump seems to have got that into his head as a precedent.
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Annetts key
Established Member
Not the solution to all of the problems, but restricting the trade of weapons or parts that can be used for weapons to Israel would be a start. By that, I mean, all countries that help or trade with Israel need to do this.
Also, the flow of money or other non-food support to Israel needs to be controlled.
Both Israel and the U.S.A. need to improve their democratic systems, both now fall far short compared to the better systems in use in parts of Europe.
Politics in the U.S.A. needs to be cleaned up. One of many reforms would include; that it's illegal for money from outside the U.S.A. to be used for any political purpose. Same with Israel.
If counties are kicking the U.S. out, keep in mind that it's normally the host country that pays for the base, either fully, or partly. My view is that the U.S.A. should be given 24 hours to remove ALL it's personnel. And permission to transport any equipment is denied, so that the U.S.A. has to leave all their equipment, spares, weapons, kit, everything behind.
brad465
Veteran Member
Right, it's as clear as day now that Trump is just getting even more insane, based on his latest Truth social rant:
www.bbc.co.uk
Trump issues expletive-laden threat to Iran demanding Strait of Hormuz be opened
In a post on social media, the US president says in Iran “Tuesday will be Power Plant Day, and Bridge Day, all wrapped up in one” if the key shipping lane is not reopened.
www.bbc.co.uk
Right, it's as clear as day now that Trump is just getting even more insane, based on his latest Truth social rant:
Trump issues expletive-laden threat to Iran demanding Strait of Hormuz be opened
In a post on social media, the US president says in Iran “Tuesday will be Power Plant Day, and Bridge Day, all wrapped up in one” if the key shipping lane is not reopened.
He does appear to be unraveling somewhat at the moment.
Every time I think rock bottom has been reached, they manage to find some way to keep digging.
At this point, Satan is banging on the ceiling telling them to keep the noise down.
Gloster
Veteran Member
It seems to be approaching the point where he will do something in public that can’t be explained away and will force others to do something.
They will have to choose between continuing to support him, which will be so obviously the wrong decision that their future prospects will be seriously compromised, or risk his wrath by acting.
I have no doubt that they will be looking for any way that they can avoid invoking the 25th Amendment, but unless he drops dead they may have no choice at some point.
They will have to choose between continuing to support him, which will be so obviously the wrong decision that their future prospects will be seriously compromised, or risk his wrath by acting.
I have no doubt that they will be looking for any way that they can avoid invoking the 25th Amendment, but unless he drops dead they may have no choice at some point.
They've already faked one assassination attempt (allegedly), maybe the next fake one won't go to plan...
To quote the infamous Dril:Right, it's as clear as day now that Trump is just getting even more insane, based on his latest Truth social rant:
Trump issues expletive-laden threat to Iran demanding Strait of Hormuz be opened
In a post on social media, the US president says in Iran “Tuesday will be Power Plant Day, and Bridge Day, all wrapped up in one” if the key shipping lane is not reopened.
and another thing: im not mad. please dont put in the newspaper that i got mad.
martin butler
Member
- Joined
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- 883
I think someone is going to have another go at him.
Very well summed up
Saying, don't make me have to come up there and grab you
Purple Train
Established Member
You couldn't make it up, could you?Right, it's as clear as day now that Trump is just getting even more insane, based on his latest Truth social rant:
Trump issues expletive-laden threat to Iran demanding Strait of Hormuz be opened
In a post on social media, the US president says in Iran “Tuesday will be Power Plant Day, and Bridge Day, all wrapped up in one” if the key shipping lane is not reopened.
And is there something I'm missing about the "Praise be to Allah"?
Satan is actually either hoping Trump stays alive for many more years as he doesn't want him bringing down the tone in hell, or getting some of the extra hot pokers ready!
But yes Trump seems to be getting more unhinged by the day, and I didn't think that was possible.
I've also seen a news story where he wants funds to reopen Alcatraz, you couldn't make it up.