Alexander Dennis future - announcement today

[Resuwen]

Expecting an announcement at lunchtime on the future of ADL’s Scottish operations

 

[Sun Chariot]

Expecting an announcement at lunchtime on the future of ADL’s Scottish operations

Please will you share a link to this announcement, once it's in the public domain

 

[Volvodart]

Expecting an announcement at lunchtime on the future of ADL’s Scottish operations

Bus giant axes a quarter of its staff despite Scots public cash bailout

Britain's biggest bus and coach manufacturer which has been propped up by tens of millions in public money in Scotland has decided to lay off more…

www.heraldscotland.com

Britain's biggest bus and coach manufacturer which has been propped up by tens of millions in public money in Scotland has decided to lay off more than a quarter of their staff despite a government-rescue bid sparked by its threat to move to England.

Britain's biggest coach builder Alexander Dennis (ADL) has said that up to 115 roles would be placed at risk of potential redundancy as it consulted on a new approach aimed at securing Scottish manufacturing operations and safeguarding jobs.

The company previously proposed closing said it would keep its Scottish sites open after the Scottish government pledged money towards a furlough scheme.

The company had previously set out plans to close its facilities in Falkirk and Larbert, with the loss of 400 jobs, and move production to Yorkshire.

Under the consultation, ADL would convert its Larbert manufacturing facility to a chassis manufacturing site, supporting all of its low-emission and zero-emission bus products.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Thanks @Volvodart

 

[scosutsut]

Not entirely a shock, it wouldn't have gone from unsustainable and required closing to the maintenance of the status quo in the time that has past, although I appreciate that'll be of little comfort to those under the threat of redundancy.

 

[buslad1988]

Alexander Dennis to shut Falkirk site with 115 jobs at risk

The global bus manufacturer is also consulting on plans to convert its Larbert facility to a chassis-making site

news.stv.tv

Bus manufacturer Alexander Dennis is to shut its base in Falkirk with 115 jobs at risk.

The company also announced it will turn its Larbert facility into a chassis manufacturing site...

Paul Davies, Alexander Dennis president and managing director, said: “We are proposing to retain jobs and restart manufacturing at Larbert with a focus on chassis manufacturing. This represents the best possible outcome for our business, employees, customers and supply chain partners in the current climate...

And above is STV News’ coverage of the closure. No massive surprise - expect some mud slinging with the electric funding announced only last week.

 

[Mrwerdna1]

Ach... well as has been said, not surprising, particularly given ADL's pretty dismal showing in the ScotZEB 3 awards round, but still sad. My sympathy for those facing possible redundancy having to read this news, whilst also seeing millions going towards Yutong buses and McGill's bid for ADL buses being rejected...

The technocratic mechanics of it may well be sound and ADL's product inferior (although that is debatable), but the optics of it are more than terrible. A real kick in the teeth for ADL workers, I feel quite sorry for them

 

[Tetchytyke]

Ach... well as has been said, not surprising, particularly given ADL's pretty dismal showing in the ScotZEB 3 awards round, but still sad.

The mud-slinging from ADL about the ScotZEB 3 is a bit disingenuous.

It only looks like they did badly because of Ember's bid for 100 coaches. Of course, ADL don't make coaches, having put Plaxton into hiatus a couple of years ago. I know McGills are trying to say that they should have got the money instead of Ember, though.

Scotland allocates £45 million for coach and bus as ScotZEB3 concludes

The latest funding round concludes the ScotZEB programme and will support 334 zero-emission vehicles across Scotland, including coaches

www.route-one.net

The funding amounts are as follows:

Applicant	Subsidy awarded	Number of vehicles	Number of chargers	Vehicle breakdown
Ember	£13,174,147	100	43	100 coaches (Yutong)
Stagecoach	£4,568,280.40	44	25	Seven coaches (Yutong) 21 single-deck buses (Yutong) 16 double-deck buses (Yutong)
Rock Road	£11,500,317.08	93	101	69 single-deck buses (Alexander Dennis) 10 single-deck buses (Wrightbus) 14 double-deck buses (Alexander Dennis)
Lothian	£9,567,260	60	88	40 double-deck buses (Alexander Dennis/Volvo) 20 double-deck buses (Wrightbus)
First Bus	£5,989,966	37	38	15 repowered buses 22 double-deck buses (Yutong)

 

[Mikey C]

Who would have thought that ADL's main bus factory including double deckers would end up being Plaxton in Scarborough. Even back when Plaxton and Alexander were separate companies, the Plaxton President double decker body came from Wigan.

 

[christopher]

It's not surprising, ADL missed the boat big time with the new gen EVs compared to the likes of Wright and BYD. Even now the 200 version is struggling

 

[Energy]

The mud-slinging from ADL about the ScotZEB 3 is a bit disingenuous.

It only looks like they did badly because of Ember's bid for 100 coaches. Of course, ADL don't make coaches, having put Plaxton into hiatus a couple of years ago.

Scotland allocates £45 million for coach and bus as ScotZEB3 concludes

The latest funding round concludes the ScotZEB programme and will support 334 zero-emission vehicles across Scotland, including coaches

www.route-one.net

Exactly. If you exclude coaches, ADL did very well...

Brand	Single Deck	Double Deck	TOTAL
Yutong	21​	38​	59​
ADL	69​	54​	123​
Wright	10​	20​	30​
Repowers		15*​	15​

*Unknown if double-deck, but there isn't a single-deck repower product yet...

ADL really need to be working on an integral electric coach or bodying the coach variant of the Volvo BZR chassis, now. National Express has shown clear interest in electric coaches - I reckon we'll see a lot of growth in the coming years.

Even now the 200 version is struggling

ADL took ages to get it out, it missed the last ZEBRA-wave & Stagecoach cancelled some of its E200EV orders due to ADL missing milestones. However, ADL has the most orders for single-deckers in ScotZEB3.

 

[37114]

I feel.sorry for the people at Falkirk losing their jobs but the reality is ADL has had too much production capacity. Focusing Labert on Chassis and Scarborough on bodies gives them solid capacity with potential to grow as well as be agile like picking up the Lothian order to help fill the order books.

 

[318266]

National Express has shown clear interest in electric coaches - I reckon we'll see a lot of growth in the coming years.

I also reckon that National Express won't abandon Caetano given their new e.Levante range.

 

[GusB]

Considering current world events, I wonder if it would be viable to transfer the manufacture of the E100EV here, rather than having it built in China. With oil prices increasing, it's going to have a significant effect on the cost of shipping.

Wasn't there also some outsourcing of chassis manufacturing to another company in the UK at one point? I forget the name.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Wasn't there also some outsourcing of chassis manufacturing to another company in the UK at one point? I forget the name.

MCI in Leyland. I don't understand why they didn't keep Guildford.

 

[Fletcj10]

I assume this also puts Plaxton further into the deathbed then, with one less site to use

 

[scosutsut]

I assume this also put's Plaxton further into the deathbed then with one less site to use

I mean with an all refreshed Electric Bus range, arguably they should have the design / R&D capacity to do so if they wished, but that would involve investing money and time into it?

 

[JasonL]

So now where will the E400EV's for Liverpool go to since Falkirk's closed down?

 

[Snow1964]

MCI in Leyland. I don't understand why they didn't keep Guildford.

Guildford had two large buildings, one was more a foundry and welding building making the chassis frame, the other was chassis assembly (adding all the wiring, pipes, suspension, engines etc).

The assembly building had an open day 7 years ago which was really interesting.

Popular open day at Alexander Dennis in Guildford raises £1,600 for charities | Alexander Dennis

An estimated 3,000 people attended the open day at the Alexander Dennis bus chassis factory in Guildford on Saturday 11th May. The opportunity to look behind the scenes at Britain’s biggest bus manufacturer was enthusiastically embraced by local residents as well as visitors from as far afield...

www.alexander-dennis.com

I think some office and sales staff subsequently moved to Farnborough

 

[gka472l]

So now where will the E400EV's for Liverpool go to since Falkirk's closed down?

I'd assume they will have to be delivered to Merseyside and the LCR would have to sort out somewhere to store them???

 

[Energy]

arguably they should have the design / R&D capacity to do so if they wished, but that would involve investing money and time into it?

The Panther is now quite outdated; it's a design from 1999 with some facelifts, small changes, and adaptations for the changing Volvo chassis. The Leopard was doing better recently, likely due to increased PSVAR requirements.

Plaxton's mid-2010s R&D was too focused on producing variants for Stagecoach, with the Panorama and especially the Panther LE failing to be successful enough with other operators.

Plaxton really needs a big customer to launch a new coach, the 100 electric coach order from Ember would've been great...

I also reckon that National Express won't abandon Caetano given their new e.Levante range.

I agree that we'll see eLevantes, but National Express did permit Plaxton Elite orders in the past. The relationship with Caetano has been far less exclusive since the failure of the Boa Vista, with NX ordering (but never receiving) Van Hool Altanos, and trialling electric Yutongs.

 

[Mikey C]

Guildford had two large buildings, one was more a foundry and welding building making the chassis frame, the other was chassis assembly (adding all the wiring, pipes, suspension, engines etc).

The assembly building had an open day 7 years ago which was really interesting.

Popular open day at Alexander Dennis in Guildford raises £1,600 for charities | Alexander Dennis

An estimated 3,000 people attended the open day at the Alexander Dennis bus chassis factory in Guildford on Saturday 11th May. The opportunity to look behind the scenes at Britain’s biggest bus manufacturer was enthusiastically embraced by local residents as well as visitors from as far afield...

www.alexander-dennis.com

I think some office and sales staff subsequently moved to Farnborough

Geographically, I can see why ADL would want to move chassis production nearer their bodying plants. Though that begs the question why they didn't close Scarborough instead of Falkirk, and concentrated it all in Scotland?

 

[Cesarcollie]

Geographically, I can see why ADL would want to move chassis production nearer their bodying plants. Though that begs the question why they didn't close Scarborough instead of Falkirk, and concentrated it all in Scotland?

i suspect because the buildings at Falkirk are in very poor condition, and the site is large and rather jumbled. The workforce at Scarborough is also rather more flexible I understand.

 

[Mrwerdna1]

ADL really need to be working on an integral electric coach or bodying the coach variant of the Volvo BZR chassis, now. National Express has shown clear interest in electric coaches - I reckon we'll see a lot of growth in the coming years.

Apparently, ADL have declined any current interest in doing that. Can someone confirm?

 

[37114]

Plaxton really needs a big customer to launch a new coach, the 100 electric coach order from Ember would've been great...

While it would have been a good start, I suspect to develope both an electric chassis and new body would require more investment than would be warranted with a 100 coach order and there would be no guarantee of substantial follow on order, considering that ADL/Plaxton was really a UK only company when it came to coaches. It may have been worth it for a body only deal on someone else's chassis but the coach market seems fragmented and highly bespoke these days and no guarantee that any chassis producer would partner with them. It would also have consumed a lot of Scarborough capacity which of course would have meant some bus production would need to have moved to Falkirk.

I suspect the desire to exit Falkirk as a legacy site which no doubt cost more per vehicle to produce compare to Scarborough meant that there is a desire to get to a sweet spot of capacity that can be coped with between Larbert and Scarborough which can produce a semi standard product (I.e. buses not coaches) to meet an anticipated order book per year. Factor in the high cost of developing and continuing to refresh the design of a coach meant it was a no brainer to end coach production.

 

[Mikey C]

Wrightbus have been developing a hydrogen coach, so do seem interested in the coach market, even if ADL aren't.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Without Falkirk, is there must room for future expansion?

 

[JasonL]

Without Falkirk, is there must room for future expansion?

I would presume so, Alexander Dennis is a popular company for bus companies. I would imagine they would move their head office to somewhere like Scarborough

 

[Resuwen]

Without Falkirk, is there must room for future expansion?

Apparently they can run 6 production lines in Larbert but of late have only had 1 up and running

 

[ajrm]

i suspect because the buildings at Falkirk are in very poor condition, and the site is large and rather jumbled. The workforce at Scarborough is also rather more flexible I understand.

Indeed: on a visit to Falkirk about a decade ago we were told that the roof of the main assembly building has leaked for years, and there's no way of fixing it without suspending production. For all these reasons investment in recent years seems to have been concentrated in Scarborough.