31101 Glasgow Central

[CW2]

I was doing some scanning of old negatives and came across a series of photos showing 31101 working 1M65 2235 Glasgow Central - Nottingham via Dumfries parcels train on an unspecified date in May 1987. That is the only time I have ever seen a class 31 in Glasgow Central.

Two questions:
1) Can anybody pin down the exact date? [Edit: might have been April 1987, not May].
2) What train did it work into Glasgow Central? 1740 passenger service ex Carlisle via Dumfries maybe?

Here's hoping the collective gray cells and memories of board members may come up with the answers.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Adrian Barr]

From the Traction Talk column of RAIL Enthusiast Magazine No.70 (July 1987 issue):

Shortage of anything else saw 31101 (BS) employed out of Glasgow Central on April 21 with the 2235 Nottingham parcels train. It had been sent light from Carlisle to work an up ECS from a Euston - Glasgow relief

 

[MadMac]

Presumably taken back by whoever brought it in the first place? I wouldn’t imagine there would be any local drivers with the requisite traction knowledge.

 

[Harvester]

It looks like that could have been the intention, but instead of being taken back south on the ECS it was commandeered for the parcels instead!

 

[CW2]

Thanks. I guess it was probably a Carlisle driver. The 31 was quite a novelty at Glasgow Central.

 

[Mag_seven]

The 31 was quite a novelty at Glasgow Central.

I'm sure the odd 31 was sent up on a Carlisle to Glasgow via Dumfries service now and again?

 

[CW2]

I'm sure the odd 31 was sent up on a Carlisle to Glasgow via Dumfries service now and again?

Not that I know of - and I was a Controller in Glasgow 1984 - 87. They may have made an appearance outside that period. Booked traction then was mostly 47s, but classes 25/26/27/37 deputised quite regularly.

 

[Falcon1200]

I was not even aware of 31101's infiltration, and was also a Controller in Glasgow, from 1984. The only 31 I ever had on the WCML, unaccountably I did not record the details, was when a Down freight damaged the overheads somewhere between Carlisle and Lockerbie. The only loco available at Carlisle for an Edinburgh-bound train was a 31, which worked the train (slowly!) via a reversal at Carstairs, from where I took a bus to Lanark for a train home towards Glasgow. I'm not even sure what year this was, possibly 1986-87.

 

[CW2]

I was not even aware of 31101's infiltration, and was also a Controller in Glasgow, from 1984. The only 31 I ever had on the WCML, unaccountably I did not record the details, was when a Down freight damaged the overheads somewhere between Carlisle and Lockerbie. The only loco available at Carlisle for an Edinburgh-bound train was a 31, which worked the train (slowly!) via a reversal at Carstairs, from where I took a bus to Lanark for a train home towards Glasgow. I'm not even sure what year this was, possibly 1986-87.

So you've had both a 27 and a 31 on service trains over Beattock. That's amazing!

 

[Falcon1200]

That's amazing!

Indeed. The Guard on the 31-hauled train even announced that we were running slowly thanks to 'a little engine on the front'!

 

[norbitonflyer]

I've seena photograph in a book somewhere of a Brush Type 2 at Mallaig. In the very early days of the pilot scheme, in 1958, D5511 visited both there and Wick.

scot-rail.co.uk » Class 31

Of course, at the time, it was not a class 31. Even if TOPS had existed then, it would have been a class 30. (Under the 1955 scheme it was a D13/1)

 

[Beebman]

Indeed. The Guard on the 31-hauled train even announced that we were running slowly thanks to 'a little engine on the front'!

When I was commuting from the Thames Valley to Paddington in the 1980s I once had a 31 instead of a 47 and the guard announced that we were running slowly thanks to 'a parcels engine on the front'!

 

[CW2]

Here's a scan of one of the photos I took.

 

[Strathclyder]

Here's a scan of one of the photos I took.View attachment 201598

A belter! Dripping with atmosphere to say the least!

 

[Acathater]

Not that I know of - and I was a Controller in Glasgow 1984 - 87. They may have made an appearance outside that period. Booked traction then was mostly 47s, but classes 25/26/27/37 deputised quite regularly.

I would have thought the most likely service to take a 31 to Scotland was probably the early evening ECS parcels which ran north from Crewe (or Warrington?) in the late 80s/early 90s. Normally had a refurbished 26 in charge, though I've got half a memory of seeing a 31 on it north of Lancaster

 

[D1537]

I was not even aware of 31101's infiltration, and was also a Controller in Glasgow, from 1984. The only 31 I ever had on the WCML, unaccountably I did not record the details, was when a Down freight damaged the overheads somewhere between Carlisle and Lockerbie. The only loco available at Carlisle for an Edinburgh-bound train was a 31, which worked the train (slowly!) via a reversal at Carstairs, from where I took a bus to Lanark for a train home towards Glasgow. I'm not even sure what year this was, possibly 1986-87.

A bit later than 86-87, but 31294 did 1S52 0650 Paddington-Edinburgh from Carlisle on 17/9/91

Facebook photo of it between Carstairs and Edinburgh

 

[MadMac]

So you've had both a 27 and a 31 on service trains over Beattock. That's amazing!

There was a peak time only service to/from Beattock usually operated by a DMU, which would have been an interesting climb to say the least. I only recently found out that I was on the last one to Beattock as far as Motherwell.

 

[WesternLancer]

Here's a scan of one of the photos I took.View attachment 201598

Nicely done!

 

[Magdalia]

I'm sure the odd 31 was sent up on a Carlisle to Glasgow via Dumfries service now and again?

Not that I know of either. I had to consult an expert to find the only known example, and that was on what in the olden days would have been called a control relief. It happened on 15 June 1990, the summer that the Settle and Carlisle service was loco hauled mostly with class 31s. The last arrival at Carlisle was the 1725 from Leeds and 31426 was the loco on 15 June 1990. When it arrived at Carlisle there was some disruption on the WCML so 31426 and stock formed a 1Z09 2245 Carlisle-Glasgow via Dumfries, returning ecs.

A similar example that summer, though not to Glasgow, was on 15 September 1990, when 31412 worked 1400 Carlisle-Ayr after 37229 failed on the inward working. Here is a picture at Kilmarnock.

31412 - Kilmarnock 15 September 1990

You didn’t get many 31s in Scotland,let alone on service trains. This was a late substitute for failed 37229 on the 14:00 Carlisle to Ayr.

www.flickr.com

A bit later than 86-87, but 31294 did 1S52 0650 Paddington-Edinburgh from Carlisle on 17/9/91

There is a picture on flickr here:

31294

Railfreight Construction liveried 31294 passes Woolfords, on the Carstairs to Edinburgh line, with the 0650 London Paddington to Edinburgh Waverley. The 31 came onto the train at Carlisle following the failure of the booked Class86. The loco worked back to Carlisle light engine from Edinburgh.

www.flickr.com

I've seena photograph in a book somewhere of a Brush Type 2 at Mallaig. In the very early days of the pilot scheme, in 1958, D5511 visited both there and Wick.
scot-rail.co.uk » Class 31

D5511 did a tour of Scotland in June-August 1958 between completion of acceptance trials and delivery to Stratford. It crossed the border at Berwick not Gretna.

 

[Adrian Barr]

The only 31 I ever had on the WCML, unaccountably I did not record the details, was when a Down freight damaged the overheads somewhere between Carlisle and Lockerbie. The only loco available at Carlisle for an Edinburgh-bound train was a 31, which worked the train (slowly!) via a reversal at Carstairs, from where I took a bus to Lanark for a train home towards Glasgow. I'm not even sure what year this was, possibly 1986-87.

The only info I can find on class 31s working passenger trains at Carstairs in the late 80s is this snippet from the September 1985 Rail Enthusiast:

31165 (BS) made a virtually unprecedented visit to Carstairs on June 3 [1985] when it was forced to carry on with the return working of a Scotrail Explorer excursion from Arbroath to Morecambe instead of being taken off at Carnforth when 85023 was declared unfit. It was then relieved by 47528.

And this working from the Railgen archive:

Sun

21/06/1987

31449

1S39 1132 Poole - Glasgow Central between Carlisle - Carstairs

The Railgen archive search menu has an option to search for workings for class 31s (or whichever class you are interested in) for a particular month, which is useful, but no doubt some interesting workings must have slipped under the radar without being recorded. Apart from those two workings, I can't find any other mentions of Carstairs on there between Jan 1985 and Dec 1990

The August 1985 issue of Rail Enthusiast mentions the training of Carlisle crews on class 31s:

We wonder whether the Scottish breakthrough by Class 31s is about to start... the transfer of 31101 and 31118 to Carlisle Kingmoor for crew-training was one of the most interesting alterations from the start of the May [1985] timetable. (Rail Enthusiast - Aug 1985 issue)

18 months later, the same "Traction Talk" column has this to say about 31s working into Scotland from Carlisle:

Visits of class 31s over the border via the West Coast routes are still very much a novelty, although one does occasionally work from Carlisle on nuclear flask traffic [to Fairlie]. As Ayr crews are not trained, the 31 either works back light or stables in Falkland all day before working back to Carlisle on the 6E84 Stranraer - Scunthorpe Speedlink. (Rail Enthusiast - Feb 1987 issue)

The same column has a few mentions of 31s working into Scotland on WCML freight:

31200 (CD) 31130 provided the sight of a double-header class 31 over Beattock on March 19 [1988] when they returned a PW train to Motherwell from Castleton yard [6Z54 07:00 dep] after maintenance. (Rail Enthusiast - Jun 1988 issue)

31432 (IM) was parked at Carstairs on January 11, having failed on an unidentified 3Z40 special working (Rail Enthusiast - Apr 1986 issue)

Class 31s appear with increasing frequency over the western side of Scotland. 31171 (BS) worked a Carlisle - Mossend freight on July 17 [1986], but had to return immediately because Motherwell crews are not passed on 31s.

31122 (KD) is reported to have worked a special freight to Ayr Falkland Junction on the morning of August 7 [1986], and on the 20th 31174 (IM) the 6E84 Stranraer - Scunthorpe Freightliner [Speedlink?] through the town. (Rail Enthusiast - Nov 1986 issue)

Another visit of a 31 to Glasgow Central occurred in June 1988:

31416 (CD) was seen in Glasgow Central station on June 30 [1988] with the high speed track recording coach. (Rail Enthusiast - Oct 1988 issue)

The formation is seen here approaching Preston the previous day as a 1Z25 11:15 Euston - Glasgow: https://www.flickr.com/photos/wolfie59/5325372326/ (Photo: Vincent)

There's also this mention of 31176 on the Railgen Archive which suggests it may have reached Glasgow on this unlikely working (photo confirmation would be nice!)

Sat

14/06/1986

31176

1S19 1648 Penzance - Glasgow Central DH with 47613 between Worcester Shrub Hill - Glasgow Central Pilot

And this unusual working from Carlisle to Motherwell:

Mon

16/03/1987

31259

1Z71 1837 Carlisle - Motherwell CONTROL RELIEF

I'm sure the odd 31 was sent up on a Carlisle to Glasgow via Dumfries service now and again?

31s occasionally visited Dumfries on passenger turns from Carlisle, such as this working:

31428 (CD) and four Mark 1 coaches substituted for a failed DMU on the 0635 Carlisle - Dumfries and 0746 return on January 28 [1988]. (Rail Enthusiast - Apr 1988 issue)

I found one instance (looking at the late 1980s) on the Railgen archive of a 31 working through to Glasgow on the GSW:

Fri 01/07/88
31324 1S50 0808 Carlisle - Glasgow Central
31324 1M03 1313 Glasgow Central - Carlisle

I think this was a regular loco-hauled working, but not for a class 31!

From the Railgen archive - 1S50 during summer 1988:

10 workings of 1s50 during the 16/05/1988 - 02/10/1988 timetable from 10 records found.

	Date​	Loco​	Working​
Tue	17/05/1988	47120	1S50 0805 Carlisle - Glasgow Central
Tue	07/06/1988	47377	1S50 0805 Carlisle - Glasgow Central
Thu	16/06/1988	26041	1S50 0808 Carlisle - Glasgow Central
Wed	22/06/1988	37668	1S50 0808 Carlisle - Glasgow Central
Fri	01/07/1988	31324	1S50 0808 Carlisle - Glasgow Central
Sat	02/07/1988	26041	1S50 0840 Carlisle - Glasgow Central
Thu	14/07/1988	37512	1S50 0808 Carlisle - Glasgow Central
Wed	03/08/1988	37508	1S50 0808 Carlisle - Glasgow Central
Mon	26/09/1988	47157	1S50 0805 Carlisle - Glasgow Central between Kilmarnock - Glasgow Central
Thu	29/09/1988	26041	1S50 0808 Carlisle - Glasgow Central between Annan - Glasgow Central

Just need a time machine...

 

[Harpo]

The magazine quote…..

31171 (BS) worked a Carlisle - Mossend freight on July 17 [1986], but had to return immediately because Motherwell crews are not passed on 31s.

….is a classic bit of magazine wibble.

The crew on a foreign loco deep inside enemy territory with their back working cancelled would call the local control for instructions. If the loco was of no use locally, and there was no other traffic waiting, the crew would usually be told to go home light.

Inter-regional balances were subject to lots of monkey business such as sending distant crews to relieve and poach locos that were booked to go home light, or York control using it’s authority over the GE to raid Stratford depot and order locos to the GN after getting themselves in a pickle at Kings Cross.

 

[Acathater]

The magazine quote…..

….is a classic bit of magazine wibble.

The crew on a foreign loco deep inside enemy territory with their back working cancelled would call the local control for instructions. If the loco was of no use locally, and there was no other traffic waiting, the crew would usually be told to go home light.

Presumably in many cases the crew would be out of time anyway? So either another crew would have to be found or the engine parked up for the night...?

 

[CW2]

Somewhere in the "Back in the Day" thread I told the tale of turning up at Edinburgh 14/04/80 to head back to York on one of the overnights. The heaviest ECML train of the night was the 2230 Edinburgh - Kings Cross, load 14 including several sleepers. That train was diagrammed for a Gateshead crew, so was occasionally used to get rid of any loco not wanted in Scotland.

31181 on load 14 was not swift!

 

[Harpo]

Presumably in many cases the crew would be out of time anyway? So either another crew would have to be found or the engine parked up for the night...?

Rarely. Pre-Hidden, long hours were no issue and route knowledge was based on 8/9 hour days. It would be rare to have a crew that declined ‘a dozen’ to do more.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Somewhere in the "Back in the Day" thread I told the tale of turning up at Edinburgh 14/04/80 to head back to York on one of the overnights. The heaviest ECML train of the night was the 2230 Edinburgh - Kings Cross, load 14 including several sleepers. That train was diagrammed for a Gateshead crew, so was occasionally used to get rid of any loco not wanted in Scotland.

31181 on load 14 was not swift!

And an overnight spring chill, no doubt! Was the service still of Mk1 sleepers? I think the Mk3 SLE / SLEP only came into service the following year.

 

[CW2]

And an overnight spring chill, no doubt! Was the service still of Mk1 sleepers? I think the Mk3 SLE / SLEP only came into service the following year.

Yes, this was still the MK1 steam heat era. I think the 31 was at providing steam heat to keep us nice and warm on the prolonged journey.

 

[BeijingDave]

A bit later than 86-87, but 31294 did 1S52 0650 Paddington-Edinburgh from Carlisle on 17/9/91

Facebook photo of it between Carstairs and Edinburgh

Never even knew there was a Paddinton-Edinburgh service!

Which route did it take? Paddington-Reading-Banbury-Birmingham then up the WCML or Cross-Country via Newcastle?

 

[hexagon789]

Never even knew there was a Paddinton-Edinburgh service!

Which route did it take? Paddington-Reading-Banbury-Birmingham then up the WCML or Cross-Country via Newcastle?

The former, in the days before splitting at Carstairs ended on most cross-country trains up the northern WCML, it also had a Glasgow portion.

It started in 1983 IIRC, combining a Paddington-Oxford-Birmimgham with a Birmingam-Scotland.

Paddington to Edinburgh (and IIRC Manchester and Liverpool), workings survived into the early 2000s.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Which route did it take? Paddington-Reading-Banbury-Birmingham then up the WCML or Cross-Country via Newcastle?

It went via Stoke and Manchester so it was effectively a Paddington - Manchester and a Manchester - Edinburgh combined. The Class 47 worked from Paddington to Preston for a Class 86 forward.

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

It went via Stoke and Manchester so it was effectively a Paddington - Manchester and a Manchester - Edinburgh combined. The Class 47 worked from Paddington to Preston for a Class 86 forward.

That was a later development. In the mid 1980s Glasgow to Euston was every 2 hours and roughly on the opposite hour there was a Glasgow & Edinburgh to Preston service which then went to such diverse places as Harwich, Penzance and Paddington with the last departure of the day being to Manchester &Liverpool.

Electrics (generally class 86) between Glasgow/Carstairs and either Preston (for services to Harwich or Manchester/Liverpool) or Birmingham (the rest).

Slightly later development was addition of the Sussex and Wessex Scots to/from the south coast? Followed by something of a dogs dinner in the early Virgin era.

From memory I think the Glasgow-Paddington was the circa 1620 departure? Southbound it was something like 1020 Penzance, 1220 Harwich, 1420 Birmingham, 1620 Paddington and 1820 Manchester/Liverpool?