How could bus and railway stations be better integrated going forward?

[RT4038]

As mentioned earlier, people don't change between buses and trains that much in the UK because integration is poor. Obviously the whole point of improving integration is to get more people to use public transport. That's the main reason why any public transport improvement is done. The Swiss etc. wouldn't do it if there was no point.

And if the cost of improving integration is more than the benefit that is accrued (at least in the short to medium term), where is the funding coming from?
Merely pointing to Switzerland or Netherlands or Germany and saying 'this is how to do it', without coming up with how this is going to work and be funded in the UK context is not much use. It is the hearts and minds of the people, the politicians and planners that need to be won, in order to get the funding and the political buy-in to do things which will be unpopular in some quarters, remembering that there are many to whom public transport is of no interest and the thought that they may be coerced into using it fills them with horror. There is certainly little appetite for the practical application of integration (and its implications and cost) in most of the country. (plenty of hot air though). How much Bus Service Improvement Plan money has gone towards improving integration?
Your favourite public transport countries have evolved differently to ours (both public transport systems and public attitudes towards them) and it will be a difficult (i.e. unpopular) and expensive job to change ours to theirs.

There was however in PTE areas, which was lost in 1985. Within PTE areas probably constitutes by far the largest amount of local public transport travel. What happens rurally is of less importance.

PTEs only covered a small amount of the country - so I guess the rurality of Prestons and Lancasters and Milton Keynes' of this country are 'of less importance' in the integration stakes, and therefore where their bus stations are situated is of a lower priority.

Why not offer options and allow the public to choose what best meets their requirements?

Probably because integration only works financially when there is an element of compulsion / coercion to ensure that the most expensive (to build and run) and least flexible rail based systems have the maximum use and revenue allocated to them.

 

[johncrossley]

Bus links to connect into rail/tram routes have been tried before and have generally failed.

They have been in operation for many decades in many cities.

Why not offer options and allow the public to choose what best meets their requirements?

Because it costs the taxpayer more. With an optimised network that minimises duplication, not just between buses and trams/metros but also between bus routes that operate on the same corridor, you could end up with more areas having a high frequency service whilst running fewer buses overall compared to today. Therefore duplication robs some people of a more frequent service.

 

[TheGoodDoctor]

Better bus and rail/tram/metro connections are ideal and I do find it frustrating when timetables don't align or bus routes aren't closer to stations. That said, if the expectation is to weld the major railway station and bus station into one point for all onward connections and it so happens be near the major shopping/commercial or work district, then some compromises have to be made. As others have said, buses are expected to be more than just shuttles to the nearest metro stop, especially in suburbia where it needs to get people to the local shopping district or hospital.

I would say that Manchester generally has good integration of bus routes with both train stations and Metrolink, but it tends to be selective. Shudehill is only a little walk from Victoria for all of North Manchester; Oxford Road gets you all of the buses through the university district and further South; Altrincham and Bury have their interchanges right next to the Metrolink, and the latter by the market; both Salford Crescent & Central are on the same NW bus corridor out to Swinton and Bolton or into Piccadilly gardens. But there are few cross-city centre bus links which is a little annoying when wanting just one modal change. I wish it were a little more flexible in terms of connectivity. In the case of Stockport, it seems like the geography is against you if you want a complete integration of the rail and bus stations, what with the height difference and distance from each other. When I've visited, by both bus and train, the current arrangement made sense for the kind of trips I wanted to make (going to the shopping district and visiting a house away from the town centre respectively).

 

[NCT]

I'm pretty sure Rugby station would be a hub for buses in some other countries, especially given its prominence on the National Rail network.

Bamberg says hello.

 

[RT4038]

Bamberg says hello.

Hello Bamberg.

I don't see anything like the constrictions of space and roads outside Bamberg Station compared to Rugby, nor the planning system and infrastructure provision system that the UK has, nor the financial framework that the bus service (and public transport generally) operates and is subsidised, compared to Rugby.

It is these practical things that need to be addressed in order to provide better integration, not the theory of integration generally which is not really disputed. How are you going to get the politicians, the managers and the general population on side to do the unpopular things (raising taxes to pay for increased subsidies to run lightly loaded buses to and from the Station, pay for infrastructure works including demolitions etc., as a priority against something else) necessary to achieve this integration?

After all, Luitpoldstrasse looks just like Murray Road, and the Pfisterstrasse bridge is just like the Mill Road tunnel........ not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bamberg says hello.

Bamberg station is nowhere near as out of town as Rugby to be fair. Rugby station might as well be in a suburb - it's one of the worst examples of stations that aren't in or near town centres.

In fixing this I'd concentrate on places like Preston where the railway station is in the centre of town but is still poorly served due to poor decisions on locating bus stations etc.

 

[RT4038]

Bamberg station is nowhere near as out of town as Rugby to be fair. Rugby station might as well be in a suburb - it's one of the worst examples of stations that aren't in or near town centres.

In fixing this I'd concentrate on places like Preston where the railway station is in the centre of town but is still poorly served due to poor decisions on locating bus stations etc.

So the question is - how are these decisions going to be improved? The decisions will be being made on Development financial grounds, by people who don't use buses, don't see any particular importance in buses, and certainly don't want to be cajoled or coerced into using buses themselves.

I have no idea what the % of Preston station users currently start or complete their journeys by bus, or what the movement may be if the bus station (and all the bus services) were moved next to the Station. I would guess that the current figure is not much, and after the change not much plus a bit (in the short to medium term anyway), unless all sorts of other decisions got taken in respect of fares, service levels etc which would be outside of the purview of Development and Planning decisions. Unless you've got a mayor with teeth and finance who is a bus/transport enthusiast....... which in most cities and towns is nowhere to be seen.



To be fair to @NCT Rugby Station to the Clifton Road bus stops (where all routes go from) is about the same as Bamberg Station to the ZOB (that central bus station in the town centre which @johncrossley says that his favourite European places don't have) - 1.1km

 

[The exile]

Bus links to connect into rail/tram routes have been tried before and have generally failed.

Why not offer options and allow the public to choose what best meets their requirements?

Not aware that we have ever tried full integration here - that means through ticketing and, now, cross-mode delay repay.
If a bus to “big city” called in at “outer suburb” interchange where people had the choice (on the ticket they had already paid for) between changing for the train that ran every fifteen minutes into town taking 10 minutes or staying in the bus which took 45 minutes serving lots of inner suburbs on the way that would be ideal.

 

[yorksrob]

In answer to the opening question, not having them on opposite sides of the town would help (Leeds, this means you !).

 

[NCT]

Bamberg station is nowhere near as out of town as Rugby to be fair. Rugby station might as well be in a suburb - it's one of the worst examples of stations that aren't in or near town centres.

It's 930m between ZOB and Bamburg Bahnhof, and 1.2km between Church Street bus stops and Rugby Station. Same ballpark. In both cases there's a turn-up-and-go frequency between the town and the station.

Hello Bamberg.

I don't see anything like the constrictions of space and roads outside Bamberg Station compared to Rugby, nor the planning system and infrastructure provision system that the UK has, nor the financial framework that the bus service (and public transport generally) operates and is subsidised, compared to Rugby.

It is these practical things that need to be addressed in order to provide better integration, not the theory of integration generally which is not really disputed. How are you going to get the politicians, the managers and the general population on side to do the unpopular things (raising taxes to pay for increased subsidies to run lightly loaded buses to and from the Station, pay for infrastructure works including demolitions etc., as a priority against something else) necessary to achieve this integration?

After all, Luitpoldstrasse looks just like Murray Road, and the Pfisterstrasse bridge is just like the Mill Road tunnel........ not.

In terms of the overall walking distance and walking environment (quality of urban realm, number of lanes crossed) between the respective station entrances and bus stops, it really is six and half a dozen.

 

[RT4038]

In terms of the overall walking distance and walking environment (quality of urban realm, number of lanes crossed) between the respective station entrances and bus stops, it really is six and half a dozen.

But in terms of bus operation, the space available in front of Bamberg Station for a bus / taxi / short term parking hub, the width and free running of traffic of Luitpoldstrasse and Ludwigstrasse, and the road crossing the railway at Pfisterstrasse is not at all comparable with Rugby. (without considerable capital investment, at least)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Mar 2026 ==

In both cases there's a turn-up-and-go frequency between the town and the station.

So it's all integrated already, so not sure what the problem is......

 

[NCT]

But in terms of bus operation, the space available in front of Bamberg Station for a bus / taxi / short term parking hub, the width and free running of traffic of Luitpoldstrasse and Ludwigstrasse, and the road crossing the railway at Pfisterstrasse is not at all comparable with Rugby. (without considerable capital investment, at least)

Not saying there aren't wider physical differences, but in terms of the pedestrian journey between the station entrance and the existing nearest bus stops for journeys to/from town, do these things matter?

So it's all integrated already, so not sure what the problem is......

I don't think there's a problem either. If Bamberg represents reasonably good, so does Rugby.

 

[Mgameing123]

I'd like to see more buses in High Wycombe serve the railway station. The majority of bus routes in Wycombe do stop 6 minutes away from the train station, but that's really poor in my standards since I'm used to bus stations being right next to the train stations (since I now live in Denmark). And I don't really see why buses can't serve the railway station since it would only require a 3 minute detour.

 

[frankmoh]

One example of the railway and buses being integrated too much is at Bromley North. so many buses stop there that it needs 2 separate stops... all for a half-hourly shuttle service that goes 2 stops.

 

[NCT]

I'd like to see more buses in High Wycombe serve the railway station. The majority of bus routes in Wycombe do stop 6 minutes away from the train station, but that's really poor in my standards since I'm used to bus stations being right next to the train stations (since I now live in Denmark). And I don't really see why buses can't serve the railway station since it would only require a 3 minute detour.

Looks like a substantial proportion of routes (The One, 31, 33, 34, 41) do serve the Station Interchange stop right outside the station? Outside of these buses, how many routes don't serve the Castle Street / Crendon Street / High Street network of stops?

 

[Mgameing123]

Looks like a substantial proportion of routes (The One, 31, 33, 34, 41) do serve the Station Interchange stop right outside the station? Outside of these buses, how many routes don't serve the Castle Street / Crendon Street / High Street network of stops?

The 40, 130, 275, 300 and 850 don't come anywhere near the railway station. And even High Street/Castle Street isn't enough. You need buses to stop right outside the railway station if you want to provide a good interchange. It's good to note that walking from High Street to the station requires climbing a steep hill.

 

[NCT]

The bus stops at Berlin-Spandau and Fuerth (just outside Nuremberg) are all around the general road network. The bus station outside of Muenchen-Pasing is basically a 4-lane road with half the bus stops situated on the far side. The bus stops for Schiedam Centrum (Rotterdam) are on a desolate elevated highway (Horvathweg) outside the station train shed, and there is a non-trivial horizontal and vertical distance between the bus stops and the tram stop.

All examples are within what I'd consider reasonably good.

The 40, 130, 275, 300 and 850 don't come anywhere near the railway station. And even High Street/Castle Street isn't enough. You need buses to stop right outside the railway station if you want to provide a good interchange. It's good to note that walking from High Street to the station requires climbing a steep hill.

Ah, an active travel bonus, perfect.

 

[johncrossley]

The bus stops for Schiedam Centrum (Rotterdam) are on a desolate elevated highway (Horvathweg) outside the station train shed, and there is a non-trivial horizontal and vertical distance between the bus stops and the tram stop.

All examples are within what I'd consider reasonably good.

All bus stops are right next to entrances leading directly into the metro station/railway station complex, so there is no need to cross any roads. That is a 4-way rail/metro/tram/bus interchange so they've done pretty well in my opinion.

 

[NCT]

All bus stops are right next to entrances leading directly into the metro station/railway station complex, so there is no need to cross any roads. That is a 4-way rail/metro/tram/bus interchange so they've done pretty well in my opinion.

I don't get this bus station good / road bad dichotony.

Both bus stations and road environments can be good or bad. Busy bus stations where you have to cross multiple bays or cross to the other side (like Pasing) are no 'better' than crossing a bus-priority urban road with good public realm.

I would much prefer navigating a well designed townscape than a labyrinth of underground or 'within building' passageways. Or at least I don't think one model is any less valid than the other.

I'm a big fan of organic bus stations like Rugby Church Street / North Street.

 

[Tetchytyke]

In answer to the opening question, not having them on opposite sides of the town would help (Leeds, this means you !).

Leeds bus station being off to one side isn’t really an issue as that is mainly for out-of-town services.

Now, removing buses from outside Leeds railway station, that’s different. Still, at least you get your steps up.

 

[yorksrob]

Leeds bus station being off to one side isn’t really an issue as that is mainly for out-of-town services.

Now, removing buses from outside Leeds railway station, that’s different. Still, at least you get your steps up.

Or perhaps we just need later train services out of Leeds so I don't need to get bus/coach services in the first place. However, that's off topic.

 

[RT4038]

I'm a big fan of organic bus stations like Rugby Church Street / North Street.

Unfortunately, Developers and Town Centre Planners don't really agree with you - they don't like buses in town centres there at all. ('What we need to attract is the high spending SUV drivers, not the losers travelling in buses - they are for the workers and the Pound shop brigade - no money in them') Preferably move them out to side streets or either side of a ring road - if they have to be there keep the bus stops on the periphery and keep layover time to a minimum. However, as most bus routes nowadays have (often quite wide) loops at the suburban end in order to economically serve the greatest area of sprawling suburb, this then causes punctuality issues or layover at unsuitable points in the route inconveniencing the majority of passengers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't get this bus station good / road bad dichotony.

Both bus stations and road environments can be good or bad. Busy bus stations where you have to cross multiple bays or cross to the other side (like Pasing) are no 'better' than crossing a bus-priority urban road with good public realm.

And some things that look like bus stations are legally bus-only roads (e.g. The Point and the station forecourt in Milton Keynes), and I'm sure there are also some locations that look like roads but are legally bus stations i.e. not public highway.

You'd only really find out which it was if looking to operate your own private bus or coach to it, the ones that are public highway you could just drive it up (assuming the traffic restriction order wasn't registered local bus services only, but it mostly isn't, at least outside London), the ones that aren't you would have to arrange it and probably pay a fee.

 

[Mgameing123]

Unfortunately, Developers and Town Centre Planners don't really agree with you - they don't like buses in town centres there at all. ('What we need to attract is the high spending SUV drivers, not the losers travelling in buses - they are for the workers and the Pound shop brigade - no money in them') Preferably move them out to side streets or either side of a ring road - if they have to be there keep the bus stops on the periphery and keep layover time to a minimum. However, as most bus routes nowadays have (often quite wide) loops at the suburban end in order to economically serve the greatest area of sprawling suburb, this then causes punctuality issues or layover at unsuitable points in the route inconveniencing the majority of passengers.

Even though shop owners benefit from good bus access?

 

[NCT]

Unfortunately, Developers and Town Centre Planners don't really agree with you - they don't like buses in town centres there at all. ('What we need to attract is the high spending SUV drivers, not the losers travelling in buses - they are for the workers and the Pound shop brigade - no money in them') Preferably move them out to side streets or either side of a ring road - if they have to be there keep the bus stops on the periphery and keep layover time to a minimum. However, as most bus routes nowadays have (often quite wide) loops at the suburban end in order to economically serve the greatest area of sprawling suburb, this then causes punctuality issues or layover at unsuitable points in the route inconveniencing the majority of passengers.

I think this is an exaggerated version of events. That is not to say there isn't some tension between modal integration and the urban realm, and purists of one camp have a tendency to insinuate conspiracy from the other camp, where in reality it's often a pragmatic middle ground that you find. Most European cities and towns have an Old Town with a network of pedestrianised streets, with the bus station or main bus stop clusters on the edge of the Old Town, in the 'New Town' bit. Then the bus station / bus stop cluster becomes the catalyst for developing the other side into a 'New New Town', and if the bus stops are on the ring road, there's often a project to 'demotorway' it in appearance to make it part of the new integrated urban environment.

Both Rugby and Bamberg central bus stops / bus station follow this model to some extent.

Back to the topic of this thread, I'm not opposed to having pedestriansed plazas outside of main stations. In the case of Leeds, the 2000s arrangement of New Station Street being two lanes of bus bays probably was 'integration too far' at the expense of the urban environment. Complete pedestrianisation of New Station Street and high-quality walking routes onto Bishopsgate Street are appropriate for a central station generating high pedestrian flows, and it helps to have a buffer in multi-modal interchange links. Boar Lane acting as Leeds Station's bus station is completely appropriate in my view.

Leeds city centre is settling into a pattern of organic bus stations on Boar Lane and The Headrow, and I see absolutely no problem with it. I don't see a conspiracy in banishing buses further out either.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In day to day usage, how many people travelling into a town or a city centre are doing so in order to catch a train?

This is the issue that always gets forgotten in these discussions. Most people using Stockport bus station, for instance, are not heading to Stockport railway station. They're heading to the Merseyway shopping centre or they're heading towards the Market Place. You could have built a new bus station at Grand Central instead but that would be further away from the shops and bars which most bus users are heading to.

Bradford Interchange has always been a bit of a white elephant for this very reason. Most people don't catch the bus from the Interchange, they catch it from the city centre. It's only busy for the routes which don't go into the city centre.

Durham was mentioned before. There used to be regular buses up to the railway station- the 20 and 50 used to go up there and terminate at the turning circle at the south side of the station. Nobody used them so the bus companies stopped sending the buses up there.

I know we don't always agree but I think we're generally fairly grizzled in UK transport and especially the North East.

The fact is that very few people travel into town to catch a train. I know the usual people will say it's because the links aren't good enough, or the ticketing, or everything else but I really do recommend going to a Dutch train station in the provinces and then look to see how many people actually do it. Very few. Anyone who's been to Hartlepool interchange knows what solitude is.

The reality is that many rail stations are a) situated peripherally because our Victorian forebears didn't have the cash to get to the town/city centre and b) have little available space nearby in any case for a terminal. So it's not a case of bus operators not caring but that the financial cost of extending routes (requiring higher PVRs) simply isn't worth it. Remember, adding a bus to the PVR is about £200k (ish). I was waiting at Bristol Temple Meads last week and the delays to services were terrible. It's not a surprise that operators are selective in what they do. In another town close to me (Frome), buses all head via the market place but then a choice... the hospital, the station or the large Sainsbury's - the store generates the most traffic and the hospital is a laudable and useful traffic objective.

I'll give you a few locations to think of how you'd do that - Rugby, Darlington, Salisbury, Winchester, Durham, Lancaster for instance, or say Northampton where service extension would come at a huge cost.

Darlington is enjoying a lovely rebuild and a bus station could've been part of that...but given the experience of extending some routes there in the past, it's simply not worth it. Salisbury is another one I know - the idea of trying to get buses across the city centre to a place with little to no space.

There are some places where I think that bus services and rail could be better aligned. Chippenham is a fairly easy one to solve off the top of my head.

 

[The exile]

The reality is that many rail stations are a) situated peripherally because our Victorian forebears didn't have the cash to get to the town/city centre and b) have little available space nearby in any case for a terminal. So it's not a case of bus operators not caring but that the financial cost of extending routes (requiring higher PVRs) simply isn't worth it. Remember, adding a bus to the PVR is about £200k (ish). I was waiting at Bristol Temple Meads last week and the delays to services were terrible.

Depending on where you’re coming from there’s a lot better places to change for a bus into central Bristol…

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Not aware that we have ever tried full integration here - that means through ticketing and, now, cross-mode delay repay.
If a bus to “big city” called in at “outer suburb” interchange where people had the choice (on the ticket they had already paid for) between changing for the train that ran every fifteen minutes into town taking 10 minutes or staying in the bus which took 45 minutes serving lots of inner suburbs on the way that would be ideal.

I didn’t realise how advanced we were in Bristol. Both Parkway and Temple Meads have easy interchange between Inter-City trains and local buses. Moreover, if starting your journey by train you can buy a ‘PlusBus’ option to your rail ticket which gives you unlimited local bus travel on any operator for a modest price. In fact, I believe ‘PlusBus’ is available in quite a few places.

PlusBus - Add bus travel to your train ticket

PlusBus is a discount price ticket for unlimited bus travel around town and city. Adds bus travel to your train ticket.

www.plusbus.info

 

[The exile]

I didn’t realise how advanced we were in Bristol. Both Parkway and Temple Meads have easy interchange between Inter-City trains and local buses. Moreover, if starting your journey by train you can buy a ‘PlusBus’ option to your rail ticket which gives you unlimited local bus travel on any operator for a modest price. In fact, I believe ‘PlusBus’ is available in quite a few places.

PlusBus - Add bus travel to your train ticket

PlusBus is a discount price ticket for unlimited bus travel around town and city. Adds bus travel to your train ticket.

www.plusbus.info

And if travelling in the area, the Freedom Travelpass.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Depending on where you’re coming from there’s a lot better places to change for a bus into central Bristol…

Indeed - almost as if there’s not a definitive way of doing things but something more nuanced based on local geography and demographics