Trivia: Closed passenger lines that have now been reopened and electrified

[Steve Harris]

I'm not sure that's correct. Memory is that it started as a (Western Region class 116) dmu service, and certainly I photographed such a working at Clapham Junction in September 1996. The critical bit would be Willesden Junction to Mitre Bridge Junction, which would not have been electrified as part of the Eurostar scheme.

You are correct apart from being Class 117 DMU's rather than 116's. See post #57 for proof !

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Was it not the case that the 3rd rail electrification was comparatively recent? I travelled on it 1970 and I think I remember it was still diesel. And, in the 1960s I remember walking alongside a boarded track going into Stratford shed and was surprised to encounter a passenger dmu presumably heading for Stratford LL.

You may well be right. I can remember an article which was in Rail magazine back in the 1980's. I can certainly remember a picture of a Class 105 Cravens DMU east of Dalston Jnc, now if it was working from Stratford or North Woolwich I can't remember. I think back then pretty much everything from Willesden Junction used to work to/from Broad Street. With a DMU service from Dalston to Stratford.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Mar 2026 ==

Would it date from the closure of Broad Street in the 1980s and the need to divert the Richmond trains somewhere.

You may well be right. But don't forget that the Graham's Road curve was built so that Class 313's could run into Liverpool Street !

I think the NLL (and WLL) has seen lots of changes in my lifetime what with changes in destinations (Broad St/Liverpool St/North Woolwich, Richmond/Watford Jnc/Clapham Jnc) and service patterns due to the parts of the line being unelectrified then electrified DC, then AC.

 

[MadMac]

Kilmarnock to Barassie Junction.

Notwithstanding the electrification aspect, was this ever formally “closed to passengers”?

 

[Class15]

-Junction Road Junction to Gospel Oak has recently gained a single EMU, the 23.24 (Sun) Barking Riverside to Willesden Jn, it’s first electric service other than diverted WCML
sleepers.

Not sure about this one.

1. Minor point but I’m not aware of sleeper diverts going this way and not via Camden Road.
2. Are you sure the old Woodgrange Park - Willesden parliamentary service didn’t continue running for a bit when the line was wired but the 172s were still there?

 

[GraphitProjekt]

Not sure about this one.

1. Minor point but I’m not aware of sleeper diverts going this way and not via Camden Road.

Furthermore, the overground parliamentary uses the "New Lines" connection which allows access to Willesden Jnc L.L and is therefore also a rarely used AC/DC changeover.
But if sleeper trains went on to NLL at Willesden it'd more likely be the "City Lines" connection which is AC throughout between WCML and NLL avoiding any platform at Willesden, while New Lines is between Watford DC and NLL

 

[Steve Harris]

Furthermore, the overground parliamentary uses the "New Lines" connection which allows access to Willesden Jnc L.L and is therefore also a rarely used AC/DC changeover.
But if sleeper trains went on to NLL at Willesden it'd more likely be the "City Lines" connection which is AC throughout between WCML and NLL avoiding any platform at Willesden, while New Lines is between Watford DC and NLL

I believe the Cally Sleeper is normally booked via Primrose Hill when it's diverted via the ECML. However, it has used the "City Lines" in the past (youtube footage proves this), presumably only when the Primrose Hill route is unavailable (maintenance) or it's a late notice thing*.

*Which is a bit of a pain as I require the City Lines for track bashing purposes, but I can never see the route planned in RTT when I look.

 

[thenorthern]

Looking at a map the Soho Junction to Perry Bar junction was closed to passengers in 1941 and I think it was electrified as part of the other lines in the West Midlands in 1966. I know some of the Rugeley Trent Valley to Birmingham International trains use that line. I am unsure when they started using the line rather than going via Aston.

 

[Magdalia]

I can remember an article which was in Rail magazine back in the 1980's. I can certainly remember a picture of a Class 105 Cravens DMU east of Dalston Jnc, now if it was working from Stratford or North Woolwich I can't remember. I think back then pretty much everything from Willesden Junction used to work to/from Broad Street. With a DMU service from Dalston to Stratford.

There was a North Woolwich-Camden Road DMU service that started in 1979, with Hackney Central and Hackney Wick stations opening in 1980.

 

[Man of Kent]

There was a North Woolwich-Camden Road DMU service that started in 1979, with Hackney Central and Hackney Wick stations opening in 1980.

Prior to which the service had run to Tottenham Hale. When it was diverted to Camden Road, Lea Bridge was closed - which of course is now open again and served by electric trains.

 

[Spartacus]

It was a very early closure and reopening but in 1840 the line between Leeds Marsh Lane and York Junction, now Gascoigne Wood Jn, was closed to passengers for 10 years (and for two years in it's entirety) by the infamous George Hudson so services had to run via his more lucrative but longer & slower North Midland route via Castleford. The line's now part way through the process of electrification; ironically during engineering for it services are diverted via Hudson's route!

 

[Magdalia]

Prior to which the service had run to Tottenham Hale. When it was diverted to Camden Road, Lea Bridge was closed - which of course is now open again and served by electric trains.

That's not correct. From 1979 Lea Bridge was served by a Stratford-Tottenham Hale shuttle, and it closed in 1985.

 

[Bald Rick]

No....they were routed via North Pole Junction and onto the Great Western Main Line.

Until the N Pole route closed, and then they were routed via Willesden SW sidings to Acton Wells / Acton Bank. Parts of which are not (yet) electrified.

Not sure about this one.

1. Minor point but I’m not aware of sleeper diverts going this way and not via Camden Road.

Yes they have gone that way, via the City Lines (which, incidentally, were the first lines on the network to be electrified post privatisation, ie where the project was conceived and delivered in the post ‘94 era).

 

[Class15]

Yes they have gone that way, via the City Lines (which, incidentally, were the first lines on the network to be electrified post privatisation, ie where the project was conceived and delivered in the post ‘94 era).

To the best of my knowledge, they have all gone via Camden Road, which the city lines include. I’m very well aware they have gone via the City Lines (indeed, I’ve actually seen them on stations on the Gospel Oak - Willesden section!) but what I meant is taking the Harringay Curve.

 

[Taunton]

I have it at 13th May 1985 for Dalston Kingsland to North Woolwich. Just overlapping by a year with Broad Street which closed 27 June 1986.
The extension to North Woolwich introduced a new 11kV grid connection at Maiden Lane around the St Pancras area, and at West Ham. The rest of the infrastructure westwards dating back all the way to 1916 and supplied by a power station at Stonebridge Park. Maiden Lane 11kV still exists powering the just Highbury DC substation for the Windrush Line, and is a backup for the Watford DC.

I didn't know there was a DC substation at West Ham. I always thought the entire DC line south of Stratford was powered just down the conductor rail, hence the reduced service south of Stratford, and reduction to single line beyond Custom House so there was never more than one train there.

I did see that last Cravens diesel depart North Woolwich, to a fusillade of detonators laid in the dark right next to the newly energised conductor rail, and also the first North London train arrive at Liverpool Street one Monday morning, with notably few passengers. I didn't realise they were a year apart.

 

[Bald Rick]

To the best of my knowledge, they have all gone via Camden Road, which the city lines include. I’m very well aware they have gone via the City Lines (indeed, I’ve actually seen them on stations on the Gospel Oak - Willesden section!) but what I meant is taking the Harringay Curve.

Ah I see.

I’m 99% sure a few northbound have gone via Haringay. Less confident about southbound.

 

[Class15]

Ah I see.

I’m 99% sure a few northbound have gone via Haringay. Less confident about southbound.

That’s interesting, thank you!

(also can I just say very pedantically that “Haringay” somehow manages to go halfway between the borough name and the place name!)

 

[Bald Rick]

That’s interesting, thank you!

(also can I just say very pedantically that “Haringay” somehow manages to go halfway between the borough name and the place name!)

Yep that’s why I wrote it that way, and definitely not because I’m incompetent

 

[GraphitProjekt]

I didn't know there was a DC substation at West Ham. I always thought the entire DC line south of Stratford was powered just down the conductor rail, hence the reduced service south of Stratford, and reduction to single line beyond Custom House so there was never more than one train there.

The North Woolwich extension seems to have quite well provisioned in this regard. West Ham wasn't a DC substation, it was where BR recieved 11kV circuits from the local grid, same as Maiden Lane.

11kV cables then ran to DC substations at Stratford Market and Custom House as well as two TP Huts in a row at Hackney and Lea Jnc. I don't know why they did that with the TPHs, maybe the make easier emergency isolations around the various yards and sidings around Lea Jnc.

Maiden Lane grid supply is still in use for Highbury DC substation which is the last remnant of the original NLL 3rd rail infrastructure. Although there is mysterious mention of a Stratford International 11kV which was possibly put in place when the line was handed over to DLR. To have that name definitely suggests it's from the late 2000s.

I'm not sure what became of West Ham 11kV or the DC substations, maybe the DLR reused them? Mentions of "West Ham BR" are obfuscated by the fact there is a 25kV feeder station of the same name for LT&S which also has a murky history.

 

[d9009alycidon]

Bathgate - Airdrie?

The section from Airdrie to Drumgelloch can claim to have been opened as a single track, doubled, closed to passengers, singled, closed to freight, reopened a single track, electrified, temporarily closed and doubled!

 

[Strathclyder]

The section from Airdrie to Drumgelloch can claim to have been opened as a single track, doubled, closed to passengers, singled, closed to freight, reopened a single track, electrified, temporarily closed and doubled!

I presume something similar could be said of the Livingston/Uphall-Bathgate section? I know there were several rail-connected industries on that half of the line at various times, the car trains to/from Bathgate are what most readily spring to mind for me. I presume all had gone by the time the A+B project started in earnest?

 

[Taunton]

The North Woolwich extension seems to have quite well provisioned in this regard. West Ham wasn't a DC substation, it was where BR recieved 11kV circuits from the local grid, same as Maiden Lane.

I'm not sure what became of West Ham 11kV or the DC substations, maybe the DLR reused them? Mentions of "West Ham BR" are obfuscated by the fact there is a 25kV feeder station of the same name for LT&S which also has a murky history.

Interesting, thank you. Power supply on the LTS side would have been 6.25kV until the early 1980s, which presumably required more frequent substations.

I did hear the DLR electrical installation had a bad initial history on their replacing line here in 2005, being installed but all stolen, possibly twice (!) before being energised, which notably delayed the opening.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

Interesting, thank you. Power supply on the LTS side would have been 6.25kV until the early 1980s, which presumably required more frequent substations.

In general yes, although this wasn't that pronounced on LT&S as the central sections between Barking and Leigh were always 25kV. Fenchurch to Barking was upgraded I think in the late 1980s, perhaps 1988? In part spurred on by a desire to access Ripple Lane with class 90s. The 25kV substations from that upgrade at West Ham FS and Fenchurch Street TSL look decidedly in the 1990s style of SMOS rather than the early/mid 1980s metal box fashion. Barking was always able to send 25kV eastwards and 6.25kV east. West Ham FS seems to have directly replaced Gas Factory Jnc 6.25kV FS. So even though 25kV requires fewer supply points, in practice for LT&S this wasn't really the case as (I would guess) West Ham has to exist to account for a total loss of Barking FS - it also came in useful later to feed the Goblin Line.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

I presume something similar could be said of the Livingston/Uphall-Bathgate section? I know there were several rail-connected industries on that half of the line at various times, the car trains to/from Bathgate are what most readily spring to mind for me. I presume all had gone by the time the A+B project started in earnest?

The title of the thread is "closed to passengers..." so the line east of Bathgate (closed to passengers 1956, reopened 1986, electrified 2010) counts, as well as west of Bathgate (closed at same time, electrified and reopened 2010)

 

[Strathclyder]

The title of the thread is "closed to passengers..." so the line east of Bathgate (closed to passengers 1956, reopened 1986, electrified 2010) counts, as well as west of Bathgate (closed at same time, electrified and reopened 2010)

Yeah sorry, that's basically what I meant. Got my wires frayed, been a long day.

 

[zwk500]

Less confident about southbound.

I'm fairly sure it hasn't, because southbound can't access the Harringay Park Curve directly.

Might have used it if terminating at King's Cross and then running empty to Ferme Park and reverse.

 

[Magdalia]

I'm fairly sure it hasn't, because southbound can't access the Harringay Park Curve directly.

Might have used it if terminating at King's Cross and then running empty to Ferme Park and reverse.

Southbound ECML trains require a double reversal over the Hornsey carriage flyover to access the Harringay Park Curve. The reversing sidings can take 12 car EMUs but I suspect that a full length Caledonian sleeper would be too long.

However, Hull Trains have done this move, diverting to St Pancras, during blockades at Kings Cross. These trains also did Junction Road Junction to Carlton Road Junction, then a further reversal on the MML which I think was at West Hampstead Thameslink. Hull Trains definitely did this with diesels but I'm not sure whether it has happened since they got electric trains.

 

[mike57]

Indeed.
Olympia was my local station in summer 1983 and I had a job in West Croydon, shift work as a computer operator at Philips, City House (now flats) and I used the shuttle service when I could, it was a quaint backwater railway then

I used the Olympia service from Clapham Junction for about 6 months during the 1977/8 period, I had a job in west London, not far from Sheperherd Bush, and Olympia was about 15 minutes walk. Although a sparse rush hour service, the train was far quicker than the alternatives, 49 bus or driving (and then parking which was a real pain as there was no work car park). My memories are mainly Class 33 and 4 coaches (didnt realise it was a 'class 33' at this time, just thought of it as the same engine as you got on a Sailibury train), but using it over the winter on occasions other things would turn up, a DEMU a couple of times, and a varied assortment of coaching stock. Not sure of line speeds today, but it was a very leisurely run out of the far platforms (2 or 3 I think) at Clapham junction, over the river and through West Brompton.

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Hull Trains definitely did this with diesels but I'm not sure whether it has happened since they got electric trains.

During recent (last 2-3 years) Kings Cross closures they have gone Doncaster - Chesterfield (avoiding Sheffield) - MML all the way into London. Obviously quite a bit of diesel running, but they are Bi modes similar to TPE stock.

 

[zwk500]

Southbound ECML trains require a double reversal over the Hornsey carriage flyover to access the Harringay Park Curve. The reversing sidings can take 12 car EMUs but I suspect that a full length Caledonian sleeper would be too long.

They can (hence 'not directly'), requiring Goods Line Authority to reverse from the Up Side and over the flyover (although that's not a big deal as the Sleeper needs GLA when reversing in Wembley Yard anyway). Reversals can take place on either Up Slow and Down Slow 2 if length is an issue.

However, the bigger issue is that in order to do such a move, the Sleeper would need to propel over the flyover (which would limit length to fitting behind Sig.443 on Down Slow 2 to avoid propelling past more than 1 main aspect), or a second loco to attach.
It's not impossible for the Sleeper to do the reversal, it's just rather impractical, and at least 2 easier options exist (via Camden Road or terminating at King's Cross)

 

[ac6000cw]

Looking at a map the Soho Junction to Perry Bar junction was closed to passengers in 1941 and I think it was electrified as part of the other lines in the West Midlands in 1966. I know some of the Rugeley Trent Valley to Birmingham International trains use that line. I am unsure when they started using the line rather than going via Aston.

I lived in the West Midlands in the early 1970s and IIRC the New Street - Walsall EMU service was split into fast trains via Soho and slow trains via Aston. I don't know how soon after electrification the via-Soho EMUs started running.

 

[gg1]

Yes...the North and South Tyneside lines which were de-electrified from third rail to diesel, before being de-electrified on the overhead system as part of the Metro network.

A very short section of the Morecambe branch is another slightly more tenuous example. The approaches to the current Morecambe station from the point where the Heysham and Lancaster routes join was part of the Midland Railway Lancaster Green Ayre to Morecambe electrficiation scheme. The rest of the route was closed in the 60s but that small section remains as part of the current unelectrified route.

 

[Rescars]

The line through Micham Junction opened as a horse powered freight tramway (Surrey Iron Railway), was closed and converted to steam powered conventional rail by LBSC, was electrified with third rail by the Southern, then closed again to be reopened with OLE as part of Tramlink. Does this count or does it stretch the OP too far?