norbitonflyer
Established Member
Was this an automated announcement?
Maybe "coach" is the physical thing and "carriage" is a unit of length?
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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates
- Thread starter WWTownEnth
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Maybe "coach" is the physical thing and "carriage" is a unit of length?
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Peter Sarf
Established Member
Somewhere, maybe a 730 ?, I have heard the word "car" used.
Big Jumby 74
Established Member
Deleted. My comment out of context.
Was going to say the term 'car' was the norm in internal circles in my time, but if this has found its way in to the public facing systems of today, I wouldn't like to guess!
Was going to say the term 'car' was the norm in internal circles in my time, but if this has found its way in to the public facing systems of today, I wouldn't like to guess!
I've not found them to be especially unreliable. Personally I assume any train formed of a unit with only one toilet will have no toilet. I can't be the only person that thinks this way.
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I wont miss this at all. As I mentioned in another thread, hopefully I won't have to suffer SWR for the foreseeable future.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
701s have two toilets. What are the odds both will be out of action at the same time?
I don't travel that often on 701s but I have certainly been on one where both toilets were out of action.
I know they have two. They are rarely both defective but I have seen it happen.
spark001uk
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I do travel on them often, and it's concerning for a class this new that I've seen both of them out of use several times now.
FrontSideBus
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The problem I had was one of the toilets was out of use, I couldn't be bothered walking all the way to the other end of this huge train and back so I just used the facilities when I got off!
Do they only have 2 toilets on a 10 car train ?
OneTrackMinded
Member
Yes. Anymore and it would take up too much standing/seating space. They are metro suburban trains after all.
Big Jumby 74
Established Member
They, the 701 toilets, are also of a new design for the SW network. Previously any train of recent times, 458, 444, 450 etc, has to visit a CET (Controlled Emission Toilet) discharge point to have their tank contents emptied and dealt with at least once every 48 hours in the plan, which is one reason unit diagramming in todays world has become more complicated than it was when toilet waste was simply dumped on the track every flush (VEP's, CIG's etc etc).
There are only a handful of CET discharge points on the network, and these are largely within depots. Bare in mind many unit diagrams do not see a depot for two/three days, as per above.
The benefit of the new chemical toilets on the 701's, is that the waste can be dealt with to a large degree in the tanks under the unit, and so visits to depot for CET discharge will in theory be far fewer. I had heard once every three to four weeks would be sufficient, but what the situation is today, now the units are up and running, I do not know?
But in essence, the idea was/is that units could stay in service for far longer between depot visits, thus freeing up more depot time for other maintenance initiatives etc.
Things may well have moved on, so apologies if I am now out of date....
They were largely ordered to replace the 455/456's which had no toilets at all.
43096
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They are outer-suburban units too, given their use on the Reading line.
wastedlife
Member
I live nearest Thames Ditton, and since the 701s have become commonplace on the Hampton Courts, I have travelled on them regularly.
I frequently find the toilets both to be defective - far higher incidence of this on the 701s than on the Desiro fleet. "Rare" is not the word I would use to describe this occurence.
I was thinking they had accessible then a couple of small space saver toilets
Goldfish62
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And it's increasingly common for all four toilets on a pair of 458/4s to be out of order.
Suggests SWR cutting back on toilets maintenance.
Big Jumby 74
Established Member
They were ordered specifically to replace all 455, 456, 458 & 707 (total 742 cars), hence 701 total = 750 cars.
bb21
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Yes, every 45 days iirc for CET, but every 48 hours for tanking.They, the 701 toilets, are also of a new design for the SW network. Previously any train of recent times, 458, 444, 450 etc, has to visit a CET (Controlled Emission Toilet) discharge point to have their tank contents emptied and dealt with at least once every 48 hours in the plan, which is one reason unit diagramming in todays world has become more complicated than it was when toilet waste was simply dumped on the track every flush (VEP's, CIG's etc etc).
There are only a handful of CET discharge points on the network, and these are largely within depots. Bare in mind many unit diagrams do not see a depot for two/three days, as per above.
The benefit of the new chemical toilets on the 701's, is that the waste can be dealt with to a large degree in the tanks under the unit, and so visits to depot for CET discharge will in theory be far fewer. I had heard once every three to four weeks would be sufficient, but what the situation is today, now the units are up and running, I do not know?
But in essence, the idea was/is that units could stay in service for far longer between depot visits, thus freeing up more depot time for other maintenance initiatives etc.
Things may well have moved on, so apologies if I am now out of date....
Big Jumby 74
Established Member
That is correct AFAIR, but tanking can be done at locations that don't have a CET of course, ie Waterloo, so still beneficial in reducing visits to depot, potentially!
GW43125
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I find it happens to me at least once a week, in fact a couple of weekends ago I managed 3/3 701s with no working toilets. Compared to an 8 car 450 where you'd almost always have one or more working.
I do feel that not fitting the "cupboard" toilets was a bit of a step back.
WombleGuard
Member
Strawberry Hill is going to have 5 road extended and a CET disposal facility added.
Merle Haggard
Established Member
If that's true, not just SWR
EMR 222s, 810s, LNw 730/2s - all are often with more than one toilet out of use from my anecdotal experience.
But might just be DfT and the Treasury instructions to save money.
Fair enough. I was only going by personal observation.
Toilets in general have become far less reliable since waste tanks became the norm. When they dumped on the track, they were still usable when the fresh water ran out, though rather unpleasant. With a tank, when it's full, it's game over for the toilet. I'm not sure why train toilets compare so unfavourably to those on planes. They have had vacuum toilets for decades and I can't recall finding one out of action. How often are they emptied?
The doors are also a weak point on trains. Plane toilet doors are simple and reliable by comparison. Might be worth a new thread to discuss more.
SECR 65
Member
How many toilets are there on a 5 car 701?
Goldfish62
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It doesn't matter who has decided what. It's one railway and the blame game, a favourite occupation of the railway, is irrelevant.
Merle Haggard
Established Member
And the opportunities for avoiding blame massively increased by privatisation in my opinion.
I recall that the attempted resolution of a problem at Frethun (the entry yard for inbound Channel Tunnel traffic) by my colleague in the early days of privatisation. He made contact with 27 different organisations, the representative of each said 'nuffink to do wiv me mate', though expressed more eloquently.
I believe this is the main issue. They can go a while without the tanks being emptied, but not so long without the water being topped up. And of course the 455s they largely replaced did not require that, so there's plenty of stabling locations without the ability to top up the fresh water.