First Group: General Discussion

[joieman]

Is the First website DOWN ? --

I just get the message "403 Forbidden" and I don't know what to do about it

??

Apparently the website is being updated. This is a screenshot taken just now:

 

[DD12]

Apparently the website is being updated. This is a screenshot taken just now:
View attachment 200201

Thanks very much joieman for that reply -- it's back today.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Copyright 2023!

 

[mattb7tl]

Truly excellent website. I had to help people in my local political party submit feedback because it kept giving them “403 Forbidden.” The only way it worked was by connecting through a VPN... in America...

 

[Flange Squeal]

It has today been announced that First have acquired coach operator Eagle of Bristol.

FirstGroup has acquired Eagle Coaches, a long-established family coach operator based in Bristol, further strengthening its position in the UK coach market and expanding the breadth of its customer proposition.

The business forms part of FirstGroup’s strategy to grow First Bus's diversified coach portfolio, and expand its operational footprint and contract portfolio in key markets through targeted investment in well-run businesses with strong reputations and experienced teams.

Founded in 1926, Eagle Coaches operates a fleet of 19 vehicles and employs 28 people from its depot on Netham Road in St George, Bristol. The business provides private hire, school transport and group travel services for customers across Bristol and the wider South-West.

All employees will continue to work for the business under First Bus ownership, and all existing services, contracts and bookings will continue unchanged.

FirstGroup has been steadily building its coach portfolio through a number of targeted acquisitions across the UK in recent years, including Anderson Travel, Hills Coaches, J&B Travel, Lakeside Group, Matthews Coaches, Tetley’s Coaches and York Pullman.

Josh Ball, Director at Eagle Coaches, said: “Eagle Coaches has been proudly serving customers in Bristol and the surrounding region for generations, building a strong reputation for quality, reliability and personal service. We must take this opportunity to thank our father Adrian for devoting 54 years to the business, who will now take well-earned retirement.

“Joining First Bus marks an exciting new chapter for our business. It allows us to protect what makes Eagle Coaches special, while benefiting from the scale, investment and expertise of a national operator.

“Most importantly, it provides reassurance for our customers, colleagues and partners that the business has a strong future and opportunities to continue growing across the region.”

Andrew Jarvis, Managing Director for First Bus Business and Coach, said: “This acquisition supports our ambition to grow a strong, diversified coach portfolio while expanding our operational footprint in key markets.

“Eagle Coaches is a highly regarded family business with deep roots in Bristol, a loyal customer base and an experienced team delivering high-quality coach services across the region.

“We’re delighted to welcome the Eagle Coaches team into the FirstGroup coach portfolio and look forward to supporting the business as it continues to develop while maintaining the standards and local identity it is known for.”

Source: https://news.firstbus.co.uk/news/fi...io-with-acquisition-of-bristols-eagle-coaches

 

[Leyland Bus]

It has today been announced that First have acquired coach operator Eagle of Bristol.


Source: https://news.firstbus.co.uk/news/fi...io-with-acquisition-of-bristols-eagle-coaches

I wonder how long before the itch gets too great and all these companies are rolled into a single FirstBus style brand??

 

[mattb7tl]

I wonder how long before the itch gets too great and all these companies are rolled into a single FirstBus style brand??

Probably when they have their next management reshuffle, which knowing them, will not be long.

 

[DS25]

Is lakeside coaches planned to get anything from the former kernow fleet for their passenger operations?

 

[Goldfish62]

Is lakeside coaches planned to get anything from the former kernow fleet for their passenger operations?

Apart from the Mousehole Sprinters I believe all are allocated and in service around the country.

 

[mangad]

I wonder how long before the itch gets too great and all these companies are rolled into a single FirstBus style brand??

That plan seemed to work very very well for National Express Transport Solutions...

 

[Leyland Bus]

That plan seemed to work very very well for National Express Transport Solutions...

I know but you know what First are like...

 

[mangad]

I know but you know what First are like...

Indeed. And, of course, if they do it, it will be different....

 

[Leyland Bus]

Indeed. And, of course, if they do it, it will be different....

Very different!

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Is lakeside coaches planned to get anything from the former kernow fleet for their passenger operations?

Lakeside got the Aberdeen Sunsundegui 20812 (BF63HEV) which transported the Drivers to Cornwall.
Aberdeen collected a Tourismo to take home. I believe the Sunsundegui may have been dropped off on the way home.

 

[Volvodart]

First Bus restructure continues with senior leadership changes​

First Bus restructure continues with senior leadership changes - routeone

First Bus has confirmed changes to the senior leadership structure across its UK business arms, work that follows a restructure in 2025.

www.route-one.net

First Bus has confirmed a number of changes to senior leadership structures across its UK business arms to follow an earlier restructure in 2025. The latest reorganisation will leverage a focus on three distinct spheres:

• • Regional Bus (non-franchised areas)
  • First Bus Government (areas operating, or about to operate, on a franchised basis)
  • Business and Coach (capturing corporate transport and the coach market).

The Regional Bus business is headed by Colin Brown as Managing Director. His remit also extends to First Bus London, the former RATP Dev Transit operation in the capital that was purchased in early 2025.
Regional Bus is split into three areas led by new Regional Directors. Andy Cullen takes that title for Scotland and York; Doug Claringbold for South and West; and Simon Mathieson for East and Midlands. Bill Cahill remains local Manging Director for First Bus London.
Mr Cullen was formerly Managing Director of First Bus North and West Yorkshire. He takes on responsibility for operations in Scotland from Duncan Cameron, who has left the business.
First Bus Government under Managing Director Gary Hitchmough has created new senior roles for Zoe Hands and Gavin Smith. Ms Hands becomes Managing Director Franchising with responsibility for Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire and South Yorkshire, while Mr Smith is Bid Solution and Mobilisation Director.
Andrew Jarvis is Managing Director of Business and Coach. He is supported by Simon Cursio in a new role as Managing Director of Specialist Transport Solutions. Mr Cursio will oversee the existing Somerset Passenger Solutions, Specialist Passenger Solutions and First Travel Solutions businesses.
Speaking about the changes, First Bus Managing Director Janette Bell says: “As the bus sector continues to evolve, we need to adapt the way we operate and ensure that our business focuses on the three distinct areas which will allow us to grow and deliver for our customers.
“This restructure and appointment of new leadership will strengthen accountability, simplify decision-making, and ensure that we have the right leadership capacity and capability in place to support performance today and in the future.”
Separately, the group says that further changes are in hand to focus on dedicating more accountable local leadership at depot level.

 

[mattb7tl]

Three things are guaranteed in life.

Death, taxes, and this company doing their monthly management reshuffle.

 

[mangad]

This announcement seems to simply be a minor tweak or simply putting names in roles. It's completely in line with everything they've previously announced. And absolutely nothing knee jerk, nothing brand new, nothing, frankly, to get excited or critical about.

 

[Goldfish62]

This announcement seems to simply be a minor tweak or simply putting names in roles. It's completely in line with everything they've previously announced. And absolutely nothing knee jerk, nothing brand new, nothing, frankly, to get excited or critical about.

I doubt if the senior managers who have seen their roles vanish and therefore lost their jobs as a result of this latest restructure would regard it as a minor tweak. It clearly is not a minor tweak.

 

[Park47515]

First Bus restructure continues with senior leadership changes​

First Bus restructure continues with senior leadership changes - routeone

First Bus has confirmed changes to the senior leadership structure across its UK business arms, work that follows a restructure in 2025.

www.route-one.net

I find it strange that London is in Regional rather than Government considering that it's franchised...

 

[mangad]

I doubt if the senior managers who have seen their roles vanish and therefore lost their jobs as a result of this latest restructure would regard it as a minor tweak. It clearly is not a minor tweak.

If you work as a senior manager in any large company, being re-orged out of a job is - to be blunt - an occupational hazard. No, it's not nice. But it happens all the time.

 

[Goldfish62]

If you work as a senior manager in any large company, being re-orged out of a job is - to be blunt - an occupational hazard. No, it's not nice. But it happens all the time.

That is not the point. I was responding to your comment that the reorg was just a minor tweak. If you've read the detail you'll understand that it's not.

 

[mangad]

That is not the point. I was responding to your comment that the reorg was just a minor tweak. If you've read the detail you'll understand that it's not.

My point was this is not new. This is not surprising. This is not a shock radical restructure. Why? Because this whole thing was announced last year. This is an announcement on implementation not announcement of a big change. We knew First were reorganising in this way last year. It was discussed in this thread.

 

[mattb7tl]

My point was this is not new. This is not surprising. This is not a shock radical restructure. Why? Because this whole thing was announced last year. This is an announcement on implementation not announcement of a big change. We knew First were reorganising in this way last year. It was discussed in this thread.

Whether it is new or not is beside the point, the fact that it keeps happening is the problem. This is not their first management reshuffle in recent years, it is just the latest, which tells you everything you need to know about the dysfunction at the top.

You also have to question what half these managers actually do given that a significant chunk of the companies operations are held together by AI slop churned out by Prospective. It is truly a wonderful business model, hoover up taxpayer subsidy (50% of their revenue), burn it on revolving door management restructures and off the shelf AI tools dressed up as innovation, and make sure none of it ever filters down to actually improving the services the public relies on.

Private sector efficiency, we love to see it in action.

 

[mangad]

Whether it is new or not is beside the point, the fact that it keeps happening is the problem. This is not their first management reshuffle in recent years, it is just the latest, which tells you everything you need to know about the dysfunction at the top.

I have worked in large organisations for my entire career. This is how a restructure has gone, every time.

Step 1: plan for new structure is announced.
Step 2: people for new top roles are appointed. Steps 1 and 2 may be announced at the same time. But not necessarily.
Step 3: new people at too spend time getting to know their new teams.
Step 4: new people at the top announce changes affecting their teams.
And so it continues.

If the workplace is unionised then there are also consultations. If there are redundancies planned then they are consulted on and legal due process to go through. There may be counter proposals presented. Notice periods to be worked through. And a lot more.

Couple of years ago a smallish restructure was announced impacting me and my team. There were roles being made redundant. It took six months from announcement to implementation.

You can say it's dysfunction at the top. I suspect the complete opposite. I suspect it's a company going through it's processes. Because no company will announce a major restructure and have every single thing nailed down immediately.

And I repeat what I said earlier. I believe everything I have read today is completely in line with what First announced last year and that we discussed on this thread last year. If you can point me to something concrete that says I am wrong, please do so.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I have worked in large organisations for my entire career. This is how a restructure has gone, every time.

Step 1: plan for new structure is announced.
Step 2: people for new top roles are appointed. Steps 1 and 2 may be announced at the same time. But not necessarily.
Step 3: new people at too spend time getting to know their new teams.
Step 4: new people at the top announce changes affecting their teams.
And so it continues.

If the workplace is unionised then there are also consultations. If there are redundancies planned then they are consulted on and legal due process to go through. There may be counter proposals presented. Notice periods to be worked through. And a lot more.

Couple of years ago a smallish restructure was announced impacting me and my team. There were roles being made redundant. It took six months from announcement to implementation.

You can say it's dysfunction at the top. I suspect the complete opposite. I suspect it's a company going through it's processes. Because no company will announce a major restructure and have every single thing nailed down immediately.

And I repeat what I said earlier. I believe everything I have read today is completely in line with what First announced last year and that we discussed on this thread last year. If you can point me to something concrete that says I am wrong, please do so.

Don't forget overlaps of re-organisation, where the lower tiers are going through re-org one now that it has trickled down to them. Middle management is going through re-org two and top management are having another re-org which will ultimately filter down to middle and then lower tiers.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

@mangad is correct in that this is the natural next stage of the restructure of First Bus last year into the B2B (Coaching and Contracts) , B2C (non-franchised and London) and B2G (franchised). What is most surprising is that it's taken to this long for them to do it!!

It is truly a wonderful business model, hoover up taxpayer subsidy (50% of their revenue), burn it on revolving door management restructures and off the shelf AI tools dressed up as innovation, and make sure none of it ever filters down to actually improving the services the public relies on.

What does that 50% comprise?

 

[mattb7tl]

@mangad is correct in that this is the natural next stage of the restructure of First Bus last year into the B2B (Coaching and Contracts) , B2C (non-franchised and London) and B2G (franchised). What is most surprising is that it's taken to this long for them to do it!!

What does that 50% comprise?

Subsidies in all their forms, BSOG, tendered contracts, ENCTS reimbursement, plus whatever supported services they run on behalf of local authorities.

The deeper issue is that as these companies become ever more dependent on the public purse, the old defence of "it is private money, so it is none of your business" falls apart entirely. If the majority of your revenue is underwritten by the taxpayer, you should be subject to FOI. Including commercial services as they would not exist without the large fuel subsidies.

 

[overthewater]

The deeper issue is that as these companies become ever more dependent on the public purse, the old defence of "it is private money, so it is none of your business" falls apart entirely. If the majority of your revenue is underwritten by the taxpayer, you should be subject to FOI. Including commercial services as they would not exist without the large fuel subsidies.

Good luck with the last part, I remember trying to get passenger date from a council bus route years ago, it took alot of toing and throwing as neither the council nor the bus company know what to do. Then it boild down to the fact why do you want the information.

 

[Metal Mickey]

First Bus restructure continues with senior leadership changes​

First Bus restructure continues with senior leadership changes - routeone

First Bus has confirmed changes to the senior leadership structure across its UK business arms, work that follows a restructure in 2025.

www.route-one.net

So they’ve paired Aberdeen and Glasgow with York. I wonder if Andy Cullen has any knowledge of the Scottish bus market?

 

[mattb7tl]

Good luck with the last part, I remember trying to get passenger date from a council bus route years ago, it took alot of toing and throwing as neither the council nor the bus company know what to do. Then it boild down to the fact why do you want the information.

Yeah, familiar story. Both sides hide behind each other, the council says it is the operators data, the operator says it is the councils contract (or ignore the email), and you end up going round in circles getting nowhere.

This has to change, especially for areas choosing to remain deregulated. If public money makes up the majority of an operator income, residents and local authorities should have an unambiguous right to the underlying data, passenger numbers, load factors, revenue per route, to judge whether they are actually getting value for money. The current situation, where you cannot even verify the basics, makes any kind of meaningful accountability completely impossible or have the ability to protest unjust cuts.

So they’ve paired Aberdeen and Glasgow with York. I wonder if Andy Cullen has any knowledge of the Scottish bus market?

They have done this before assuming history is anything to go by they will know absolutely nothing. But do not threat, it will not be long before they burn through more money with another major management reshuffle.