UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[E27007]

Sometimes the industry doesn't help itself though. We were refused a lease on a Ford Puma (EV) as we were told that they had more applications in a 2 week period than the whole of the previous year.

A friend in car retailing (CEO) has given me advice on purchasing a ZEV (basically do not) he advised "if you must" take a lease and let someone take the depreciation hit.

Here is a link to a youtube video which may explain the refusal of a lease on the Puma EV, the miscalculation of future values of ZEVs by leasing companies, the residual values out by £10,000 per ZEV due to savage depreciation

BVLRA reports savage depreciation on ZEV's

 

[Bald Rick]

A friend in car retailing (CEO) has given me advice on purchasing a ZEV (basically do not) he advised "if you must" take a lease and let someone take the depreciation hit.

Obviously, buy a 12-18 month old one. That deals with most of the depreciation for the first 5 years.

 

[Mawkie]

Obviously, buy a 12-18 month old one. That deals with most of the depreciation for the first 5 years.

Exactly what I did, and in my case gives a decent defence to all those "I wouldn't give Elon my money" people if needed (which it isn't).

 

[Silent]

I'm saddened to hear this - but I don't think it's necessarily anything to do with electric buses.

When I drove buses back in the 90s, I remember the conversion of the garage from Metros to low floor Plaxton Presidents.

Seemingly perversely, the older passengers preferred the stepped Metros with their longitudinal front seats. When the low floor stuff came in, they would often ask me "Give me a chance to sit down love" because the first seats were so far away!

Hopefully if you specifically ask for a little extra time the driver would respect that.

I remember the old buses having under the staircase luggage space, why was that done away with. I'm guessing low floor meant less fuel tank space so it had to go there instead? I do think with EV buses some batteries seem to go around the front wheel though. But this wasn't obviously the case with low floor presidents. I guess low floor buses did away with the front longitudinal seats. Why?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Mar 2026 ==

TFL Specification for New Buses has had an acceleration limit for a number of years now.

Weirdly I even think B5LH's could have harsh acceleration when they were new. I think it may have been toned down.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Mar 2026 ==

An interesting question here is: "Are they actually good?" they clearly have better response times than humans and can stop the car. Just not as smoothly as we might like. So is the tailgating really evidence of a bad system?

I try hard not to use adaptive cruise. I cancel my cruise long before it gets near enough to need to brake for me.

Tailgating is bad if it is influencing the other cars to speed more or drive differently.

 

[bspahh]

Tailgating is bad if it is influencing the other cars to speed more or drive differently.

My KIA EV3 has a setting with 4 levels for the distance to set for the adaptive cruise control. 1 sets the closest distance, 4 the furthest. When its set at 2 on a motorway, it gives a 2 second gap.

The higher settings aren't good on a twisty road if you follow a car that is going slower than the target speed. If the car in front goes out of sight, then the cruise control it will accelerate towards the target speed, and then have to brake again. Then it is better to adjust the target speed to something that is closer to the speed of the car in front.

 

[E27007]

Obviously, buy a 12-18 month old one. That deals with most of the depreciation for the first 5 years.

No need, buy a pre-registered ZEV, one-third off the price of new and enjoy a longer ZEV battery warranty and an extra year or two before the MoT
see link:
ZEV pre-reg discounts

 

[Noddy]

Unsurprisingly, interest (and sales) of used EVs is rising across Europe (and the UK) in the wake of the Iran war.

Petrol price spikes triggered by the war in Iran are boosting used electric vehicle sales across Europe, online car platforms told Reuters, in an early sign that pain at the pump is pushing consumers away from combustion engines.

"There is currently an electric car bonanza in the used market," said Terje Dahlgren, ‌an analyst at Norway's largest used-car marketplace Finn.no, adding that EVs have recently overtaken diesel models as the site's best-selling fuel type.

The war, which erupted on February 28, has disrupted a vital shipping route that carries roughly 20% of global oil supplies.

That has fed straight through to filling-station prices, with the average cost of petrol in the European Union rising 12% to 1.84 euros ($2.12) per litre from February 23 to March 16, European Commission data show.
French online used-car retailer Aramisauto said its share of EV sales almost doubled from the week starting February 16 to the week starting March 9, rising to 12.7% from 6.5%.

….

Used EV sales tend to react quickly to shifts in sentiment or sharp moves in petrol prices because they are up to 40% cheaper than new models and readily available to drive off the lot, unlike new cars that often take months to deliver.

"Considering the lead time of a vehicle purchase, we expect this momentum to continue as the market fully absorbs the impact of recent global events," said Alastair Campbell, vice president of growth at British automotive ⁠data firm Marketcheck.
Data provided to Reuters by Marketcheck show a "clear and sustained escalation" in used EVs sales since the war began.

….

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/used-ev-sales-jump-europe-iran-war-drives-up-petrol-prices-2026-03-26/

You have to wonder who would buy a pure ICE car at the moment with no end in sight to Trumps war and petrol prices continuing to rise.

 

[AM9]

You have to wonder who would buy a pure ICE car at the moment with no end in sight and petrol prices continuing to rise.

Climate change deniers and petrol heads who can't cope with change.

 

[Snow1964]

DfT has reissued / updated the EV grant applications for car manufacturers (the forms they submit for each model to be eligible for grants, if they meet conditions) with them estimated number of sales for next 4 years

Apply for vehicle eligibility for the Electric Car Grant

Application form for vehicle manufacturers to apply for vehicle eligibility for the Electric Car Grant.

www.gov.uk

Zero emission vehicle grant portal

Using the zero emission vehicle grant portal to apply for funding as a car manufacturer or dealership.

www.gov.uk

Guidance for car dealerships and manufacturers on how to use the zero emission vehicle grant portal to manage OZEVzero emission vehicle grants.
This page contains separate guidance on using the portal to manage grants for:

• the Electric Car Grant (ECG)
• all other zero emission vehicle grants

 

[Mawkie]

No need, buy a pre-registered ZEV, one-third off the price of new and enjoy a longer ZEV battery warranty and an extra year or two before the MoT
see link:
ZEV pre-reg discounts

That video was depressing. Not for the content, but the presenting style. He's speaking like he's caught the whole EV market in some massive gotcha, when in reality, people have been complaining EVs are overpriced. He's identified some market adjustment that brings EVs down in price and is still complaining like it's a bad thing.

They can't have it both ways.

 

[jon0844]

There are signs all around the world of second hand EVs going up in price as demand rockets, which isn't really a good thing for anyone now thinking of getting one.

The anti EV brigade are bound to notice this soon and then moan that EVs are getting more expensive, probably blaming the Prime Minister at the same time.

Likewise I saw a video stating that in Australia, at least, it seems like diesel cars are pretty much becoming impossible to sell now.

I've said it before - by 2030 and beyond, when EV sales will be the majority, the values of petrol and diesel cars will likely be minimal as who would buy an old ICE car?

I'm excluding performance cars and special vehicles kept in great condition, and referring to your average car that will seem like a dinosaur in the future (some might argue many are now given the choice of engines for most cars today).

 

[Bletchleyite]

That video was depressing. Not for the content, but the presenting style. He's speaking like he's caught the whole EV market in some massive gotcha, when in reality, people have been complaining EVs are overpriced. He's identified some market adjustment that brings EVs down in price and is still complaining like it's a bad thing.

They can't have it both ways.

All new cars are grossly overpriced (with the very odd exception like Dacias, some MGs and some low end Kias). Prudent people buy a couple of years old and get a car that is only just broken in and with some warranty left in case of issues. Fortunately there are enough imprudent people to keep the market primed by wasting their money buying new.

It's not an EV thing. It's something that happened when the industry moved from primarily making profit by selling cars to primarily making profit selling PCP finance packages but with cars as the medium to do so.

 

[Snow1964]

There are signs all around the world of second hand EVs going up in price as demand rockets, which isn't really a good thing for anyone now thinking of getting one.

It's also end of the quarter, where most finance deals change. But those that are quick can probably snap up some one year old cars, especially ex demonstrators (which often have lots of optional extras) because the cars get changed after registration plate changes

The anti EV brigade are bound to notice this soon and then moan that EVs are getting more expensive, probably blaming the Prime Minister at the same time.

Some people will always moan, but I don't blame our PrimeMinister for this one

Likewise I saw a video stating that in Australia, at least, it seems like diesel cars are pretty much becoming impossible to sell now.

It also gets self perpetuating, if diesel becomes unpopular, no one is going to open extra diesel pumps, or replace old ones that need replacing, so over time fuel will be harder to find.

I've said it before - by 2030 and beyond, when EV sales will be the majority, the values of petrol and diesel cars will likely be minimal as who would buy an old ICE car?

Diesel cars (new) are now a niche market, latest months SMMT figures (Feb) had just 4080 cars as diesel, and there are around 2m new cars a year in UK

I'm excluding performance cars and special vehicles kept in great condition, and referring to your average car that will seem like a dinosaur in the future (some might argue many are now given the choice of engines for most cars today).

Another niche market

All new cars are grossly overpriced (with the very odd exception like Dacias, some MGs and some low end Kias). Prudent people buy a couple of years old and get a car that is only just broken in and with some warranty left in case of issues. Fortunately there are enough imprudent people to keep the market primed by wasting their money buying new.

Occasionally do get good deals on cars where model is being upgraded or replaced, if don't care about it being last of a type. Actually these latter versions often have all the glitches and weaker points sorted so are often more reliable too

It's not an EV thing. It's something that happened when the industry moved from primarily making profit by selling cars to primarily making profit selling PCP finance packages but with cars as the medium to do so.

Bear in mind that if you have the funds, can often take all the incentives, discounts, free servicing etc, if you sign up for a PCP, have the car, pay off PCP in few days for token few pounds interest. Keep all the incentives (subsidised by those who can't afford to settle it within 14 days). It's playing the system.

If look carefully can find massive discounts like this eg CUPRA was offering Born (a model being upgraded in few months) with £7000 off, extra £1000 in March, £1500 electric car grant, essentials for £150 and subsidised home charger. (Deals expired 31 March, but will probably be new quarterly deal today). If add all these together getting 30% off the high list price without even haggling, but need to be able to pay off PCP if don't want to be paying 6.9% interest.

 

[Mawkie]

Prudent people buy a couple of years old and get a car that is only just broken in and with some warranty left in case of issues.

You're showing your age there I think... Genuine question: do EVs need to be broken in? Actually do ICE cars need to be broken in these days?

Fortunately there are enough imprudent people to keep the market primed by wasting their money buying new.

Or business leases, company cars, Sal Sac, etc. But yes hooray for them giving me access to cheaper vehicles.

 

[thejuggler]

That video was depressing. Not for the content, but the presenting style. He's speaking like he's caught the whole EV market in some massive gotcha, when in reality, people have been complaining EVs are overpriced. He's identified some market adjustment that brings EVs down in price and is still complaining like it's a bad thing.

They can't have it both ways.

The issue is that 'market adjustment' has to be paid by someone and that someone is the manufacturer and supply chain. A company which produces products and sells at a loss doesn't survive long, that's the bigger picture problem which needs policy to resolve.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You're showing your age there I think... Genuine question: do EVs need to be broken in?

Probably not, as it's largely about the pistons and bores which they don't have.

Actually do ICE cars need to be broken in these days?

Yes, I'm pretty sure ICE car manuals still suggest driving with a light right foot for the first couple of thousand miles.

 

[bspahh]

You're showing your age there I think... Genuine question: do EVs need to be broken in? Actually do ICE cars need to be broken in these days?

If you treat a car as a software package running on a custom computer which happens to have some wheels, then the equivalent is user testing.

 

[Silent]

There are signs all around the world of second hand EVs going up in price as demand rockets, which isn't really a good thing for anyone now thinking of getting one.

The anti EV brigade are bound to notice this soon and then moan that EVs are getting more expensive, probably blaming the Prime Minister at the same time.

Likewise I saw a video stating that in Australia, at least, it seems like diesel cars are pretty much becoming impossible to sell now.

I've said it before - by 2030 and beyond, when EV sales will be the majority, the values of petrol and diesel cars will likely be minimal as who would buy an old ICE car?

I'm excluding performance cars and special vehicles kept in great condition, and referring to your average car that will seem like a dinosaur in the future (some might argue many are now given the choice of engines for most cars today).

2030 actually feels too quick, barring regulations, if new cars are still a lot of hybrids and ICE. But I haven’t researched this, I know a lot of new cars are ev but don’t know the proportion compared to ICE and hybrid cars. I know that modern cars also last long, by modern I mean 10-20 year old cars, even the designs haven’t seemed to age badly but I think design moved slower 2000- now compared to the 80s to 00s. I think new cars may last as long structurally but I wonder if additional electronics and bigger batteries may make them age quicker and not last as long. As led lighting also seems more designed to the point of almost looking line graphic design than just light design I wonder if it would look tacky on some cars as they age or become a design classic.

 

[The Ham]

2030 actually feels too quick, barring regulations, if new cars are still a lot of hybrids and ICE. But I haven’t researched this, I know a lot of new cars are ev but don’t know the proportion compared to ICE and hybrid cars. I know that modern cars also last long, by modern I mean 10-20 year old cars, even the designs haven’t seemed to age badly but I think design moved slower 2000- now compared to the 80s to 00s. I think new cars may last as long structurally but I wonder if additional electronics and bigger batteries may make them age quicker and not last as long. As led lighting also seems more designed to the point of almost looking line graphic design than just light design I wonder if it would look tacky on some cars as they age or become a design classic.

There's few things to note:

- 2030 was talked about new cars being mostly EV's not all cars, which could mean that they reach 50.001% of new sales, but could still be less than 20% of all cars
- current mandates are for 80% of catlrs to be zero emission vehicles in 2030, so there's quite a margin for a reduction from this mandate to still reach 50% of all cars
- February 2026 had pure EV sales as 24.2% that's a significant increase over the 14.3% from the same month 4 years ago - however there's concerns that it'll be short of the 33% target for the year (hence the talk of still meeting 50% in 2030 even though it's short of the actual target) and yet EV's are less than 6% of all cars in use

 

[Snow1964]

2030 actually feels too quick, barring regulations, if new cars are still a lot of hybrids and ICE. But I haven’t researched this, I know a lot of new cars are ev but don’t know the proportion compared to ICE and hybrid cars. I know that modern cars also last long, by modern I mean 10-20 year old cars, even the designs haven’t seemed to age badly but I think design moved slower 2000- now compared to the 80s to 00s. I think new cars may last as long structurally but I wonder if additional electronics and bigger batteries may make them age quicker and not last as long. As led lighting also seems more designed to the point of almost looking line graphic design than just light design I wonder if it would look tacky on some cars as they age or become a design classic.

A couple of years ago, most manufacturers were generally working on assumptions that all new cars by 2030s would be EVs, but then they cut assumptions back, which is why many new cars (example Seat Arona) suddenly got second facelift to extend lifespan of a 2017 model to 2030.

As yet isn't really any news of completely new generation ICE cars, instead production lifespan is being extended with existing models getting tweaks.

As it takes nearer 5 years to develop and test completely new models, I suspect manufactures are reluctant to start again on pure ICE now, but those that can afford have either drivetrain are still being introduced.

 

[jon0844]

The issue is that 'market adjustment' has to be paid by someone and that someone is the manufacturer and supply chain. A company which produces products and sells at a loss doesn't survive long, that's the bigger picture problem which needs policy to resolve.

EV batteries have been falling in price quite significantly year on year, which is why there's higher than average depreciation. Newer cars are getting cheaper or coming with larger batteries (or both) which obviously impacts older cars.

However I still think that's a good thing overall.

The fuel crisis is going to certainly help EVs though as high demand will push up values, just as second hand cars shot up in value five or six years ago when demand was high for almost anything. The market will no doubt adjust over time.

 

[Shrop]

Apologies if I've missed any relevant comments on this, but I thought one of the main arguments against EVs was what to do with their batteries once they're life-expired.
How far has the industry got with being able to use old batteries to make new ones? I don't mean a quality which is just recycled, I mean using their components to produce top quality brand new batteries ...

 

[bspahh]

2030 actually feels too quick, barring regulations, if new cars are still a lot of hybrids and ICE. But I haven’t researched this, I know a lot of new cars are ev but don’t know the proportion compared to ICE and hybrid cars. I know that modern cars also last long, by modern I mean 10-20 year old cars, even the designs haven’t seemed to age badly but I think design moved slower 2000- now compared to the 80s to 00s. I think new cars may last as long structurally but I wonder if additional electronics and bigger batteries may make them age quicker and not last as long. As led lighting also seems more designed to the point of almost looking line graphic design than just light design I wonder if it would look tacky on some cars as they age or become a design classic.

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/ lets you plot graphs with how many of specific makes and model of cars are licensed or have a SORN registeration.
This shows plots for a Renault Megane Privilege and a Ford Focus Zetec.


The curve profiles are similar, but the number of registered Meganes has dropped off recently. I think this is because when a modern car gets old, when a repair bill is a lot more than it would cost to buy another car, it will get scrapped. Enough Ford Focuses were sold that is has been worthwhile for scrap dealers to keep stocks of replacement parts. With a Megane, fewer were sold, so this didn't happen, and now minor problems mean that the car will be made into baked bean tins.

 

[jon0844]

Apologies if I've missed any relevant comments on this, but I thought one of the main arguments against EVs was what to do with their batteries once they're life-expired.
How far has the industry got with being able to use old batteries to make new ones? I don't mean a quality which is just recycled, I mean using their components to produce top quality brand new batteries ...

I don't think many EV owners worry about what happens as the battery will never be changed. When the car is scrapped, the battery may get used as a spare for another car, recycled or repurposed based on its state of health.

Recycling is a pretty fascinating thing to see as the different materials are separated out to be reused. The only concern is, like all recycling, once there are so many batteries out there and new batteries will be cheaper to make (using less precious metals than current batteries) then we may see it not being economical to recycle and they'll just stack up.

But, again, that's not something an EV owner needs to be concerned with when it comes to having decided to buy one.

 

[RailWonderer]

You're showing your age there I think... Genuine question: do EVs need to be broken in? Actually do ICE cars need to be broken in these days?

Depreciation is massive, just 10% for driving off the dealership lot, that's why smart buyers buy after 2-3 years then purchase extended warranty depending on the car.

 

[E27007]

That video was depressing. Not for the content, but the presenting style. He's speaking like he's caught the whole EV market in some massive gotcha, when in reality, people have been complaining EVs are overpriced. He's identified some market adjustment that brings EVs down in price and is still complaining like it's a bad thing.

I do not think ZEVs are overpriced, the key component of the ZEV, the battery is an expensive component, far more costly than an ICE engine, ICE technology is mature and well understood, castings forging and machining, the higher ZEV price reflects the greater cost to manufacture and supply a ZEV battery.
The presenter is an experienced battle-hardened car salesman / sales manager, what reason is there to cast doubt upon his opinions? Especially when the evidence of the state of the market for ZEVs is shown by his incisive analysis of the "fire sale" of ZEV vehicles on the car market website Autotrader?

 

[jon0844]

If Fogstar can sell a home battery with 64kWh for around £5000, I can only assume a car maker is now getting them for a pretty good price - and many cars have smaller batteries than that.

They're only going to get cheaper as time goes on.

 

[birchesgreen]

Yes, I'm pretty sure ICE car manuals still suggest driving with a light right foot for the first couple of thousand miles.

Yes i think mine did, mind you i drive like that all the time.

 

[jon0844]

I don't recall car manuals telling me to do anything in particular, but dealers certainly tell you stuff like that - because it's what they've always said.

To be honest, if you needed to treat a car in a specific way these days, they'd surely need to get you to sign something to confirm you accept the requirements for warranty purposes.

 

[Topological]

All new cars are grossly overpriced (with the very odd exception like Dacias, some MGs and some low end Kias). Prudent people buy a couple of years old and get a car that is only just broken in and with some warranty left in case of issues. Fortunately there are enough imprudent people to keep the market primed by wasting their money buying new.

It's not an EV thing. It's something that happened when the industry moved from primarily making profit by selling cars to primarily making profit selling PCP finance packages but with cars as the medium to do so.

As you say, new cars are mostly for corporate contracts and salary sacrifice. I would buy a second-hand, low-mileage one by choice, but the finance deals on electrics mean new from now on. Ex demonstration would also be on my list if actually parting with cash.