Tavistock - Bere Alston Feasibility Study in jeopardy. But what could be done if the money was available?

[35B]

Well, for those who were tired of this thread going on and on....I found the way to kill it. Just quote sections of the Green Book and silence will reign. Just to finally stamp on the thread to finish it off, here is another bit.

This book should be passed on to the Reduced Shakespeare Company, who reduce his plays to a couple of paragraphs. Make of the below what you will......

The Green Book

UK government guidance on appraisal.

www.gov.uk

And your problem with this is what precisely?

PS - the Reduced Shakespeare Company were (are?) very funny, but miss a great deal out.

 

[Brush 4]

No problem for me, I didn't write it. It is clearly too much, literally for others to digest or understand.

 

[Starmill]

The better German position (debt and interest) is only a relatively recent trend. German debt (59% of GDP) was greater than UK debt (38%) in 2000, so it is not the main driver of the relatively lower transport infrastructure investment in the UK during the last 25 years.

That's true and if our (credible, mostly) budget forecasts showed our debt to GDP ratio falling in the next ten years to be similar to what it is today in Germany we'd probably be benefiting today from much reduced borrowing costs. Straight up 10 year gilt rates are a sensible quick comparison between rated borrowers, but also only part of the story as maturity times and any proportion of variable-rate bonds are also influential. If I were an investor looking for 10 year maturity fixed rate bonds I'd definitely not be at all interested in lending to the UK for anything less than the current market rates around 4.5%.

 

[Xavi]

That's true and if our (credible, mostly) budget forecasts showed our debt to GDP ratio falling in the next ten years to be similar to what it is today in Germany we'd probably be benefiting today from much reduced borrowing costs. Straight up 10 year gilt rates are a sensible quick comparison between rated borrowers, but also only part of the story as maturity times and any proportion of variable-rate bonds are also influential. If I were an investor looking for 10 year maturity fixed rate bonds I'd definitely not be at all interested in lending to the UK for anything less than the current market rates around 4.5%.

I agree. Unfortunately, it was the past not the present when greater investment was viable.

 

[Snow1964]

BBC have uploaded an old Nationwide feature about Tavistock station in mid 1970s

Quite interesting to see how the former station master kept it even after closure, and the video will be interesting to anyone interested in potential line reopening

 

[Ashley Hill]

It’s surprising just how much survived until the mid 70s. He must have been there when the Western ran through in 1969.

 

[izvor]

"Up to 800 people each week". Hmm, I wonder why it closed?

 

[martin butler]

"Up to 800 people each week". Hmm, I wonder why it closed?

Because someone decided there was no need for two routes between Exeter and Plymouth, Buts what's strange is that there were still two routes between London and Exeter, even if one was now reduced to single track,west of Salisbury .

It could be put down to inter regional rivalry from the days when GWR, and Southern both operated routes well into the west country, I wonder, though, had the old Southern Routes not been axed, would the communities they served had experienced the growth that other towns that kept their services experienced .

 

[30907]

"Up to 800 people each week". Hmm, I wonder why it closed?

That's up to 70 departing and 70 arriving per weekday ("Sunday being a dies non unless the day of issue") - it's about what Eggesford gets currently.

Because someone decided there was no need for two routes between Exeter and Plymouth, Buts what's strange is that there were still two routes between London and Exeter, even if one was now reduced to single track,west of Salisbury .

Not strange at all, as Salisbury to Exeter was busy enough to rationalise, West of Exeter was always much quieter.

I wonder, though, had the old Southern Routes not been axed, would the communities they served had experienced the growth that other towns that kept their services experienced .

I thought the argument was that Tavistock HAD experienced growth?

 

[JamesT]

No road does either,it may be worth googling “is motoring subsidised in the uk” and you will find the subsidy for motorists is eye watering,me as a non-driver is subsidising people to use their own vehicle for their own use,railways are subsidised for the use of everyone

That's very debateable, you have to assign various externalities to road traffic to get it to being a net subsidy. (And nobody ever seems to try and assign the same externalities to rail)
That the railway is for everyone and roads are not is simply nonsense. Everyone benefits from the road system, the vast majority of freight is carried by road, largely on trips that cannot be substituted by rail even if there was the capacity. Public transport and active travel also use the road system. Meanwhile, only a small fraction of the population is using the railway frequently.

 

[The Planner]

No road does either,it may be worth googling “is motoring subsidised in the uk” and you will find the subsidy for motorists is eye watering,me as a non-driver is subsidising people to use their own vehicle for their own use,railways are subsidised for the use of everyone

So is public transport, ie buses not included in that, they are for the use of everyone?

I’m shocked at the anti-rail attitude here especially regarding the cost,i wonder if people are aware that motoring is heavily subsidised in this country,I don’t drive yet I’m subsidising a motorist to drive their own personal vehicle for their own personal gain,railways are subsidised so they can be used by everyone,if railways are so bad then why do top quality countries like Switzerland invest in railways and countries like Donald Trump’s USA invest in roads,the comments I’ve seen here against railway reopenings are very similar to those I’ve seen on a pro-Trump forum,those against are only thinking of themselves and not the wider community,just google about driving subsidies in the uk and the numbers are eye watering

No, its people understanding the bigger picture. Comparing it to supporting Trump is nonsense.

 

[35B]

I’m shocked at the anti-rail attitude here especially regarding the cost,i wonder if people are aware that motoring is heavily subsidised in this country,I don’t drive yet I’m subsidising a motorist to drive their own personal vehicle for their own personal gain,railways are subsidised so they can be used by everyone,if railways are so bad then why do top quality countries like Switzerland invest in railways and countries like Donald Trump’s USA invest in roads,the comments I’ve seen here against railway reopenings are very similar to those I’ve seen on a pro-Trump forum,those against are only thinking of themselves and not the wider community,just google about driving subsidies in the uk and the numbers are eye watering

This rail lover would dearly love a load of reopenings to happen. But with limited resources, they need to be focused so that they deliver value, not just fulfil wishlists. The discussion on this thread explores those issues and what they mean with reference to this particular example.

 

[zwk500]

That's up to 70 departing and 70 arriving per weekday ("Sunday being a dies non unless the day of issue") - it's about what Eggesford gets currently.

Important to note though that Eggesford is a loop on the line to Barnstaple - which gets 1,200% of the pasenger traffic (0.6m vs 0.05m). The balance of keeping a station open on a line that would stay open regardless is fundmentally different to keeping a branch open solely for the purpose of serving a low-used station.