In a dilemma, desperate for advice - Witness Statement Receipt

[RoFo3000]

I boarded a train at a station that didn't have barriers, hence I was able to get on the train without having yet bought my ticket.

The inspector came to check tickets and as I was buying it on my phone, my signal dipped out so it wasn't loading. I started to panic and told him that I had already bought it and scanned at the station (a panicked lie, which caused him to be suspicious I'm sure)

So I eventually buy the ticket on the app, he scans it, and can see I've literally just bought it. I apologised for lying, he seemed to appreciate this, and writes up the report - the witness statement thing.

He explained that as he can't see any other reports linked to me and this is a 'first offence', it's unlikely that I'll actually receive a letter, but having done some research on this forum, it seems a letter is always sent. Is that right? I suppose people aren't posting on here if they HAVEN'T received a formal investigation letter for prosecution, but still, I'm worried.

To complicate matters, I have recently moved address and in my panic, I gave my old address, and then didn't realise until I saw the receipt.

I explained this to him afterwards, and he said I could email to let them know of my correct address. He said it "may not be necessary, because they might not contact you" and I wouldn't want my email to prompt them to investigate me, if they otherwise wouldn't. Was he being honest about this, or was he just trying to keep me calm?

The other tricky thing is that if they were to investigate, they might spot some evidence of short ticketing which I have done for the past 6 months or so. They will see around 20 occasions in total. My ACTUAL journeys were from various stations, not always the same one, and I won't be able to remember where I actually started each one but they all look like suspicious single stop journeys where their data will show I've only tapped out (not in) just after having bought the ticket through my app.

And in those shorted journeys, I had started selecting a different railcard to the valid one I have, because it gives a greater discount. This was after accidentally selecting this wrong one and seeing that it gave a greater discount. And so I shamefully kept doing it when I was shorting. This will all be visible on my account (using different railcards for different journeys).

I know this is all so bad, and I know this now might now be my reckoning. I shouldn't have been doing this, and I absolutely have already learned my lesson. Because the stress and fear is HUGE.

Anyway, I started doing some research and have seen some evidence that pre-emptively emailing could be favourable. So I have drafted this email:

//

Email to: gtr.prosecutions@gtrailway.com

Inspector Witness Statement Receipt Number: [ref]

Hello,

I spoke to a ticket inspector while on the train on the morning of [date], because I had rushed to catch the train and only then had bought a ticket while on board.

The inspector advised me that it is my responsibility to book my ticket before embarking. This was a judgement error on my part, for which I sincerely apologise. I regret not purchasing the ticket before boarding, fully accept responsibility, and will ensure I purchase a ticket before I board the train in the future.

I'm emailing as I'm concerned that I might have given the wrong address to the inspector and that this could mean I won't receive your letter. Please can you make out correspondence to this address:

[correct address]

I would be grateful if you would allow me to pay any penalty fare, along with any administrative costs as I am keen to settle the matter without any court action, so wanted to email you now in case you do have the wrong address on your system.

Thank you for taking the time to consider my email, and once again my sincere apologies for my error, it most certainly will not happen again.

Kind regards

//

1. Is it worth sending this at all, or should I just wait to see if a letter is sent to my old address? (I can get my old neighbours to check for me)
2. If it is worth sending, how does it sound? I've read in these forums how to properly show contrition, and make clear this will not happen again, but any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
3. If they were to investigate, would they look back at previous journeys based on this instance? I'm not sure what the inspector would have put in the system, but the truth was I had purchased a ticket for the correct journey with a valid railcard, but only after the instance detailed above. Regardless, would they still look back at journey history?
SO
4. Is it even worth emailing them at all now with the above, because they might investigate my past journeys which I'm not mentioning there in my email? So they could see that as suspicious?

Thank you all for your help, I'm in a real panic here. I'm legitimately worried I will be prosecuted because I've done it multiple times, and I don't want to put my foot in it by making the wrong move right at the beginning!

Any and all help greatly appreciated, you lot are amazing.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I boarded a train at a station that didn't have barriers, hence I was able to get on the train without having yet bought my ticket.

The inspector came to check tickets and as I was buying it on my phone, my signal dipped out so it wasn't loading. I started to panic and told him that I had already bought it and scanned at the station (a panicked lie, which caused him to be suspicious I'm sure)

So I eventually buy the ticket on the app, he scans it, and can see I've literally just bought it. I apologised for lying, he seemed to appreciate this, and writes up the report - the witness statement thing.

He explained that as he can't see any other reports linked to me and this is a 'first offence', it's unlikely that I'll actually receive a letter, but having done some research on this forum, it seems a letter is always sent. Is that right? I suppose people aren't posting on here if they HAVEN'T received a formal investigation letter for prosecution, but still, I'm worried.

To complicate matters, I have recently moved address and in my panic, I gave my old address, and then didn't realise until I saw the receipt.

I explained this to him afterwards, and he said I could email to let them know of my correct address. He said it "may not be necessary, because they might not contact you" and I wouldn't want my email to prompt them to investigate me, if they otherwise wouldn't. Was he being honest about this, or was he just trying to keep me calm?

The other tricky thing is that if they were to investigate, they might spot some evidence of short ticketing which I have done for the past 6 months or so. They will see around 20 occasions in total. My ACTUAL journeys were from various stations, not always the same one, and I won't be able to remember where I actually started each one but they all look like suspicious single stop journeys where their data will show I've only tapped out (not in) just after having bought the ticket through my app.

And in those shorted journeys, I had started selecting a different railcard to the valid one I have, because it gives a greater discount. This was after accidentally selecting this wrong one and seeing that it gave a greater discount. And so I shamefully kept doing it when I was shorting. This will all be visible on my account (using different railcards for different journeys).

I know this is all so bad, and I know this now might now be my reckoning. I shouldn't have been doing this, and I absolutely have already learned my lesson. Because the stress and fear is HUGE.

Anyway, I started doing some research and have seen some evidence that pre-emptively emailing could be favourable. So I have drafted this email:

//

Email to: gtr.prosecutions@gtrailway.com

Inspector Witness Statement Receipt Number: [ref]

Hello,

I spoke to a ticket inspector while on the train on the morning of [date], because I had rushed to catch the train and only then had bought a ticket while on board.

The inspector advised me that it is my responsibility to book my ticket before embarking. This was a judgement error on my part, for which I sincerely apologise. I regret not purchasing the ticket before boarding, fully accept responsibility, and will ensure I purchase a ticket before I board the train in the future.

I'm emailing as I'm concerned that I might have given the wrong address to the inspector and that this could mean I won't receive your letter. Please can you make out correspondence to this address:

[correct address]

I would be grateful if you would allow me to pay any penalty fare, along with any administrative costs as I am keen to settle the matter without any court action, so wanted to email you now in case you do have the wrong address on your system.

Thank you for taking the time to consider my email, and once again my sincere apologies for my error, it most certainly will not happen again.

Kind regards

//

1. Is it worth sending this at all, or should I just wait to see if a letter is sent to my old address? (I can get my old neighbours to check for me)
2. If it is worth sending, how does it sound? I've read in these forums how to properly show contrition, and make clear this will not happen again, but any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
3. If they were to investigate, would they look back at previous journeys based on this instance? I'm not sure what the inspector would have put in the system, but the truth was I had purchased a ticket for the correct journey with a valid railcard, but only after the instance detailed above. Regardless, would they still look back at journey history?
SO
4. Is it even worth emailing them at all now with the above, because they might investigate my past journeys which I'm not mentioning there in my email? So they could see that as suspicious?

Thank you all for your help, I'm in a real panic here. I'm legitimately worried I will be prosecuted because I've done it multiple times, and I don't want to put my foot in it by making the wrong move right at the beginning!

Any and all help greatly appreciated, you lot are amazing.

Welcome to the forum.

For the moment, all you should do is update your address: there's a good chance that your old neighbours will pick everything up for you, but there's an even better chance that having things sent to your current address will reach you quicker.

And apart from that, for the moment, do nothing. There's two reasons for that
- until GTR get back to you, you don't know what they want to talk about. They will cope much better with a letter that actually replies to their questions
- as you will see when they write to you, the only thing they're prepared to accept at the email address is change of address details. They are sometimes more flexible when they've established correspondence with you, but not at this stage.

So using your words, you want to edit your letter down to:

//

Email to: gtr.prosecutions@gtrailway.com

Inspector Witness Statement Receipt Number: [ref]

Hello,


I'm emailing as I'm concerned that I might have given the wrong address to the inspector and that this could mean I won't receive your letter. Please can you make out correspondence to this address:

[correct address]


Kind regards

//

 

[RoFo3000]

Thank you.

Do you think it's worth even emailing at all? Because if what the inspector said is true, that they probably won't send me a letter as this is the first time, then I don't want me sending them an email to prompt them to then actually send me a letter.

I'm confident that my old neighbours will see the letter if it arrives, so do I just wait and see?

I appreciate your quick response so much, thank you!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Thank you.

Do you think it's worth even emailing at all? Because if what the inspector said is true, that they probably won't send me a letter as this is the first time, then I don't want me sending them an email to prompt them to then actually send me a letter.

I'm confident that my old neighbours will see the letter if it arrives, so do I just wait and see?

I appreciate your quick response so much, thank you!

While most people who contact us only do so after getting a first letter from the railway, my impression is that people who ask us before then invariably do get written to. So I think the inspector may have been being a little optimistic in suggesting that you might not get a letter - and in my view contacting them won't greatly increase the risk of them writing to you.

If they do write to you, and somehow you miss the letter, your lack of response will almost guarantee a prosecution. So that's a big downside to not emailing them to update your address.

I'd update your address if I were you.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you.

Do you think it's worth even emailing at all? Because if what the inspector said is true, that they probably won't send me a letter as this is the first time, then I don't want me sending them an email to prompt them to then actually send me a letter.

I'm confident that my old neighbours will see the letter if it arrives, so do I just wait and see?

I appreciate your quick response so much, thank you!

Yes. E mail them your correct address. You have nothing to
Lose by doing so. And all to gain.

Your old neighbours will be your backstop.

If you’ve been given a witness statement with a ref number you’re in their system. Very unlikely they will forget you. More likely you get taken to court without knowing about it instead, which is a whole lot of hassle to untangle if that happens. And will cost you more.

 

[ikcdab]

Others will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think an inspector on a train would be able to see if you had a previous offence. So if he said this, he was probably just trying to keep the situation calm. If he has written you up, then it's almost certain you will get a letter.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Others will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think an inspector on a train would be able to see if you had a previous offence. So if he said this, he was probably just trying to keep the situation calm. If he has written you up, then it's almost certain you will get a letter.

If details have previously been taken, they do flag up if entered again (or do on the machines our Revenue Managers use)

 

[z444z]

Thank you.

Do you think it's worth even emailing at all? Because if what the inspector said is true, that they probably won't send me a letter as this is the first time, then I don't want me sending them an email to prompt them to then actually send me a letter.

Speaking solely from experience of cases on this forum, if GTR issue a witness statement then a letter will follow (or court papers in rare cases where GTR are up against the prosecution deadline). From your description of events you have indeed committed an offence, and we regularly see GTR contacting people about singular first offences, I don't see any reason to think you won't be receiving a letter. It's essential that you respond to this letter promptly if you want to settle out of court, so it's in your interests to ensure it reaches you without delay.

I agree with the edits to your email in post #2, but additionally think "might have accidentally given my old address" reads better than "might have given the wrong address".

 

[RoFo3000]

Thank you everyone. I have emailed to make sure they have my correct address. Should I expect a response to confirm receipt?

And how long does it generally take for them to send the 'Intention to Prosecute' letter?

I've seen in some of these threads that it could be up to 6 months, which feels like a long time for this to be hanging over me.

My main aim is of course to cooperate with them, pay whatever fine is due, learn from my actions, and ensure this doesn't go to court. I understand that's usually the route they prefer to go down, is that right?

Thanks again all, any guidance (and hope) you can give is hugely appreciated.

 

[z444z]

Thank you everyone. I have emailed to make sure they have my correct address. Should I expect a response to confirm receipt?

I would think so yes.

And how long does it generally take for them to send the 'Intention to Prosecute' letter?

GTR seem to be around 3-4 months behind at the moment.

I've seen in some of these threads that it could be up to 6 months, which feels like a long time for this to be hanging over me.

Correct - it is a long time yes, but unless you want to pay a solicitor (some claim to and do seem to have the ability to fast-track cases with certain companies including GTR) roughly £1000 to do what you can very easily do yourself in a few months, there’s nothing you can do but wait.

My main aim is of course to cooperate with them, pay whatever fine is due, learn from my actions, and ensure this doesn't go to court.

Just to clarify, a fine is issued by a court following a conviction, you want an out-of-court settlement to resolve the matter, not a fine!

I understand that's usually the route they prefer to go down, is that right?

Generally if you respond to the initial letter appropriately then GTR are more than happy to settle, yes. If you responded really badly or not at all they do prosecute though.

 

[RoFo3000]

I would think so yes.

This is good news.

GTR seem to be around 3-4 months behind at the moment.

Correct - it is a long time yes, but unless you want to pay a solicitor (some claim to and do seem to have the ability to fast-track cases with certain companies including GTR) roughly £1000 to do what you can very easily do yourself in a few months, there’s nothing you can do but wait.

That is a very long time. Assuming a letter is inevitable, I was hoping within 14 days. I've also specified that I'm happy to receive correspondence via email, hoping maybe this could fast-track things, maybe.

Just to clarify, a fine is issued by a court following a conviction, you want an out-of-court settlement to resolve the matter, not a fine!

Generally if you respond to the initial letter appropriately then GTR are more than happy to settle, yes. If you responded really badly or not at all they do prosecute though.

Thank you for clarifying this. Then what I mean is *penalty fare + admin fees. Whatever it takes to avoid court prosecution stress.

I will return to this thread when I receive the letter to get help on how best to respond.

 

[z444z]

That is a very long time. Assuming a letter is inevitable, I was hoping within 14 days. I've also specified that I'm happy to receive correspondence via email, hoping maybe this could fast-track things, maybe.

Unfortunately it isn’t likely to.

Thank you for clarifying this. Then what I mean is *penalty fare + admin fees. Whatever it takes to avoid court prosecution stress.

Being pedantic again but penalty fares are a specific thing issued on the spot and never after the incident. You want to pay the fares owed and admin costs to settle out of court. They’re going to want the full Anytime fare for the journey, as well as for any previous evasion they detect (which based on what you’ve said will be none, just wanted to mention it for completeness!) and an admin fee of anywhere between £50 and £250. For a single incident though, GTR generally charge £50 admin fee, and never more than £150.

I will return to this thread when I receive the letter to get help on how best to respond.

Sounds like a good plan.