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ScotRail Blue Stripe Mk3 Sleeper 10680

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43095

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Hi all

I'm a new poster to this forum.

Have spent quite a while fruitlessly searching for a photo of the elusive Mk3 Sleeper in InterCity Executive Livery, but with a Rail Blue stripe, painted for ScotRail in 1985 or 1986.

There is a previous thread on this which is closed to new replies: Scotrail Blue stripe (Mk3) Sleepers 10578 & 10610

Totally randomly I have stumbled across the elusive photo today - it was posted on an RMWeb thread a couple of years ago. It turns on the coach in the picture is 10680, not 10578 or 10610. So I have no idea whether 10578 or 10610 were ever painted like this too, or not.

Here is the link:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/16508...otos-from-flickr/page/80/#findComment-5101947

Its the post from 27 Feb 2023 by nightstar.train - scroll down to about 3/4 of the way down the page.

Apparently it was originally posted in 2006 to a Modern Traction Photo Group (image credit to Peter Kellett) but that site not longer exists. I've done a reverse Google image search and can't find it posted anywhere else other than RMWeb.

Hope that helps.

Tom R.
 
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Helvellyn

Helvellyn

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Great find. Interesting that the Sleeper remained branded as InterCity Sleeper and not ScotRail Sleeper.
 
WesternLancer

WesternLancer

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43095 said:
Hi all

I'm a new poster to this forum.

Have spent quite a while fruitlessly searching for a photo of the elusive Mk3 Sleeper in InterCity Executive Livery, but with a Rail Blue stripe, painted for ScotRail in 1985 or 1986.

There is a previous thread on this which is closed to new replies: Scotrail Blue stripe (Mk3) Sleepers 10578 & 10610

Totally randomly I have stumbled across the elusive photo today - it was posted on an RMWeb thread a couple of years ago. It turns on the coach in the picture is 10680, not 10578 or 10610. So I have no idea whether 10578 or 10610 were ever painted like this too, or not.

Here is the link:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/16508...otos-from-flickr/page/80/#findComment-5101947

Its the post from 27 Feb 2023 by nightstar.train - scroll down to about 3/4 of the way down the page.

Apparently it was originally posted in 2006 to a Modern Traction Photo Group (image credit to Peter Kellett) but that site not longer exists. I've done a reverse Google image search and can't find it posted anywhere else other than RMWeb.

Hope that helps.

Tom R.
Click to expand...
That pictures looks like a rare find - a copy of that needs backing up somewhere!
 
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irish_rail

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I'm too thick to work out how to upload pictures, but there is a decent photo c1986 of 10680 in scotrail sleeper livery at St Phillips Marsh in Bristol. The photo appears in the excellent Stephen E Jones book about is career working at SPM depot.
 
hexagon789

hexagon789

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43095 said:
Hi all

I'm a new poster to this forum.

Have spent quite a while fruitlessly searching for a photo of the elusive Mk3 Sleeper in InterCity Executive Livery, but with a Rail Blue stripe, painted for ScotRail in 1985 or 1986.

There is a previous thread on this which is closed to new replies: Scotrail Blue stripe (Mk3) Sleepers 10578 & 10610

Totally randomly I have stumbled across the elusive photo today - it was posted on an RMWeb thread a couple of years ago. It turns on the coach in the picture is 10680, not 10578 or 10610. So I have no idea whether 10578 or 10610 were ever painted like this too, or not.

Here is the link:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/16508...otos-from-flickr/page/80/#findComment-5101947

Its the post from 27 Feb 2023 by nightstar.train - scroll down to about 3/4 of the way down the page.

Apparently it was originally posted in 2006 to a Modern Traction Photo Group (image credit to Peter Kellett) but that site not longer exists. I've done a reverse Google image search and can't find it posted anywhere else other than RMWeb.

Hope that helps.

Tom R.
Click to expand...
As far as I am aware only four vehicles were painted in the original BR ScotRail livery with the dark blue (standard rail blue) stripe, instead of the later Caledonian Blue stripe.

Two Mk3A TSO - 12019 and 12051
Mk2D TSOT - 6601
Mk3A SLE - 10680

Of course, if you read that RMweb thread, you'll see I was proved wrong about the Mk3 Sleeper! ;)

So I will be carefully accurate and say that these four vehicles are the ones for which I have saved photographic proof in which you can read the vehicle numbers and are in the original trial BR Blue Stripe ScotRail livery.
 
WesternLancer

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318266 said:
The site it appears to be originally from appears to no longer exist... so that would imply to me that it would have been lost forever had it not been noticed on that wee forum!
Click to expand...
Yes. That was my thought too.
 
WesternLancer

WesternLancer

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Helvellyn

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Furrball said:
This has been posted to Facebook today

www.facebook.com

British Railways, MK1, MK2, MK3, MK4 & MK5 Coaches. | Doncaster 22nd May 1986 | Facebook

Doncaster 22nd May 1986. SLEP 10501 on delivery. Oh and the locomotive is 31245.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

Doncaster 22nd May 1985. SLEP 10501 on delivery.
Click to expand...
By on delivery it must mean from a classified overhaul because it was built in 1980. 10501 was also a Bounds Green allocated example.

Being 1985 I wonder if there was still debate about how wide the adoption of InterCity Executive livery should be? Prior to 1985 I think it was the APT, the Mark 2 Manchester Pullmans, the Gatwick Express converted stock and the two prototype WR refurbished HSTs that carried it. Use of a BR blue stripe could have been for a more general user livery.
 
43096

43096

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Helvellyn said:
Being 1985 I wonder if there was still debate about how wide the adoption of InterCity Executive livery should be? Prior to 1985 I think it was the APT, the Mark 2 Manchester Pullmans, the Gatwick Express converted stock and the two prototype WR refurbished HSTs that carried it. Use of a BR blue stripe could have been for a more general user livery.
Click to expand...
I am going to go further with that suggestion. Was there a plan for a night train variant of InterCity Executive livery using a blue stripe rather than red? Hence the “InterCity Sleeper” branding.
 
Sun Chariot

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43096 said:
I am going to go further with that suggestion. Was there a plan for a night train variant of InterCity Executive livery using a blue stripe rather than red? Hence the “InterCity Sleeper” branding.
Click to expand...
The Monastral blue stripe was, from online sources I found, trialled with Chris Green's blessing (whilst at the helm of BR ScotRail).
Very much day coaches, too; as evidenced by all these Flickr images of push-pull sets. I have also seen - but cannot now find - one Mk2 aircon (FO iirc) with same treatment.

Was Mk3 10680 Scottish-region allocated within the period 1984-1988? That would certainly account for its inclusion in this livery-trial. It's my era but I was into covering routes, not getting numbers.

www.flickr.com

6601 Microbuffet at Glasgow Queen Street. 27.09.84.

Explore freightfrog (Gordon Fuller)'s 9856 photos on Flickr!
www.flickr.com www.flickr.com
ScotRail MK 3 Coach SC 12051 in new livery.
www.flickr.com

Mk3s - Montrose - Experimental ScotRail livery

Mk3s - Montrose - Experimental (?) ScotRail livery. Prior to the adoption of the light blue for ScotRail vehicles I noted several Mk3s (mostly on the E&G push-pull services) in a Rail Blue (?) variation of "Intercity Red Stripe" livery. The treatment of the beige above the cantrail strip also...
www.flickr.com www.flickr.com
DBSO Inter-City Scotrail + Rail Blue stripe Mk3
 
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hexagon789

hexagon789

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Helvellyn said:
By on delivery it must mean from a classified overhaul because it was built in 1980. 10501 was also a Bounds Green allocated example.

Being 1985 I wonder if there was still debate about how wide the adoption of InterCity Executive livery should be? Prior to 1985 I think it was the APT, the Mark 2 Manchester Pullmans, the Gatwick Express converted stock and the two prototype WR refurbished HSTs that carried it. Use of a BR blue stripe could have been for a more general user livery.
Click to expand...
43096 said:
I am going to go further with that suggestion. Was there a plan for a night train variant of InterCity Executive livery using a blue stripe rather than red? Hence the “InterCity Sleeper” branding.
Click to expand...
Definitely intended for ScotRail.

The first vehicles in the rail Blue stripe version appeared in September 1984, with 'Scotrail' lettering.
Sun Chariot said:
The Monastral blue stripe was, from online sources I found, trialled with Chris Green's blessing (whilst at the helm of BR ScotRail).
Very much day coaches, too; as evidenced by all these Flickr images of push-pull sets. I have also seen - but cannot now find - one Mk2 aircon (FO iirc) with same treatment.

Was Mk3 10680 Scottish-region allocated within the period 1984-1988? That would certainly account for its inclusion in this livery-trial.

www.flickr.com

6601 Microbuffet at Glasgow Queen Street. 27.09.84.

Explore freightfrog (Gordon Fuller)'s 9856 photos on Flickr!
www.flickr.com www.flickr.com
ScotRail MK 3 Coach SC 12051 in new livery.
www.flickr.com

Mk3s - Montrose - Experimental ScotRail livery

Mk3s - Montrose - Experimental (?) ScotRail livery. Prior to the adoption of the light blue for ScotRail vehicles I noted several Mk3s (mostly on the E&G push-pull services) in a Rail Blue (?) variation of "Intercity Red Stripe" livery. The treatment of the beige above the cantrail strip also...
www.flickr.com www.flickr.com
DBSO Inter-City Scotrail + Rail Blue stripe Mk3
Click to expand...
Thanks for including some relevant dated photos, I'll add the Mk2D TSOT 6607:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/eastfield/8710840555/
(Link shows image of Mk2D TSOT in original Rail Blue Stripe 'Scotrail' livery, formed in a Glasgow to Aberdeen train in September 1984.

"47706 passes Cadder Signalbox on the 15.25 Glasgow to Aberdeen service.
Behind the loco is the first of the new ScotRail livered MK 2 coaches, Sc 6607.( the 'rail blue' stripe later changed to a lighter blue)

17/9/84")​


That was the first vehicle so-treated.
 
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hexagon789

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Sun Chariot said:
Legend - that's the photo I'd seen previously. My memory was confusing the TSOT, pictured, with a photograph of a ScotRail (Saltire blue stripe) Mk2d FK at Crewe.
Click to expand...
There were a couple vehicles done in error, one was a Mk2E TSO based at Polmadie for CrossCountry work, I forget the background of the Mk2D FK though, but there was a iscussion of it over on RMweb I'll have a look for.

The sole retained Mk2Z FK off the original early-1970s Mk2 push-pull sets gained the later version ScotRail livery but was withdrawn quite early due to asbestos contamination.
 
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hexagon789 said:
There were a couple vehicles done in error, one was a Mk2E TSO based at Polmadie for CrossCountry work
Click to expand...
I can't recall its number but I do remember riding on it all the way from Reading to Glasgow Central sometime in the mid-eighties (possibly in 1987).
 
hexagon789

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Beebman said:
I can't recall its number but I do remember riding on it all the way from Reading to Glasgow Central sometime in the mid-eighties (possibly in 1987).
Click to expand...
The 2E TSO was 5813 and the 2D FK was 13566.
 
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Helvellyn

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hexagon789 said:
The sole retained Mk2Z FK off the original early-1970s Mk2 push-pull sets gained the later version ScotRail livery but was withdrawn quite early due to asbestos contamination.
Click to expand...
I believe that was 13424, operating with the Mark 2 TSOs and one of the spare DBSOs (there were originally ten to work with seven sets of Mark 3A stock). It was nominally replaced by Mark 2E FO 3265.
 
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